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Posted: 7/12/2002 7:47:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 6:20:49 AM EDT by Rickus]
I recently purchased a like new in the box pre-ban Eagle M4C Carbine. Several items have come to my attention. The hammer pin walked out on me at the range and upon review I noticed the the J pin was missing. I then noticed that the forward assist did not engage the bolt. I thought that the pawl had broken off, I did not look that closely so I ordered a new forward assist from Bushmaster. I replaced the forward assist and it still didn't engage. It turns out the forward assist pin must be drilled to far to the rear or the upper is manufactured incorrectly. What Gives? Has anyone else encountered this before?

I can't believe it left the factory like this!!
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 8:49:05 PM EDT
No flame intended, but Eagle Arms was purchased by Mark Westrom in January of 1994, the AW ban was September 13, 1994, and if memory serves, Westrom acquired the 'ArmaLite' trademark at the end of '94. 'ArmaLite' has nothing to do with that rifle... Your thread title is a bit misleading... How is the lower marked? 'Coal Valley, IL'?
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 9:36:05 PM EDT
Armalite is releasing some of these new preban Eagles all the time. Workmanship is slipping. Send it back they have great warranty service because they get so much practice fixing production mistakes.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 10:41:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TommyBrown:
Armalite is releasing some of these new preban Eagles all the time.



Who is ArmaLite releasing preban Eagles to ??

I'd like to get a couple.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 10:52:48 PM EDT
I got a brand new AR-10 couple years ago. While cleaning it after some of the break in rounds my cleaning cloth managed to snap the bolt release thumb pad off. I was shocked to say the least. Called armalite and they sent a new one to me quick,fast and in a hurry. Overall I like the gun but other then the fast mail time for the part I dislike this company.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 4:22:17 AM EDT
Darkstar...Tommybrown is correct. This is a preban rifle that left the factory after the ban. The rifle is marked Coal Valley.

Armalite explained to me that all the ATF had to do was to verify that all the components were together for the rifle to be preban. This is my 2nd preban released by them in this manner. So this rifle went out the door and should have been inspected by the QC people of Armalite.I got this one used. Do you think that they will have a look at it?

I still have the email somewhere. Oh, and I asked them about selling one of the prebans they have at their plant and they told me they were saving them for a rainy day. No lie

Link Posted: 7/13/2002 4:44:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 4:47:40 AM EDT by ED_P]
Rickus,

Don't be dismayed, regardless of the name, all
manufacturers make guns that need to go back after they really get put through their paces the first time, though it is dissapointing to us consumers...

I had to have my new Bushmaster 20" back at Bushmaster, getting the sights reindexed, as they were all the way over to the right when zeroed, and noticed soot all around where my gas tube goes into the front sight, which might explain why I was having trouble getting lower powered commerical ammo to cycle without a jam every 3-4 rounds.

Link Posted: 7/13/2002 5:28:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chavr:
Overall I like the gun but other then the fast mail time for the part I dislike this company.



Why would you dislike the company for fast service on a defective part. Would you dislike the company that made your car if your car had a cracked windshield.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 5:36:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 5:57:29 AM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By QCMGR:

Originally Posted By chavr:
Overall I like the gun but other then the fast mail time for the part I dislike this company.



Why would you dislike the company for fast service on a defective part. Would you dislike the company that made your car if your car had a cracked windshield.

Yeah, I thought his statement made no sense also. You like the gun, you got the replacement for a one broken part quickly, yet you don't like the company. Huh?


Originally posted by Rickus:
I can't believe it left the factory like this!!

Maybe it didn't. Since you aren't the original owner of the gun, who is to say that the original owner didn't dissamble the gun and not reassemble it correctly? Who is to say the upper is even the one that came on it? Who is to say that the original owner didn't leave the J pin out when he reassembled it? Not saying this is the case, but it can't be ruled out. I have two of those that were released after the ban and have had NO problems whatsoever.

As for them saving them for a rainy day, it's up to them, not you, as to when they will release them.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 5:47:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TommyBrown:
Armalite is releasing some of these new preban Eagles all the time. Workmanship is slipping. Send it back they have great warranty service because they get so much practice fixing production mistakes.

How is workmanship slipping. These rifles were produced prior to Sept 1994. If there were workmanship problems, they have been corrected, they have not slipped. I personally have never had a problem with a preban Eagle Arms, postban Eagle Arms, or postban ArmaLites. I have also had no problems with my preban ArmaLites, but that is a different story as that was the original ArmaLite and the preban ArmaLites I had were made in the 70's.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 5:49:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By TommyBrown:
Armalite is releasing some of these new preban Eagles all the time.



Who is ArmaLite releasing preban Eagles to ??

I'd like to get a couple.

Sub, who is your dealer? Get him to find out from them when they are going to do it again and tell him you want one when they do. My dealer knew that I knew they existed and called me one day after ArmaLite called him and asked me if I wanted one. Of course, I said yes.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 6:03:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 6:13:26 AM EDT by Rickus]
Larry...This is a QC issue. It should have never left the plant.It is an Eagle Upper, the rear site is marked as such. I will tell you this, that it is the best fitting upper/lower combo I have seen to date. I replaced the forward assist with a new one and it still doesn't reach the BC

Hey how much did you pay for the NIB Preban? Is it an M4C?

Rick
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 6:13:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 6:23:21 AM EDT by DarkStar]
Rickus... as I said, no flame intended... if indeed ArmaLite is releasing preban rifles from their 'stash', I was unaware of that and I stand corrected! It that is true, acquiring one of these new old rifles has just moved to the top of my want list...

ArmaLite has the best customer service going... talk to them, they'll make it right!

edited 'cause my 'puter still can't type...
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 6:14:29 AM EDT
Star...no offense taken
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 6:18:12 AM EDT
What I don't like about this rifle is the barrel assembly. The front site is cast. My first site is forged, and I don't understand why there would be a difference.Also the barrel has no markings. The first one has stampings the second later # does not.

Link Posted: 7/13/2002 6:25:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 6:29:44 AM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By Rickus:
What I don't like about this rifle is the barrel assembly. The front site is cast. My first site is forged, and I don't understand why there would be a difference.Also the barrel has no markings. The first one has stampings the second later # does not.


Everything you say about this rifle makes me more convinced that the upper is not the one that came on the rifle. That someone took that upper and sold it or used it on another rifle and replaced it with a frankenstein upper and dicked around with the lower. Even if it has the white eagle stamp, it does not preclude someone doing these things and what you have may not be as it came. The white eagle stamp would only be on prebans released in the last few years. Any prebans released prior to the ban would not have the stamp whether they were complete rifles or just the lower.

As for your question in a previous post in this thread, I gave $1500 each for the M4C NIB from the factory. Given that I have two of these NIBs, I will say that they had identical sights, unlike yours, the barrels are identical, etc. I did not get mine at the same time, but everything about the two are identical.

Not flaming you, but it sounds more and more that this rifle is not as it came from the factory. Did your first one have the 4.33 flashhider or an A2? Which does this one have.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 6:45:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rickus:
Larry...This is a QC issue.



Except for the following:

If I sold you a brand new 1979 Corvette with zero miles, it would not represent Plant quality "today". If you are not the original owner, you have lost traceability. One can only guess what is original. Bottom line is you have a used gun and like a used car it's condition is going to be unknown until you establish a baseline. I would tend to agree with LARRYG that this rifle is not as it came from the factory.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 6:57:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 6:59:27 AM EDT by Rickus]
Larry,

I almost certain this is the factory upper. I have the box, the manual,it has the white stamp, it has the "eagle arms" stamped on the rear site. Why would someone replace a rear site?

They are both M4C's with the "slip over type" faux large flash suppressor, not the A2. How many manufacturers out there made this type barrel and hider setup? I have the original documentation in the box that states that the hider is not removable.

Well, you guys are in denial that possibly Armalite released something that was not right.Any factory manufacturing anything anywhere has QC issues. I don't know for sure if it is 100% factory but i would say I am 99% sure that it is.

Hopefully Armalite will have a look at it.

Link Posted: 7/13/2002 7:06:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2002 7:09:25 AM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By Rickus:
Larry,

I almost certain this is the factory upper. I have the box, the manual,it has the white stamp, it has the "eagle arms" stamped on the rear site. Why would someone replace a rear site?

They are both M4C's with the "slip over type" faux large flash suppressor, not the A2. How many manufacturers out there made this type barrel and hider setup? I have the original documentation in the box that states that the hider is not removable.

Well, you guys are in denial that possibly Armalite released something that was not right.Any factory manufacturing anything anywhere has QC issues. I don't know for sure if it is 100% factory but i would say I am 99% sure that it is.

Hopefully Armalite will have a look at it.


The stamp doesn't mean someone dicked around with the upper. As for the rear sights being stamped, my sights aren't stamped with anything. It also doesn't mean that someone didn't swap the sights and barrel onto a BS upper.

Maybe you are in denial about the other possibilities, as this just doesn't sound like something produced by Eagle Arms then or ArmaLite now. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 7:11:40 AM EDT
Isn't that Da Nile?

Anyway both of the site adjustment knobs are stamped eagle arms.

Rick
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 10:15:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rickus:
I almost certain this is the factory upper. I have the box, the manual,it has the white stamp, it has the "eagle arms" stamped on the rear site.



Just like mine.

I bought an Preban Eagle Arms M4C sometime around 1996. Mine had failures to extract with most 5.56mm ammo. Rather than shoot only Federal American Eagle ammo through it, I had Bushmaster rebarel it with a 16" M4 Brl. I also removed the Aluminum collaspable stock and installed the new RRA type 6-pos stock. I'm very happy with the end result.

I was even able to sell the POS Eagle Arms Brl for $50.00 here.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 11:10:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rickus:

Any factory manufacturing anything anywhere has QC issues. I don't know for sure if it is 100% factory but i would say I am 99% sure that it is.

Hopefully Armalite will have a look at it.




Rickus,
you're correct in your statement above. If it's made by man we'll manage to screw up a few.

ArmaLite will have a look at your rifle I'm sure.

Thanks for your post as I didn't have a clue ArmaLite still had some Eagles left. Without your post I'd have missed out. I'm not going to order one until Monday morning !!

Link Posted: 7/13/2002 11:12:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By TommyBrown:
Armalite is releasing some of these new preban Eagles all the time.



Who is ArmaLite releasing preban Eagles to ??

I'd like to get a couple.

Sub, who is your dealer? Get him to find out from them when they are going to do it again and tell him you want one when they do. My dealer knew that I knew they existed and called me one day after ArmaLite called him and asked me if I wanted one. Of course, I said yes.



LARRYG,
thanks and I'll be on this deal Monday.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 2:04:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rickus:

They are both M4C's with the "slip over type" faux large flash suppressor, not the A2. How many manufacturers out there made this type barrel and hider setup? I have the original documentation in the box that states that the hider is not removable.




Maybe this is a dumb question but why does a preban have a fake FS?
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 2:27:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By TommyBrown:
Armalite is releasing some of these new preban Eagles all the time.



Who is ArmaLite releasing preban Eagles to ??

I'd like to get a couple.

Sub, who is your dealer? Get him to find out from them when they are going to do it again and tell him you want one when they do. My dealer knew that I knew they existed and called me one day after ArmaLite called him and asked me if I wanted one. Of course, I said yes.



LARRYG,
thanks and I'll be on this deal Monday.

He probably won't be able to order you one, per se. Just make him aware that the next time they let him know that they are releasing a batch, that you want one.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 2:27:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By Rickus:

They are both M4C's with the "slip over type" faux large flash suppressor, not the A2. How many manufacturers out there made this type barrel and hider setup? I have the original documentation in the box that states that the hider is not removable.




Maybe this is a dumb question but why does a preban have a fake FS?



Hmmmmmmmm
Unnnnn
UmmmUhh
I don't know ! (I'm gonna bet you passed reading comprehension though.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 4:32:40 PM EDT
I have seen a lot of kit guns marketed as orginals. Some with factory boxes and paper work. That is why at gun shows, some dealers will sell factory guns without the stuff for a slightly reduced price. They use the boxes and stuff later to sell made up guns. You can see this at Tulsa at any time. I never had good luck with anything but Colt. But look em over.
Link Posted: 7/13/2002 4:49:38 PM EDT
Armalite will straighten out the problem with no b-s.......deal with them!.......
Link Posted: 7/14/2002 6:04:40 AM EDT
dirfire

How could they sell a rifle box with a different serial number than the rifle in the box? That is what you are saying ....right?
Link Posted: 7/14/2002 1:50:40 PM EDT
Hey LarryG...Check out the GunBroker Link to the rifle in question.

www.gunbroker.com/auction/viewitem.asp?item=3888414

Rick
Link Posted: 7/14/2002 2:31:53 PM EDT
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