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Posted: 7/14/2002 5:23:42 PM EDT
Yes, its ok to start flames sometimes.
I will replace the carry handle with optics.
Ether break will have to be replaced with one from Kurts Custom cause they both suck, and he is local.
The Post ban fake stock will be replaced with an A1 unit.
It seems the Colt will have better resale.
Colt did sell us out, but they seem to be coming around.
Not sure about the 1 in 7 twist on the Colt barrel?
The Colt says M4 "thats cool"!!!!
Bushmaster sounds like it has better barrels?
Any input will be apreciated, exspecially if you own both, are an armorer or a gunsmith.
Are you there Kurt???
Thanks
Link Posted: 7/14/2002 6:50:03 PM EDT
I wouldn't have use for a 1:7 barrel and would rather have a 1:9 but that's easy enough to change out for some bucks.

You neglected to say whether they were chrome lined and what you want to do with the rifles. I wouldn't buy a rifle to be cool. You'll want a chrome lined barrel for a social carbine. For a plinker get whatever you care for.

Colt's will always sell for more just for the name more than anything.

I'm neither an armorer or a gunsmith - just a RKI with a few rifles.
Link Posted: 7/14/2002 7:35:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2002 7:36:45 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Bushmaster because Colt is overpriced IMO, and doesn't use the standard fire contol pins(the second point is more important then the first).


So basically even if they were the same price I wouldn't buy the Colt because of the parts differences.
Link Posted: 7/14/2002 10:28:43 PM EDT
The Colt. Fewer problems, more value, better accuracy all things being equal.
Link Posted: 7/14/2002 10:59:15 PM EDT
Im a Bushmaster guy, but if they are the same Price I would go with the Colt, I like the new Colt M4's. Plus it would be cool to have an M4 that says M4 on it. the Bushy should be 100-$200 cheaper.

I paid $800 for my bushy M4-A3 with the detach, carry handle and the fake telestock, I think the Colts are more like a grand.
Link Posted: 7/14/2002 11:53:41 PM EDT
$875 Bushmaster M4
$950 Colt M4
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 7:29:55 AM EDT
I'm a Bushmaster fan, but I'm really considering purchasing the new Colt post-ban M-4. If that helps you out with anything?

Is this going to be your only AR, or is it going to be another addition to your collection?
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 7:44:02 AM EDT
If it were to be a Pre-ban, I would say Colt, because of the "Name" factor and the fact that it would be closer to an M4. Since you are going with a Post-ban, I would have to say Bushmaster. Post-ban resale seems to be the same for both...you loose your shirt because most folks will only pay premium for Pre-ban. Bushmaster is better for spare/replacement parts. Bushmaster sells to the general public and they are GREAT with shipping just call first to make sure the part is IN stock. Colt no longer sells complete arems OR parts to the general public. They have a new guy in charge...former Marine I think, and he is running it like a Military Supply Co. They will only sell to distributors...including parts! So, long thread shortened...PRE=Colt, POST=Bushy. That's my .02 worth.
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 1:09:03 PM EDT
Well, probably to no one's surprise, I'd go with the Colt.

Keep in mind that I have yet to examine either specimen, but some features to consider are:

A. M4 enhanced feed ramps. The Colt likely has them, the Bushmaster does not.

B. M4 double lined handguards. The Colt likely has them, the Bushmaster does not.

C. M4 side sling mount. The Colt likely has it, the Bushmaster does not.

I would also want to know if the Colt has a chrome lined chamber and barrel. If they are using contract overrun barrels, they would likely be chrome lined. This alone would not be a make-or-break issue, but it would be a minor factor and I would want to know before purchasing.

A post-ban Colt still retains it's value better than a post-ban Bushmaster. Just look through the Exchange Forum for evidence of that. Monkeying around with it and swapping parts may negatively affect resale value, however.

As has been said, a Colt or any AR15 that says "M4" on the side is certainly desireable and, depending on how many are eventually produced, future laws, etc, may even eventually attain some degree of collectability.

As far as the barrel twist rate, most shooters will never notice a difference between 1/7 and 1/9 twist rates. If you are the type of shooter who sits at a bench and expects to shoot teenie tiny groups on paper targets, then you will better off with a 1/8 or 1/9 barrel twist rate. For drilling pop cans, steel plates, etc. out to several hundred yards, either 1/7 or 1/9 will be suitable. 1/7 works great for me.

Lastly, a simple perusal of the forums would unquestionably indicate that Bushmaster rifles are plagued with considerably more quality control problems. Why they can't get a handle on some of their long running problems is beyond me. Colt certainly is not perfect, but you're far more likely to get from them a product who's fit, finish, functional performance, and reliability are second to none.

All of which adds up to the extra $75 for the Colt being money extremely well spent. Upgrading the Bushmaster with the side sling mount and true M4 handguards alone would cast more than that. The rest is just a very thick layer of icing on the cake.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 7:58:11 AM EDT
Boomer, what QC problems has Bushy had? I have not seen them on my L.E. M4. The only thing that I can say that I was disappointed with, was the inside of the carry handle. It was a little rough to say the least.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 12:10:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Boomer, what QC problems has Bushy had? I have not seen them on my L.E. M4. The only thing that I can say that I was disappointed with, was the inside of the carry handle. It was a little rough to say the least.



They have a long running problem with improperly indexed barrels that necessitates excessive windage to zero the rifle and a trip back to Bushmaster to correct. There are also commonly reported problems with the color of the finish, a host of functional problems, and there was a recent report of a new Bushmaster barrel with dangerous grossly oversized chamber.

None of which is to say that every rifle Bushmaster turns out is a problematic pile of crap. Just that one is much more likely to suffer problems with a Bushmaster product than with those of their main competitor.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 2:35:56 PM EDT
COLT
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 3:29:39 PM EDT
Outside of the feedramps, they're equals.

I like both, but my next post-ban AR will be the new Colt M4.....even though the muzzle brake sucks.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 3:32:34 PM EDT
BTW....my Bushie M4's, w/out the feedramps have never so much as caused a burp shooting anything I feed'em. That and Bushie customer service is fantastic....Colt's.....well......aint that great.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 3:41:40 PM EDT
Colt...
Their bolts don't break.
Do a search and see.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 6:47:24 PM EDT
Thanks Boomer, I had always heard of the purple thing but nothing that you had mentioned.I don't doubt your word but do you think it is more than just the occassional slip through that ALL manufacturers have, including Colt?
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 7:26:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Colt...
Their bolts don't break.
Do a search and see.



Can't tell you how many Bushmasters I've owned/shot/had friends who've owned.....never once a single bolt breaking.....or for that matter anything else.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 5:10:13 PM EDT
If I was investing, COLT
If I wanted to shoot it, Bushmaster
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 5:24:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4:

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Colt...
Their bolts don't break.
Do a search and see.



Can't tell you how many Bushmasters I've owned/shot/had friends who've owned.....never once a single bolt breaking.....or for that matter anything else.



I agree with M4 on this, of the many bushys I have owned and those I still own I have not had any problems with them. However, I can also say the same for my Colts.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:00:27 PM EDT
They may be coming around but they still come with the larger pins for the fire control parts, that is enough for me never to buy one of their rifles IMO.

You have to buy whatever one you like best.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:07:35 PM EDT
The fit and finish on my MT6400C is much better than my Bushmaster. (Read purple). If you want a rifle with a 16" barrel buy a Bushmaster; if you want an M-4, buy the Colt.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:22:13 PM EDT
I just couldn't bring myself to pay extra for a rifle that probably doesn't have a chromed barrel and definitely has at least one off-sized or non-standard part.

I might be convinced to pay less, but not more.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:29:51 PM EDT
Bushmasters are made so that their internal parts are as close to Mil-Spec as they can be and still be legal. But, 1:7 twist on the M4 is mil-spec, 1:9 is not. But the only advantage you get out of a 1:7 is that it stabilizes tracer rounds. (not exactly a big issue)
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:31:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Boomer, what QC problems has Bushy had? I have not seen them on my L.E. M4. The only thing that I can say that I was disappointed with, was the inside of the carry handle. It was a little rough to say the least.



I've had no problem with that. May be a manufacturing defect.
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