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Posted: 6/26/2002 4:14:01 PM EDT
I just talked to a rep who told me that UPS no longer allows non-FFLs to ship firearms. It does not matter if you are shipping to an FFL either. I read their rules online and that's what they say. See: www.ups.com/using/services/details/firearms.html

Quote:
Firearm shippers shipping through a UPS Customer Counter must have a letter on record with UPS stating their status as an authorized firearm shipper.

Does anyone know who will let me ship a rifle to an FFL?
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 4:30:12 PM EDT
I would ship it anyway, just make sure it is packed and labeled well with no outside indication of contents. Oh and make the recievers address ambiguous enough to avoid suspition. Its only there policy, not law, the worst they can do is not ship it.
BrenLover
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 5:24:08 PM EDT
They do ship Firearm Parts. I seperate mine for transit and call it firearm parts. Besides they will never know that all the parts equals one gun.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 5:31:24 PM EDT
The hell with them. Do not support them. Ship it USPS.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 5:44:13 PM EDT
I just shipped a lower receiver and and other firearm parts via UPS to Lauer Customs on monday. I went out of my way to tell the UPS person on the phone that the PACKAGE CONTAINED A LOWER RECEIVER DEEMED BY THE BATF TO BE A FIREARM along with other firearm parts. The answer I got from the customer service rep (after checking with her supervisor) was that UPS does ship firearms under the following conditions: 1) they are unloaded and rendered safe, 2) they are being shipped to a manufacturer for repair or refinishing, 3) and there is no marking on the package designating it as a firearm. From that explination, it seems to me that us mere mortals (non FFL holders) can use UPS to ship firearms back to the manufacturers or other refinishers, but to transport a firearm to anyone else it must go from an FFL to another FFL. That makes sense as to do otherwise violates several laws and I think UPS just wants to be left out of the loop in case of litigation.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 5:56:58 PM EDT
So, what makes you an 'authorized firearms shipper'? By law, as I understand it, that's every one of us...

I say avoid the whole stinking mess and go USPS. They have next day air as well as all the other options. They have more locations. And they tend to be cheaper.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 6:13:51 PM EDT
Fedex and AIrborne won't either.

I checked with them this week.

Link Posted: 6/26/2002 6:21:47 PM EDT
i had the same experience. I shipped a blackpowder revolver a month ago, then ups called me a few days later regarding their policy to not ship any handgun. I explained to him carefully blackpowder revolver is not a handgun per batf rules, but he didnt understand a bit about what is a gun and whats not. I was tired arguing so i took it back the day after and sent it priority mail.. no problem with usps as always..
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 6:23:33 PM EDT
Don't ask...don't tell...don't declare. Long as your not breaking any laws...
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 6:25:49 PM EDT
Actually, you are breaking laws, I think. Doesn't the GCA require you to declare the firearm to a common carrier? Legal eagles?

Also, you use Fedex ground. I believe that is still allowed.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 6:34:00 PM EDT
I believe they are trying to tell you that your firearms might not reach their destination if they have any marking stating that there is a firearm in side the package being handle by their "package handlers"
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 7:10:54 PM EDT
I would be careful about the taking the "just ship it and don't tell them" advice.

I don't know of common carriers, but I do know that if you ship long guns by Post Office, you ARE REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to inform them that there is a firearm inside.

However, both you and the Post Office are forbidden (again by Federal Law) to mark the package as in any way to indicate it contains a firearm. So I wouldn't worry to much about theft.

I do agree that for a long gun, it is MUCH easier to ship USPS, but you might want to check the Domestic Mail Manual online and find the relavant sections, since I've found that the employees aren't often sure, and it helps to be able to tell them where to look it up.

Link Posted: 6/26/2002 7:47:21 PM EDT
I wonder when their policy changed. I shipped my HK USP 40 back to the factory to have some work done on it recently. I shipped it UPS myself (I don't have an FFL) without any difficulty.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 9:14:18 PM EDT
I recently shipped a .45 to a gunsmith by Fedx. They never asked what was in the package and I didn't tell them. When I got home I saw a spot on my copy of the recipt that was to be checked if there was anything dangerous in the package. I figured since there was no ammo it wasn't dangerous.
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 4:33:54 AM EDT
I have recently shipped three handguns to various location in the US. I do not have an FFL.
I previously used UPS but the local depot has hours designed to deter business because they actually want to close it to walk in business.

I used FedEx and was pleasantly pleased with the service that I received compared to UPS.

They require that firearms be shipped FedEx Priority Overnight. You are required to tell them that you are shipping a firearm and the firearm must be rendered inoperable. They also require that the outside of the package NOT be labeled indicating the package contains a firearm.

I just took the barrel out and put it in the same package. No problem as far as FedEx was concerned. The package can not contain a completely assembled, useable weapon.

I think FedEx is actually cheaper than UPS also. I do know that their service is a hell of a lot friendlier.

For those here and other boards that feel the "don't ask, don't tell rule" is the way to go when shipping firearms, just think about the shipment being lost or stolen and what you might have to go thru to make a claim on it.

I've read where guys who do not have an FFL will ship a handgun via USPS and just take their chances because it's cheaper and more convenient. This is illegal and again, the claim process IF the shipment is lost or stolen will definitely be under question and investigation. I have checked on this with my local carrier who is very knowledgeable in regard to USPS rules/regs and has nothing against firearms.
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 6:00:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2002 6:02:17 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]
Federal law does not require you to notify a carrier that a package contains a firearm as long as you are shipping to an FFL holder. Notification is only required when shipping to a nonlicensee. FedEx and UPS company policies require notification so not telling them will make it very hard, if not impossible, to pursue any insurance claims if it became necessary.

Postal regulations require you to certify or demonstrate that any firearms are unloaded and that there is no ammunition in the package. Nonlicensees can only mail rifles and shotguns. Dealers can mail handguns but have to fill out a special form when doing so.
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 6:25:41 AM EDT
Ok. So what's the implication of this thread? When Fedex tightens it rules, there will be NO way to ship firearms. Are firearms that much more dangerous or risky to ship than jewelery? Money? Electronics?

It seems like a political agenda being played in a bothersome way.
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 7:43:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
Federal law does not require you to notify a carrier that a package contains a firearm as long as you are shipping to an FFL holder. Notification is only required when shipping to a nonlicensee. FedEx and UPS company policies require notification so not telling them will make it very hard, if not impossible, to pursue any insurance claims if it became necessary.



Wrong...you have to declare the package as a firearm regardless of where it's going...following from the atf website...

B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? [Back]


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be
used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract
carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]




Postal regulations require you to certify or demonstrate that any firearms are unloaded and that there is no ammunition in the package. Nonlicensees can only mail rifles and shotguns. Dealers can mail handguns but have to fill out a special form when doing so.


Correct.

Whether or not a common carrier allows firearms is up to them, and local policy might agree with corporate policy as there are idiots all over the place.

-hanko
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 7:43:15 AM EDT

FedEx and UPS company policies require notification so not telling them will make it very hard, if not impossible, to pursue any insurance claims if it became necessary.


My point exactly.

As long as FedEx will accept the firearms that I need to ship with a smile and are helpful in doing so, I'll tell them exactly what is in the box everytime.

My previous UPS route guy, a gun owner, told me that UPS didn't want the hassle of dealing with firearms and hence, the tighter restrictions hoping that we would go elsewhere to ship them.

When I asked him about the internal thefts he said that by making it harder for shippers and having them go to FedEx, etc., the internal thefts would stop or at least slow down.
I guess that's UPS's "pro-active" way of dealing with internal problems.

One other thing that I have found is that the understanding of UPS rules varies from depot to depot. They will argue a point even when shown their own policy in writing.

Go FedEx and eliminate the hassles of the AH's at UPS.
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 8:53:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2002 8:56:01 AM EDT by Meat-man]
Why bother with UPS. ship it USPS and insure it adequately and you are on your merry way.

The few guns i have shipped were by USPS and not a lick of problem,even told them it was a firearm.

BTW are these the beutiful Fal's you had for sale?
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 9:02:33 AM EDT
Luckly, for those of us that have accounts with UPS, the drivers don't really care. I just shipped a rifle back to a manufacturer UPS ground. I took the bolt out and had it seperate, and told the driver it was an unassembled rifle. (there, BATF FAGS, I TOLD THEM). He said "Ok" and put it in the truck next to the stack of other packages he was picking up. . . . took 2 days to reach it's destination going UPS ground, and cost $8 including the insurance.

This was about 1 month ago. Thanks God for giving people (the driver) the ability to use thier own common sence, and for giving me the oppertunity to not deal with corprate A-holes.

-Justin
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 11:43:28 AM EDT
I shipped my rifle out via FedEx today. The lady at the counter only wanted to know if either the shipper or the recipient was a dealer. I showed her the recipient's FFL and all was well, no hassles. I guess FedEx still wants our business. UPS can bite me!
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 1:04:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kentstate4:
I believe they are trying to tell you that your firearms might not reach their destination if they have any marking stating that there is a firearm in side the package being handle by their "package handlers"



for once you may have said something that makes some sense
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 4:48:16 PM EDT
hanko,

I say again that notification is not required unless you are shipping to a nonlicensee. I have 2 letters from BATF HQ confirming this and admitting that the FAQ you quoted is not completely accurate. Check the regulation at 29CFR178.31a. (page 50 of the "Green Book")
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