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Posted: 8/6/2002 1:10:13 AM EDT
I am thinking(if it's legal) to turn my preban Remington 870 18 1/2" barrel into a short barrel/entry type shotgun. The same question applies to a preban AR? I'm sure this requires the federal tax stamp.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 7:38:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 7:42:15 AM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
File a Form 1 Tax Stamp ($200) along with fingerprints, photos, etc. like on a Form 4 and make it an AOW. Make AR15 an SBR.

Click link for form.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 8:05:22 AM EDT
M4, this is my understanding. You file the form 1(in duplicate) with associated fingerprint cards and photos(in duplicate), and register the weapon as an SBR/SBS. The any other weapon classification only applies if the shotgun is in pistol grip configuration.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 8:10:07 AM EDT

M4, this is my understanding. You file the form 1(in duplicate) with associated fingerprint cards and photos(in duplicate), and register the weapon as an SBR/SBS. The any other weapon classification only applies if the shotgun is in pistol grip configuration.

Hence the link to the form. The form explains all of this. There is no "SBS" designation on the form; only subgun, SBR, AOW, silencer, and DD. Use the information on the form, not someone's "understanding."
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 10:09:52 AM EDT
It would be cheaper the way you want to do it. Barrel + Tax Stamp. Alot cheaper then a complete entry gun.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 5:35:03 AM EDT
Sorry JD, but my understanding is taken from the BATF's NFA section:
(M1) The types of firearms that must be registered in the National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record are defined in the NFA and in 27 CFR Part 179. What are some examples? [Back]

Some examples of the types of firearms that must be registered are:
Machineguns;
The frames or receivers of machineguns;
Any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machineguns;
Any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machinegun;
Any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person;
Silencers and any part designed and intended for fabricating a silencer;
Short-barreled rifles;
Short-barreled shotguns;
Destructive devices; and,
"Any other weapons."

A few examples of destructive devices are:
Molotov cocktails;
Anti-tank guns (over caliber .50);
Bazookas; and,
Mortars.

A few examples of "any other weapon" are:
H& R Handyguns;
Ithaca Auto-Burglar guns;
Cane guns; and,
Gadget-type firearms and "pen" guns which fire fixed ammunition


Pay REAL close attention to the words "SHORT- BARRELED SHOTGUN", then bother to READ your form, and notice that what the gentleman who started this thread proposes to do does not fall into the category of "AOW".

And no, I don't give a $h!t what your pull down menu says.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 9:31:28 AM EDT

Pay REAL close attention to the words "SHORT- BARRELED SHOTGUN", then bother to READ your form, and notice that what the gentleman who started this thread proposes to do does not fall into the category of "AOW".

And no, I don't give a $h!t what your pull down menu says.


Little hint: it's not MY "pull down menu."

Are you a BATF NFA examiner? Probably not. Are you a BATF inspector? Probably not. Do you even own any NFA weapons? Again, a rhetorical probably not. If you were even remotely aware of NFA regulations (you're not), then you would know that the BATF changes things on filing statuses on a semi-regular basis.

Again, follow the form not someone's "understanding" for filing an NFA application. If you dispute this, Rabbit9, then by all means call the NFA Branch at (202) 927-8330 and ask for a clarification. If you do, post the examiner's name with whom you speak. We'll see who's full of shit.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 12:50:45 PM EDT
Yeah JD, your a genius, your right on the first two counts; I have no affiliation with the BATF. And although my small collection contains only (4) NFA registered items (one of them an SBR), I'm positive I cannot hold a candle to your vast knowledge of the NFA. The latest NFA item I acquired was picked up a few minutes ago @ my local CLASS II. I posed him the same question that was first asked; ANSWER: Register as a SBS.

But then again, he probably doesn't know what he's talking about either. Until they change the CFR, I'll just have to go with that, and stick to my original answer.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 1:04:59 PM EDT

Yeah JD, your[SIC] a genius, your[SIC] right on the first two counts; I have no affiliation with the BATF. And although my small collection contains only (4) NFA registered items (one of them an SBR), I'm positive I cannot hold a candle to your vast knowledge of the NFA. The latest NFA item I acquired was picked up a few minutes ago @ my local CLASS II. I posed him the same question that was first asked; ANSWER: Register as a SBS.

But then again, he probably doesn't know what he's talking about either. Until they change the CFR, I'll just have to go with that, and stick to my original answer.


Boy, that's witty post. And did the Form 1 offer SBS as an option? Didn't think so. Did your little cut-and-paste from the BATF's website SPECIFICALLY say that an AOW HAD TO HAVE a pistol grip? Didn't think so either. Call the NFA and ask them what they say and again, post the examiner's name. Like I said, we'll see who's full of shit.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 7:40:29 PM EDT
JD,
That .PDF form was created by the owner of Title II.com. When you get the paper form (ie: from the ATF) it will more then likely be a blank box and you add your info; such as SBS, SBR, suppressor, etc.... also I don't think you can register machineguns on Form 1's anymore that should be done on a Form 2.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 8:12:19 PM EDT

That .PDF form was created by the owner of Title II.com.

It's the same Form 1 that's available from any BATF office. Daniel Brewster, the 'site owner, is a pretty damned salty dog where this NFA stuff is concerned. However, I don't think it'll mean a whole helluva lot of difference what you fill in the box (SBR, SBS, or AOW) as long as the BATF gets their money. People can argue the semantical differences in an SBR, SBS, and an AOW. BFD. Has ANYONE noticed that the BATF is now differentiating between a submachine gun and machine gun on some forms? Probably not, because it always comes back to someone's ego and, "My dealer said." Little tip: your dealer ain't the person signing off on the Form 4s in D.C.



I don't think you can register machineguns on Form 1's anymore that should be done on a Form 2.

That's beyond my realm. Anything I buy has to be on a Form 3, Form 4, or Form 5.


You all can debate what makes an AOW until doomsday. Right now, which is what I'm concerned with, I'm going to do whatever in the hell gets my forms approved. I've followed the instructions on the BATF forms provided by danbrew and they've been approved. 'Nuff said.
Link Posted: 8/10/2002 9:07:38 PM EDT
It depends on what the base gun was registered as when it was manufactured. If it started life as a shotgun, it can be made into a short barrel shotgun with a Form 1 (you cut the barrel and "manufacture" the SBS) or with a Form 4 (you buy a short barrel and put it on the gun). Add a pistol grip or whatever & it's still a SBS. The tax is $200.

If, on the other hand, when the gun was manufactured, it did not have a stock and was listed by the manufacturer as Any Other Weapon, then it is an AOW you can purchase with a Form 4. The tax is $5. An example is the Remington 870 Secret Service 12 ga I just bought. It was made with only a pistol grip, not a stock and therefore does not meet the definition of a shotgun (see the big BATF book that describes the Title I, Title II, Title III, etc. weapons). Tax savings of $195. Still takes CLEO sig & 3 months at the BATF, etc, etc.

Plus you get to mess with people. When they say "cool shotgun", I tell them it's not a shotgun and they get all confused!
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