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Posted: 8/22/2002 10:51:05 AM EDT

Forgive my ignorance. just wondering what these guys are holding. thanks.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020822/capt.1030030284.afghanistan_police_academy_xkj101.jpg
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:52:56 AM EDT
that is the ubiquitous M3
also known as the "grease gun"
us made.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:55:18 AM EDT
9mm? i'm guessing.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:57:12 AM EDT
M3A1 Grease gun I think. It might also be .45
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:58:47 AM EDT
actually .45
used by the US during and slightly after WW2, slow rate of fire, and cheap to produce, although dependable.
from the swarthy look of those gentleman, i would ASSUME them to be from central america, and were prob supplied with the weapons from the US, ala the montagnards in VN.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:59:46 AM EDT
IIRC the US version was chamber in .45acp and used as a cheap alternative to the tompson, but the version supplied to are allies was 9mm to acomodate their stockpiles.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:03:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:03:50 AM EDT
armed scientist is right on all counts.

hey, BTW where did you get that pic, and where are they?
i've never seen the m3 in the hands of .......central american types....
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:04:50 AM EDT
How intresting....We are palming of our old M-3 Grease Guns To the Afghan Police?...Could it be because .45 is not all that easy to come by in sunny Afghanistan and it would make them dependant on us for Ammo....I'm sure there's a ton of 9mm and Russian caliber stuff floating around.....But .45 might be pretty scarce over there.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:17:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2002 11:17:51 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
The M3 SMG was nicknamed the 'grease gun' because of its shape, which looked remarkably like the tool used for injecting axle grease into the nipples of vehicles. It entered service with the US forces in 1942 and was produced in response to the need for a cheap, easily-mass-produced sub-machine-gun as the Thompson was quite an expensive weapon even in its M1A1 variant and quite complicated to make.



The example of the British Sten and German MP40 was taken as the starting point of what became the M3 submachine gun, a simple all-metal weapon designed for easy and cheap production. The M3 used die-stamping where possible and construction was all-metal, with most parts being simple steel stampings spot-welded into place. Only the barrel, the breech block and part of the trigger mechanism required any machining (see Technical Specifications).

Rushed into production early in 1942, it became clear that in spite of its simplicity the M3 had some design faults. The faults could be put down to the fact that manufacture was being undertaken by factories more used to making car and truck components. The cocking handles broke off, the wire stocks bent too easily and some important parts of the trigger mechanism broke because the metal they were made from was too soft. However, these could be lived with, and in service the weapon showed itself to be reasonably effective.

The biggest fault with the M3 was a result of its single-column magazine. As with the German MP40, this was prone to stoppages. A plastic cover managed to keep some of the dirt out of the magazine, but it was never totally satisfactory. Nevertheless, it worked well enough, and its cheapness and simplicity meant that it was the M3 rather than the Thompson which became the standard post-war US Army sub-machine gun.

Part of the design specification was for a gun that could be easily converted to take 9 mm ammunition, and this could be done by changing the barrel, bolt, magazine housing and magazine. The normal variant was for firing.45 in ACP ammunition. The M3 had an unusual, but fairly foolproof safety device. The ejection port cover was fitted with a projecting lug which, when the cover was closed, locked the bolt in either the cocked or battery position. To fire the weapon, the cover was opened.

Simple as the gun was to produce, it was decided in 1944 to make production even simpler. The M3A1 followed the same general pattern as the M3 but with one quite substantial change introduced as a result of combat experience: the ejection port was enlarged and exposed the full travel of the breech block. The complicated cocking mechanism of the M3 was simplified, replacing the cocking handle by a finger-hole in the breech block, into which the firer's finger was placed to draw the bolt to the rear, thereby cocking the weapon. A flash hider was added, together with a number of minor changes. The weapon could be easily disassembled by the ingenious use of some parts as tools to strip other parts.

The M3 is an extremely simple blowback weapon. There is no safety, fitted and the weapon only fires fully automatic. However, since the cyclic rate of fire is relatively low at 450-rounds per minute, this allowed the firer to control the movement of the gun when firing bursts and even to squeeze off single shots.. It fires the standard .45 ACP pistol cartridge (as used in the M1911A1) from a straight 30-round, single-column box magazine. There was provision in the original design for conversion to 9-mm Parabellum. This involved changing the barrel, breech block and magazine, all of which could be done without tools. A small number of weapons so converted appeared in Europe, but the vast majority of the 700,000 US-made M3s were in 45 calibre.

The receiver is of tubular pressed steel, with the single-column box magazine projecting downwards. The somewhat flimsy cocking handle is awkwardly located just forward of the trigger on the right-hand side. The bolt travels on guided rods within the receiver, doing away with the need for finishing the interior to any great extent. The cartridge ejection port has a hinged cover. The barrel screws directly into the receiver, and sights are rudimentary. There are no luxuries such as sling swivels, and the telescoping butt is simply a bent piece of wire.

It was a lighter weapon than the Thompson, weighing around 4.5 kg (9.9 lb) (depending on the variant) when fitted with full magazine, oil bottle and sling. It featured a retractable wire butt stock, similar to the MAT49, and measured 757 mm (29.8 in) with the stock extended and 579 mm (22.8 in) when it was retracted. The weapon was also made in the PRC as the Type 36 (.45) which incorporated many of its features.

from www.soft.net.uk/entrinet/us_weapons6.htm

Mike
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:23:27 AM EDT
hock.gif

yeah, what he said.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:25:05 AM EDT
Name that weapon? I shall name it...Dave.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:37:28 AM EDT
Looks more like on of the Czech made models. 30 or 32?

1000's made and distributed during the cold war throughout Latin America, Africa and E Europe.

The ejection port and receiver are wrong for a grease gun. Also the rear sight is too well made. You might also note the heavy set, well dressed gentleman in the tent behind the troops, my bet is he is an outsider, not from the West.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:51:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eswanson:
Name that weapon? I shall name it...Dave.



I got a chance to shoot "Dave" earlier this summer, and was quite impressed with the gun. Because of the slow cyclic rate, VERY easy to control. As for accuracy, I only shot it out to 10-12 yds, but it tended to make a lot of .45 holes right next ot each other.

As elegantly stated by Mr. Wilson], the safety was ingeniously simple.

IIRC, the mags were no fun to load, but were a blast to unload!

It is interesting that out of the subguns I've had a chance to shoot, I've probably enjoyed the Thompson and the M3 the most. Must be a .45 ACP thing.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 2:46:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gsc0527:
Looks more like on of the Czech made models. 30 or 32?

1000's made and distributed during the cold war throughout Latin America, Africa and E Europe.

The ejection port and receiver are wrong for a grease gun. Also the rear sight is too well made. You might also note the heavy set, well dressed gentleman in the tent behind the troops, my bet is he is an outsider, not from the West.



Like it has been repeated a number of times now, those ARE M3 .45 ACP submachineguns.

That picture was taken in Kabul today in the ceremony to reopen the National Police Academy.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 3:07:04 PM EDT
Actually.....the US military still has a number of m3....g3...whatever...in inventory.......who the hell are those guys anyway?......man...I`d hate to think of going to war with a m3.............
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 5:39:36 PM EDT
When I was in the US Army in the mid 1980's, the tankers were still using these.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 6:21:59 PM EDT
Definately M3-A1's. You can tell by the longer ejection port covers. Thanks for the excellent info Mr. Wilson.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 6:31:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Derek45:
When I was in the US Army in the mid 1980's, the tankers were still using these.



I was thinkin that, but doubting my memory! I've seen so many weapons its hard to recall where/when.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 12:00:45 PM EDT
If the first guy sneezes hard, he'll set off a chain reaction of blowing off the guys beard next to him,,,,
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 12:30:16 PM EDT
they also had or were working on a .45 to 9mm conversion kit so we could use captured ammo...
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 1:40:13 PM EDT
Mfg under contract with general motors.....maybe thats why it resembles a grease gun.............
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