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Posted: 5/11/2002 3:49:01 AM EDT
I know there are experts on THIS board. I'm AKE Super Moderator of the www.AK-47.net board. Keep this is a secret, yeah right! I bought a Colt AR 6601 HB Match 1/7 twist NIB from another dealer. I do not know one darn thing about an AR, but I will tell you, I love the feel of this thing.

I have read the manual that came with it but want to know the "In's and Out's" and "Tricks of the Trade" so to speak.

What ammo is the best to use in the thing, do I need that thingy wedge for the receiver, best mags and all that kinda stuff. One guy I know said to grease the recoil spring another said don't do that just shoot it the way it is out of the box.

The push pins are now installed on the lower, as a favor and he gave me the Mil Spec butt plate as the plastic door one that come with the rifle usually breaks as opposed to the metal one, as you are probably aware anyhow since you guys are the experienced one's here.

Should I put a weight in the back of the buttstock etc. I'm only using it for target shooting. Anyhow any advice on the ownership, any knowledge imparted would be appreciated.

Great to be here and thank for taking the time to respond to my post.
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 3:52:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 4:00:29 AM EDT
I have LC 62 grn, so the heavier bullets are best, can and should I go higher? I was worried that 55 grn would wobble from the fast twist although I would rahter shoot the SS 109 and higher if appropriate. I want to set it up downrange with the tack driving stuff and then just shoot the other grained stuff.

So you are saying set it up with SS109 correctamundo?
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 4:04:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 5:12:35 AM EDT
The 62gr would work fine but if you want to do long range shooting and especially trying any competitions with it I would suggest you go out and buy several brands and several weights and try them all out to see which ones will perform the best.I would suggest trying some of the Black Hills offerings first.

Buy only USGI mags in the 20 or 30rnd configuration well excuse me you are in Maryland so only the 20rnd configuration.

I wouldn't worry about the accuwedge unless you really feel that the fit is to loose.

I wouldn't add the weight in the stock unless you feel you really need it.
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 5:15:44 AM EDT
with good taste.
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 5:48:03 AM EDT
For info on competition quality ammunition, go to the Competition forum with your questions.

55 or 62 grain surplus ain't it, but it's great for plinking.

7 twist barrels shoot bullets weights from 50 to 80 grains (and heavier) just fine. You might spin the jackets off extremely light varmint bullets shot with high muzzle velocities (and correspondingly high rpm).

I hereby declare the 7 twist barrel for Ar-15 type rifles chambered for .223 Remington, "the best all around rifling twist" since it handles the broadest usable spectrum of bullet weights with accuracy equal to slower twist barrels.

Don't weight the butt stock unless you need it for balance, or the rifle is otherwise in "match configuration" with free float tube, decent trigger, and so on. You'll just get tired.

Orlite, DPMS, and USGI magazines are good. Do not waste your money on USA magazines.

If you don't grease the buffer spring, don't worry about it - you will get used to the weird noise after just a few shots.

Accu-wedges make the reciever clap-up feel good, but it's not necessary for good accuracy. I can't recommend a JP tension pin; they are too easy to lose in the field if you break the gun down. Carry a spare take down pin if you use one.

Get a bore guide from Sinclair International or DPMS. You need something to clean the locking lug recess - long q-tips, etc. The Sinclair lug cleaning rig is okay, but not great.

Don't stuff pipe cleaners in the gas tube. They get stuck, and they aren't necessary - the hot, high pressure gas keeps the tube clear.

Be sure you know how to reassemble the bolt carrier correctly. If you put the firing pin retainer cotter key in from the right side (harder to do on modern AR's, but a problem on old A-1 style M-16's), the carier will jam tight in the upper receiver. Real tight.

When you zero the sights, flip the small aperture up and use it at all ranges. The "0-20" battle sight is useless for meaningful taget shooting. A sight adjustment tool makes adjustments to the front sight much easier, but it is not necessary, and once set, you probably won't move it often, if ever.

Before you start shooting, make sure the carrier key is bolted down tight. These rifles will not shoot accurately if it is loose.

Once you start shooting an AR, you are going to wonder why you waited so long to get one.
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 5:57:26 AM EDT
i am no expert...., but !!!!!

in any gun/rifle, one must try different ammo, as each barrel is as different as we are from each other, if you are an experienced handloader, you will try many different combos of powder, bullet & even primers......

no.., you do NOT need that wedge thyngy, all it does is help keep the upper & lower from ratteling, the recoil spring shud be LIGHTLY lubricated wyth CLP.....

mags......?? there too, you must try different mags, i have three AR-15s (soon will have 3 more !!)& not all my mags will fit the 3 rifles, i have them marked, "all" "Colt", "Bushy" & "E.A."

welcome to the world of the best rifle ever made !!!!!!!!!!!!


Link Posted: 5/11/2002 7:21:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2002 7:27:19 AM EDT by warlord]
Welcome to the world of AR15s. Your experience will just be a another/different aspect of guns. The only thing you seriousnessly need is just to put ammo in it and shoot it, and of course cleaning. And buy a bunch of mags, which should know already.

I bought a kit of small parts from Bushmaster with parts that are easily lost or wears out(I don't remember the exact cost but somehting like $10), and I store in my A2 pistol grip which has a little door. Or you can just find out what the parts they have, and purchase them at your local gun show and just store with your range bag.
Either way if something should break or get lost, you just reach in your stash and replace the offending part, and it won't ruin your whole range session, and you can replace the part the next time you go to a gunshow.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 2:23:10 AM EDT
Thanks for the info to everyone, your input is really appreciated. Went to a show and picked up the following items.

68grn Black Hills BTHP Moly $16.00 50rnds

Colt Mags 1 well worn one, no finish $15. No dents....refinished it in Black Teflon last night came out great, baked at 180 deg. for 1hr.

One new Mag Mil spec DLS or something in Ohio $15.00.

Get this one...20 Colt 20's and when I got home they were only 5 rounders. They have some sort of block in them, so back to the show they go.

So far so good! I'm learing real qick thanks to you guy's. All the best to all of you!

Link Posted: 5/12/2002 2:50:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AKE:


Get this one...20 Colt 20's and when I got home they were only 5 rounders. They have some sort of block in them, so back to the show they go.






No need to return those Colt mags if you can't find replacements at a good price. Just drill out the pop rivet that holds the bottom plate on and remove the interior block. Just don't install the unblocked 20-rounder in a post ban! {shudder}
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 5:27:50 AM EDT
The blocked mags hold a greater value to some people, I wouldn't return them if I were you, I would post them for sale in the EE.

You can remove the blocks if you like and it won't matter if it is used in a post ban or pre ban rifle.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 7:23:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AKE:
Colt Mags 1 well worn one, no finish $15. No dents....refinished it in Black Teflon last night came out great, baked at 180 deg. for 1hr.




How did you do that?

thx

Link Posted: 5/12/2002 10:24:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AKE:

Get this one...20 Colt 20's and when I got home they were only 5 rounders. They have some sort of block in them, so back to the show they go.





Here's another tidbit. Those mags may be worth more to some people than a 20 rounder. Chances are you can sll them for mre than what you paid for. Alot of hunters will want them. You actually made out better with the 5 rounders.


As far as ammo, 55 grain will work just fine out of your 1 in 7 twist. 1 in 7 was made to handle the 62 grain M855 which the old 1 in 12 couldn't do well. Comercially, industries make 1 in 9 as a nice compromise to the 2 twist rates. (cheaper for them)
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 10:41:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:58:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 3:09:19 AM EDT by AKE]
Well I returned the mags yesterday and they guy apologized as he thought they were 20 rounders. I really didn't want to screw with them as I can get the correct ones, that's I paid for anyhow.

Range report: I took it out yesterday and set it up with 68grn Black Hills Moly BTHP. One of the RO's that I work with was there and a AR afficianado, he helped me get set up and sighted in. Next I used 55 grn IMI TZZ 96 Mil Spec and that's a hot round and was just terrific. Accuracy was just terrific for an old guy with iron sights. These are tack driving rifles. This Colt 6601 HB is great.

This is an extremely accurate rifle! I popped out the ten ring on more than one occasion. Group of three were really tight.

Since this is a fixed handle does anyone reccommend a great scope for this rifle?

I'm very pleased with the quality and accuracy. The gun is fun and felt recoil was nil, very surprising. No AK 74 can hold a candle to this rifle. I'm converted!

Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:22:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 4:26:52 AM EDT by tatjana]

Originally Posted By AKE:
I know there are experts on THIS board. I'm AKE Super Moderator of the www.AK-47.net board. Keep this is a secret, yeah right! I bought a Colt AR 6601 HB Match 1/7 twist NIB from another dealer. I do not know one darn thing about an AR, but I will tell you, I love the feel of this thing.



Welcome to the party!

Nice weapon!


What ammo is the best to use in the thing, do I need that thingy wedge for the receiver, best mags and all that kinda stuff. One guy I know said to grease the recoil spring another said don't do that just shoot it the way it is out of the box.


I'll get to ammo at the end.

Thingy wedge? The Accu-wedge? They are supposed to reduce wear and make the feel a bit more solid. I've never had a problem so I'm not a huge believer in them but some people swear by them. Still, I've never tried one so I don't really know how much difference they do or do not make.

I put CLP on the recoil/buffer spring occasionally, but not unless it seems like it needs it.


The push pins are now installed on the lower, as a favor and he gave me the Mil Spec butt plate as the plastic door one that come with the rifle usually breaks as opposed to the metal one, as you are probably aware anyhow since you guys are the experienced one's here.


Good deal on the pushpins. Makes life much easier. I actually like the plastic door. My field cleaning kit goes in there. Comes in useful if I need to e.g. rod out a stuck round. Still, you probably won't miss it if your at the range and you have a good range box.


Should I put a weight in the back of the buttstock etc. I'm only using it for target shooting. Anyhow any advice on the ownership, any knowledge imparted would be appreciated.


Often people put weights in the buttstock for balance when competition shooting, that's a personal preference issue more than anything else. Target shooting, well, you picked the right setup. That 1:7 twist Match HBAR will spin up even heavy rounds nicely.

Invest in some CLP for cleaning. Breakfree with CLP seems to be the brand of choice (that's what I use) but there are as many opinions on this as there are AR owners. Don't mix solvents- they can be grumpy when introduced to one another.

Also, if you don't have it, invest in the chamber/bore brush for the AR. Really helps clean things up. A standard surplus M16 brush is findable just about anywhere with a GI standard cleaning kit.

Make sure you pay attention to the break-in procedure for the rifle. Chrome lined barrels are pretty easy (200 rounds before cleaning to polish the chrome) but I don't think that your 6601 will have a chrome barrel, make sure to check and see what Colt says.

If you're sufficiently paranoid invest in a cleaning rod that isn't segmented (the kind you screw together). It's possible to leave nicks on the interior surfaces of the weapon with those sometimes. Again, you have to be pretty anal to be concerned- but it's probably worth the few bucks anyhow. I clean my barrels always from chamber to muzzle, inserting the rod first, chamber to muzzle then attaching the cleaning patch or brush and pulling it through. You're always cleaning in the direction of the bullet travel this way. Again, slightly anal, but I feel better about myself in the morning when I'm anal about cleaning.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:22:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 4:26:06 AM EDT by tatjana]
It's easy to want to OVERCLEAN the weapon too. You shouldn't have to worry about the port or the gas tube very much. Eventually you might have carbon buildup, but if you want to deal with it, try soaking in CLP for 30 minutes before brushing. Make sure to lubricate the bolt face and extractor well and use a spent cartridge to get CLP down in there good. This is a really good thing to get in the habit of.


For the real nitty gritty on cleaning try:

old.ar15.com/books/TM9-1005-319-10.pdf

Also, look in the cleaning and maintenence forum here on AR15.com.

www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?id=7

Browse around in there. Just about any question that can be asked has been. Our own Dave_G is the local master when it comes to cleaning and maintenance. Use his vast expertise.

That weapon should serve you well for well over 20,000 rounds if you are nice to it. It should also be very accurate!

You might want to stick a foam earplug in the hole at the top of your grip where it meets the bottom of the trigger guard. That always pinches my finger. Not sure if your Colt has the same gap, my Bushmaster does. There's also a special part that goes in there but I think the earplug adds a certain panache to my weapon.

Nothing is better then standard GI magazines that are in good shape, I think. If your just target shooting buy yourself 5-6 20 rounders. They are the most reliable in my experience. You might try georgia precision for those, though I guess they are backlogged right now.

www.georgiaprecision.com/cats/catarmag.htm

Troy is the master of Magazines. Take a look at the mag forum here. Lots of info there.

www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?id=17

You might also look at the Equipment Exchange here. Generally this is a good community and you can find great deals in there.

www.ar15.com/forums/index.html?board=3

Ammo. If you really want accurate then you probably want heavier Sierra Match King rounds which your rifle will handle just fine given the 1:7 twist. Rounds topped with Matchkings are outstanding. Federal Gold Medal Match is recommended often. Hornady’s A-Max are a good pick too. Heaver Matchking topped rounds tend to take honors at Camp Perry every year. All of those match rounds are expensive, however.

For less serious play, try any of the newer 62gr M855/SS109 stuff. Olympic has some stuff going around now that apparently shoots nicely. Any of the Lake City M855/SS109 is also great stuff. It's not made for civilian sales anymore and Lake City is considered the "gold standard" of ammo plants so perhaps you'll want to keep what you buy, rather than shoot it all up. :)

I am a huge fan of M193 ammo. It's cheap. It's available. There is a lot of it in new manufacture. It is a bit lighter though (55gr) and that may or may not be to your taste in that 1:7 in barrel. It is loaded hot, to milspec, and in my view (but this is a VERY contentious point) it makes for the best self-defense ammo. Winchester sells Q3131a and there is Lake City's M193 also. (Again, Lake City can't make it for civilian sales anymore but the Q3131a is close to the same).

For just general plinking you can't beat South African surplus battle packs. They are really cheap and milspec. Probably not quite as accurate as LC, but the difference is minor at best- and for the price: yummy!
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:23:24 AM EDT
Some people swear by Wolf ammo (Russian). I tend to stay away from it. Some people have problems with failure to extract because of the coating on the rounds. (They are steel cased). They are also kinda stinky. (Smell like ammonia). Still, some people shoot thousands of rounds of the stuff and never notice a problem.

Probably you should avoid Sellier and Bellot. Apparently there have been some exploding rifles with this ammo due to casing failures.

You can find a lot of this in the Ammo FAQ:

www.ar15.com/forums/announcement.html?id=69

or in the ammo forum:

www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?id=16

When you're ready to splurge on ammo try: www.ammoman.com/. Lots of people in here (me included) swear by him. He's occasionally a touch more expensive, but he's fast and also takes back and stuff with no questions asked.


Great to be here and thank for taking the time to respond to my post.


Not a problem. Stick around.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:45:01 AM EDT
Oh, you asked about scopes too.

Depends what your looking for but for handle mounts you might try ACOGs. They are durable and sight in wonderfully. They are also designed for handle top mounts.

www.trijicon-inc.com

I prefer full optics with some magnification since your AR will reach out to 600 meters without much problem (1000 meters for people who know what they are really doing) but some people like red-dot systems like aimpoint.

www.aimpoint.com/

You can get a wide set of opinions on those and others here at:

www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?id=18

You also asked:


I have LC 62 grn, so the heavier bullets are best, can and should I go higher? I was worried that 55 grn would wobble from the fast twist although I would rahter shoot the SS 109 and higher if appropriate. I want to set it up downrange with the tack driving stuff and then just shoot the other grained stuff.

So you are saying set it up with SS109 correctamundo?



Depends what you are looking for. You will have to switch your zero with the lighter rounds out past 150-200 meters or so, particularly if you sight in with e.g. 69gr Federal Gold Medal Match. But you can certainly shoot 55gr and 62gr (M855/SS109) for play without changing much and keep zeroed to your 69gr match stuff for the longer range work. That LC 62gr (M855) is great stuff. Not match stuff, but good. What year is it? What does the headstamp say?

Try some 55gr M193 (Q3131a and South African Surplus are good) out and see how it shoots. You shouldn't have TOO much wobble. Try a group at 100 or 200 meters/yards and see how 55gr performs. It is pretty much the cheapest stuff to get and very hot velocity wise. You will want to avoid lighter rounds like the 50gr and especially the 40gr. (Although it might be interesting to experiment with them). Your 1:7 might spin them up enough to rip them apart as they go downrange.

Oh, never NEVER NEVER fail to put the cam pin back in correctly after stripping. That's bad.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:33:46 AM EDT
Gee! Tatja! He just asked a simple question.

A simple yes or no answer would suffice.

As always, you are marvelous.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:47:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR_Rifle:
Gee! Tatja! He just asked a simple question.

A simple yes or no answer would suffice.

As always, you are marvelous.



I'll second the last sentence of that post!
Tatjana: we've never met, but, as others have mentioned before, your posts are insightful and informative.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 8:01:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR_Rifle:
Gee! Tatja! He just asked a simple question.

A simple yes or no answer would suffice.

As always, you are marvelous.



Dat's my job!

(This place gave me so much I am just giving back a fraction, trust me).
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 12:32:45 PM EDT
The LC is dated 1986. Oh yesh the buttstock trap door is the metal mils spec versus a plastic door. Anyhow, the darn thing shoot beautifully and cleans up really fast, thats a joy in itself.

Can't wait to scope it! Now that'll be fun.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:20:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By AR_Rifle:
Gee! Tatja! He just asked a simple question.

A simple yes or no answer would suffice.

As always, you are marvelous.



Dat's my job!

(This place gave me so much I am just giving back a fraction, trust me).



She rarely speaks for months, and now she averages 4 pages per question answered. Someone has come out of her shell.
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