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Posted: 4/30/2002 12:47:18 PM EDT
I'm looking for a reliable .45 for under $800 and was considering either an HK USP or a Glock but haven't made a decision yet. Should I be ignoring lower priced brands like Ruger? I love Ruger rifles but am not familiar with their pistols other than the old faithful Mark 1 .22 cal. I owned a Colt Combat Commander in the past which was an ok gun, but I don't care for the company anymore. If anything else, are there .45's that I should stay away from?
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 12:48:48 PM EDT
1911A1....Sorry has to be said!

R35
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 12:51:29 PM EDT
I like Springfield and Kimber. For 800 clams you should be able to get what you want....
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 12:54:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2002 12:55:26 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 1:00:26 PM EDT
i'm partial to the 1911a1, and i cant think of a bad one. the ruger and glock .45s seem good too. for $800 you ought to be able to get something really nice.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 1:01:19 PM EDT
Take a look at the Sig 220
Get a set of Trijicon's and you are ready to go.

ARH
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 1:04:40 PM EDT
Put another $50-$100 on top of your $800 and get USP Tactical. Nuff Said.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 1:06:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2002 1:08:29 PM EDT by WhiskeyBravo]
Yes I heard the Sig's perform well. I guess most of these pistols would be fine for what I'd use them for (defense/plinking). Just such a hard decision when you can only afford one! One thing I'll never go against though is that it has to be a .45
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 1:18:27 PM EDT
Springfield Armory 1911A1
or
Sig P220
I own BOTH and am VERY HAPPY.

Some comments:
The Sig is more Reliable than the 1911
but..I find the 1911 to be more accurate.

Both are great guns.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 1:26:29 PM EDT
Have been running a Ruger P90 for about a year now. Works great. For the money its just about impossible to beat, especially on the used market. Its a big piece of tin, but the grips work well with my small hands. Trigger is acceptable. Yes, a $900 Kimber or Para will likely shoot better. But I've only got $350 in mine and it holds its own in the local IDPA matches.

Have never been a 1911 fan. If I had the money I'd probably upgrade to a SIG. But so far the Ruger does everything I need it to.

Link Posted: 4/30/2002 2:01:46 PM EDT
1911A1, you can go Kimber, Colt, or Springfield for that money. Hell, I'm a bad one to ask, all my 45's are 1911A1. I did pick up a Colt Commander Series 80, but it is the only one of that series I have.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 3:57:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 4:02:30 PM EDT
Email Medcop and ask him what he thinks of the Spectre that Castle Arms is having done. Then call AntiUSSA and order it.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 4:16:05 PM EDT
If you want a long hard double-action trigger (with an equally poor single action trigger reset) AND a barrel axis height that sits way above the hand get a SIG or an HK - alternatively, save yourself a couple hundred and just get a Ruger P97, if these little things don't bother you that is.

For a great trigger and a bore that rests comfortably close to the hand, its 1911-ville for you.

My preference? The G-21:
14 rounds of on demand .45 ACP, very accurate, and a very low bore axis which, along with the polymer frame, really makes for extremely manageable recoil.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 4:27:26 PM EDT
Check out any one of the Kimber CDP's. Very nice finish and pretty accurate.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 4:37:49 PM EDT
I have a Glock 30, and I love it! You get a package small enough for concealed carry, a capacity of 11 rounds of .45, and very light weight. Mine is very accurate at typical pistol-range engagement distances. I have never had a problem with reliability, at it'll only cost you around $500.

I find the drawbacks to the Sig mentioned above to be true. It's just not very controllable, and doesn't feel as balanced (for me) as the Glock. Sigs are very reliable, however. I've never had any problems with my P229 .40.

1911s good guns--proven over time. I just find that they don't fit my hand very well, and are too big for concealed carry.

The best thing to do is go down to the gun store and just see what feels good to you. All of the guns you are considering are great guns--it will come down to your personal likes and dislikes.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 4:43:46 PM EDT
I had an HK USP .45 fullsize before, and just today put money down on another one. I find them very nice. For concealed carry, I had a S.O.B. holster made and will probably have another one made. A light jacket and you are set. The gun fires nice and is very light considering it's size. This time around I'm going to get the tactical barrel and I'm getting the tac light with the gun. I like the ergonomics of 1911's, but haven't owned one yet, and for now am just sticking with what I know I like. Take your Mk I to the range and I'm sure you'll run across someone willing to let you fire their guns so you know what you like :)
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 11:32:27 PM EDT
I've owned or still own most 45 types. I still own a Springfield Armory 1911A1 & a H&K USP S/S Compact that I use for carry. I used to own a Sig P-220 & Glock 30. All are fine guns.

I sold the P-220 because it was too big for carry & its accuracy was less than desired.

I sold the Glock 30 after I bought the H&K & because the H&K would shoot rings around the 30. I also preferred the H&K trigger feel as well as being able to see the hammer as well as able to go "cocked and locked".

I kept the SA 1911 because it's a 1911. Nuff said. >gg<

The H&K USP comapct is just right for my large hands & it balances wonderfully. The polymer frame will never tarnish nor rust. I have shot many Kimbers & my SA has a Wilson NM barrel in it & the H&K will out shoot them all. Amazing.

Buy the H&K.
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 12:25:56 AM EDT
Ruger's line of auto loading pistols is among the best values in the firearms industry.

Glocks are notoriously reliable.

Either choice will be well under $800.

I'm a big "combat tupperware" fan myself.

Tate
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 1:34:11 AM EDT
For full-size, I would say HK USP Tactical 1st choice and USP45F 2nd. Both reliable as hell, with the tactical having the edge in accuracy.
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 3:08:15 AM EDT
Springfield Armory V16 Iwas hitting rocks at 50yards and thats D@mn good for me even on my best days. And no the rocks werent boulders either
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 4:06:47 AM EDT

For $800 you can get two arsenal refinished Sistema Modelo 1911A. These were made in Argentina on Colt machinery to Colt specification. They are a Colt 1911 made under a different name. All parts are interchangeable with the Colt 1911, so there is never a problem switching out parts. Best of all, they are C&R. I've got two and they are great...I'll put them up against my Springfield any day.

Besides...if you don't want two, buy one for $300 and take the rest of your money and have it customized....either way, you can't lose!!!
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 1:21:02 PM EDT
I know Kimber is now the "hot ticket", but I'd steer away from them for two reasons:

They use MIM (metal injection molding)process for their internals.

They are starting to use a "safety" system that makes the Colt Series '80 firing pin safety look like a great piece of engineering.

Considering your budget constraints, I'd cruise the guns shows and try to find a Series '70 or a Springfield. I bought a Series '70 for $425 a few months ago that hadn't been f*cked with i.e. no self taught, Dremel wielding pseudo-pistolsmith, butchery had been performed upon it. With the balance you could afford Novak or Heinie sights and a trigger job. No bells and whistles, but very serviceable.
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 2:10:36 PM EDT
If you going to carry, get the Glock 36. Can't beat it if you’re going to be walking around with it.

If you want something for inside the house I'd get the H&K USPC with a light to go on its rail.
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 2:22:06 PM EDT
Go with the Spectre!

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=106102

Call or email Tim at Castle Arms and get in on the deal he is offering. I can't say enough about this .45

I am using it to replace my Glock as my Tac Pistol. If you want more info get in touch with Castle Arms. You can also email me if you want to hear more about how great it is.

www.castle-arms.com/
217-223-5082

I can't wait to get mine!
medcop
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 2:32:15 PM EDT
Great ideas from all. Glock 36 is a great carry pistol as are all Glocks but I urge you to find a range that rents pistols and try the different models and brands. HKs are stone reliable like Glocks but shoot very differently. Sigs as mentioned, have a very high bore axis. 1911s are my personal favorite as they point naturally and have a wonderful trigger. They can be more ammo sensitive from a reliability standpoint though. Have fun trying all those guns and good luck.Dave
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 2:35:52 PM EDT
i have fired just about every make of .45 out there. i kept coming bak to a 1911. my carry piece is a SA ultra compact. i love it.

It replaced my G30 when it KB'd on my father. DO NOT BUY A GLOCK 30! Do some research on it and you will see why. Mine blew up with factory ammo. I sold the scrap to a friend who had glock replace it. He just got it back and has already decided to get rid of it.

Sig makes a fine weapon as well as the hk and ruger. Keep in mind the HK and ruger are damn hard to conceal as they are LARGE.

Just my opinion it was free so you got your monies worth. Just let ne say this again DO NOT BUY A GLOCK 30!!!

mike
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 2:47:52 PM EDT
HK USP 45 is the only way to go.
Link Posted: 5/2/2002 3:00:08 PM EDT
1911! 1911! 1911! or if you can't find/afford these a 1911!!:)rocko.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 8:16:12 PM EDT
had a glock 30, not reliable.had a springfield champion, junk.had a sig p220,reliable but hard to control.still HAVE a ruger p90, and looking to buy another. the p90 will feed any brand, bullet style,+p,brass or alum. cased ammo. this pistol will give consistent 1.5 in. groups with good ammo at 25 yards.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 8:22:49 PM EDT
Don't kid yourself.
Having $800 to spend on a handgun, means you have the right idea, buy the HK.


I still fondle mine everyday.
We've been together for a year now.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 8:30:22 PM EDT
HK HK HK HK HK
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 8:42:36 PM EDT
HK USP. I love mine, traded a Springfield "loaded" 1911 for it in fact. I've shot a Glock and did not like it, dont know why, I just didn't. No experience with the sigs so I cant comment though. With the HK I can keep all my shots in the torso at 50 yds which, to me, is amazing.

SP
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 8:44:04 PM EDT
All are good choices except everyone has forgotten to tell you that if you go for the Glock , you SHOULD NOT fire cast bullets through it . Its possible to get a dangerous lead build up due to the polygonal rifling used in its barrel .
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 10:44:20 PM EDT
If you want an honest answer, go with the Ruger P-97. The design fits the hand better than the old Ruger styles, is amazingly accurate and is utterly reliable. The guns smooth design and light weight make it just as good for carry or concealed carry as anything of comparable size.

After buying a Ruger I wanted a Sig because I had heard so much about them. I bought a P-220 and loved it. But was it any better than my Ruger? Not that I have noticed. Both have been 100% reliable for me. So what was the major difference I found between the Sig and Ruger? Hmmmm, about $300-$400! Take my advice and try one of these. You'll love the Ruger. Of course the Sig and H&K are superb guns, but IMHO the Ruger will do anything they can, and at a hell of a lot less cost. This will leave you plenty of money for extra ammo, holsters and magazines too. With $800 you will be lucky to leave the shop with anything but the pistol if you choose Sig or H&K! BTW, what does Massad Ayoob pack? Yep, you guessed it, a Ruger P-97 loaded with Gold Dots.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 10:52:27 PM EDT
hk = lifetime warranty
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 11:17:12 PM EDT
I'm surprised to see Glock 30 owners here. I own one also. I've never had a problem with the gun. Its reliable. If I had a CCW, I would definitely carry it because its so small yet packs a punch. To a war or combat situation, I would take the full size 1911s or HK USP45. I'm disappointed with the Glock 30's accuracy. Its not designed for precise shot. I hate the sights and its fat grip. You don't say how you are going to use your handgun. Is it for conceal carry? Is it for home defense? I've shot revolvers and I've shot semi autos. I've shot 9mm, .38, .40sw, and .45acp pistols. But my favorites are 1911 or HK USP in .45acp. Glock 17 (9mm) is excellent alternative too.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:10:38 AM EDT
I have to add my $.02 as well.

I have a Springfield 1911, HK USP 45 Full Size and a Glock 27.

I just got the HK.

The 1911 and the USP perform flawlessly!!!!

The Glock hasn't KaBoomed on me yet, it works fine but nothing, nothing like the 1911 and USP.

It may take some getting used to the USPs trigger but it is a fine pistol. Worth its price, without question!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:24:47 AM EDT
I've got a Sig P220 and love it. It will take any kind of ammo you got and fire it with no hitch. Try that with your H&K, Rugers,Colt 1911's(or Kimbers)and Glocks.Stuff they won't feed turning them into jammomatics. I know because I have to clear my friends pistols when it happens(all above brands).I then take all that "jammed" ammo,load up a mag & fire it all with no hitch thru my Sig. Now they are all Believers.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:29:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sharkman:
I have a Glock 30, and I love it! You get a package small enough for concealed carry, a capacity of 11 rounds of .45, and very light weight. Mine is very accurate at typical pistol-range engagement distances. I have never had a problem with reliability, at it'll only cost you around $500.

....snip...



Ditto... I love my Glock 30. And a few more bonuses:

- Trigger pull and controls are the same as pretty much every Glock so at a later date you can get a full size Glock 21 for a "duty size" .45 without having to retrain for a new gun.

- You'll have enough $$$ left over to get a quality set of night sights installed and buy a nice holster, or....

- The Glock 30 will accept the preban hi-caps from it's bigger brother the Glock 21. When I carry my G30 for concealed I carry a G21 13+2 magazine as a spare. It fits in my Galco spare mag carrier so that more is sticking out so that I can get a good grasp for a quick reload. For $800 you can get yourself the Glock 30, Trijicon night sights, a nice Galco holster and mag pouch and a Glock 21 hi-cap. You'll have a complete concealed carry package with 26 rounds of .45 at your disposal. If you go for the Kimber or the Sig 220 you spend most/all/or more than all of your clams on just the gun and only have 8 rounds (or 15 with a spare mag) to utilize.

My $0.02
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:58:01 AM EDT
I own both a Sig P220 and a Springfield M1911. The M1911 is more reliable, accurate and a more fun shooter than the P220. I carry the P220 most often because my choices are a Glock or Sig as a duty gun. I'd sooner have a root canal than carry another Glock. I think the Sig is a nice pistol, well made and fairly accurate it's just that the M1911 is so much nicer to shoot. Mine has a drop in Bar-Sto barrrel which may account for some of it's shootability but it's 1000% reliable and shoots far more accurately than my Sig. If I could own only one gun it would be my M1911, even over the AR's!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:12:15 AM EDT
I recommend the Para Ordnance. Right now I have a P13, a P14 and a Springfield Armory 1911A. The P13 would have to be my favorite. It shot beautiful right out of the box, the recoil isn't punishing, and it fits comfortably, even in big hands like mine. The P14 and 1911A are also great guns, but I like the barrel a little shorter. I had a Ruger P90, and didn't see anything wrong with it either. You can't beat the Ruger for the price. If you’re willing to spend more cash I'd take a look at the P/O's. You can’t beat the 13-14 round magazines !

Good luck !!!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:29:14 AM EDT
1911
Rent/shoot various makes. Buy a standard model for less than $800 use the remaining $$$ to customize to your liking. Colt is making better guns than they were 2-4 years ago. You can get a series 70 Colt again (no safety block). Kimbers are accurate out of the box. Springfields are all good.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:32:52 AM EDT
I suggest checking out the CZ-97. Beautiful gun, great ergonomics.

I do like the 1911's too. The Springfield Loaded is a great gun for the money. You could always save up another $200 and get the Wilson KZ-45 or the Springfield Tactical Response Pistol.

I have a Glock 30 and wouldn't buy another one. It's impossible to find a comfortable grip, what with the fat grip, the molded finger grooves from hell, and the stupid "thumb rest." If there was ever a candidate for a grip reduction, this is it.

Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:56:21 AM EDT
I'll put in a plug for Para-Ordnance as well. I have a P-14 and a P-12. It helps to have a bigger hand to wrap around that double stack though.

Para also makes some double action models that have been getting good reviews.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:24:07 AM EDT
Para-Ordnance P-14 and the HK USP are the only way to go my friend!!!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:34:25 AM EDT
I own two Kimbers, and being poor is the only reason I don't own more. Right now they're the best bang for the buck.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 11:46:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
I've got a Sig P220 and love it. It will take any kind of ammo you got and fire it with no hitch. Try that with your H&K, Rugers,Colt 1911's(or Kimbers)and Glocks.Stuff they won't feed turning them into jammomatics. I know because I have to clear my friends pistols when it happens(all above brands).I then take all that "jammed" ammo,load up a mag & fire it all with no hitch thru my Sig. Now they are all Believers.



What are you talking about??
We all know Wolf is the only ammo that the USP has troubles with.
Glocks seem to shoot anything.

Hate when clowns like you open your mouth, say things that are not true, and then tell us of some tall tale of why you feel that way, when in realality, if you did test these things yourself, you wouldn't be saying them.

You get the clown award for the day.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:12:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MurderSHO45:

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
I've got a Sig P220 and love it. It will take any kind of ammo you got and fire it with no hitch. Try that with your H&K, Rugers,Colt 1911's(or Kimbers)and Glocks.Stuff they won't feed turning them into jammomatics. I know because I have to clear my friends pistols when it happens(all above brands).I then take all that "jammed" ammo,load up a mag & fire it all with no hitch thru my Sig. Now they are all Believers.



What are you talking about??
We all know Wolf is the only ammo that the USP has troubles with.
Glocks seem to shoot anything.

Hate when clowns like you open your mouth, say things that are not true, and then tell us of some tall tale of why you feel that way, when in realality, if you did test these things yourself, you wouldn't be saying them.

You get the clown award for the day.



Thanks! Now there is no need for me to jump!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:39:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MurderSHO45:

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
I've got a Sig P220 and love it. It will take any kind of ammo you got and fire it with no hitch. Try that with your H&K, Rugers,Colt 1911's(or Kimbers)and Glocks.Stuff they won't feed turning them into jammomatics. I know because I have to clear my friends pistols when it happens(all above brands).I then take all that "jammed" ammo,load up a mag & fire it all with no hitch thru my Sig. Now they are all Believers.



What are you talking about??
We all know Wolf is the only ammo that the USP has troubles with.
Glocks seem to shoot anything.

...



I had a friend who had a SIG P-226 that jammed like crazy, and I've seen other P-226s jam as well (with ball!). Not often, but it happens.

I've seen Glocks jam as well. Again, not often, but I've seen it. I wouldn't use cast bullets in a Glock without replacing the barrel.

I have no experience with H&K handguns (I've never seen an H&K rifle jam, and I have experience with those).

My handguns include a modified Springfield 1911. The main mod was a fitted Bar Sto barrel. It had a basic reliability & trigger job. Very reliable. Very accurate. Feeds everything from empties to ball including hollow points and SWCs. Hell, it feeds my junk reloads!

I also have a stock Kimber. It is more accurate than my modified Springfield (just slightly, and the Springfield has lots and lots of reloads through it). The Kimber doesn't feed empties, and it has balked at a couple of reloads due to its tight chamber. Kimber uses tight chambers, which aids accuracy but can cause reliability problems with some loads, particularly when dirty.

As an interesting note, an old neighbor had a Government issue 1911A1 that was bone stock. It never gave use one problem with over 1000 rounds we put through it, mostly ball but several hundred rounds of SWCs and hollow points as well (reloads with the 200 Gr "flying ashtray", Sierra 185 gr HPs, and Remington factory 185 gr HPs).

Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:40:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MurderSHO45

We all know Wolf is the only ammo that the USP has troubles with.
Glocks seem to shoot anything.



I find that my Glock chambers (9, .40, .45) are tighter than all my other handguns. This usually isn't a problem until you come across some heavy bullet in a thick case, and it keeps the slide from going into battery. Sometimes a gentle tap on the slide will seat it, but mostly you have to eject the round and put it aside.

Interestingly, my Glock 30 fed lead SWCs just fine, but would jam consistently on lead 230 gr. ball. Go figure.
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