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Posted: 4/22/2002 8:08:09 AM EDT
the miles gear for sim training, can civilians get these?

my buddies & i want some. for now when we shoot eachother (with blanks of course), we use the honor system. but how cool would it be to get accurate feedback from your shots.

it beats the hell out of the "oh you're so dead, i had you!"..."no you didn't, you weren't even close!"

ridiculous!
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 8:16:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 8:17:16 AM EDT by Spearweasel]

Originally Posted By thecleaner:
the miles gear for sim training, can civilians get these?

my buddies & i want some. for now when we shoot eachother (with blanks of course), we use the honor system. but how cool would it be to get accurate feedback from your shots.

it beats the hell out of the "oh you're so dead, i had you!"..."no you didn't, you weren't even close!"

ridiculous!



?



Link Posted: 4/22/2002 8:28:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thecleaner:
the miles gear for sim training, can civilians get these?

my buddies & i want some. for now when we shoot eachother (with blanks of course), we use the honor system. but how cool would it be to get accurate feedback from your shots.

it beats the hell out of the "oh you're so dead, i had you!"..."no you didn't, you weren't even close!"

ridiculous!



So you run around with blanks shooting at each other, huh?
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 9:05:28 AM EDT
Real, real hard to find and if you could you probably could'nt afford a MILES system ($1000 to $2000 per indiv set).
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 9:14:25 AM EDT
once a year we go on a shooting trip. during the few days we're there (it's huge private property) we have an afternoon where we put on blank adapters & stalk eachother.

it's not as wreckless as it sounds. we do numerous checks before moving out. actually it's quite easy to do a final visual check. once you have the blanks in/loaded, if you look straight down the mags, you can see all the way down to the bottom of the mag (because there's no bullets).

& no i'm not troling.

it's really fun, and it scares the livin sh#t out of you when it's all quiet and somebody opens up.

YIKES!
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 9:18:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 9:21:15 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:28:25 AM EDT
Youch, BLanks still hurt you know. And if you use a blank cap, it gets REALLLLL dirty inside your gun. So dirty in fact, that the SOB eventually clogs and jams. If you ask me, definitely not worth it.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:28:26 AM EDT
AIRSOFT guns would do nicely =) I sure wouldn't play around w/real guns like that.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:29:42 AM EDT
You could try paintball guns.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 11:14:57 AM EDT
Have you consider simmunition
as a training sistem?My unit uses it and its affective for short range/QQC .

http://www.simunition.com/

PRETORIAN
OUT
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 12:56:26 PM EDT
hey gunsmith, haven't had much of a clogging problem. we only use 3 mags each before calling it quits. we spend 95% of the time trying to find eachother. we're not constantly firing.

as for the safety thing with using real 15's,
it creeped us out at first. however, we then relaxed a bit and found comfort in knowing we had been shooting together for 5 years. i wouldn't do that kinda gun stuff with just anybody.

plus we got bored with paintball. airsoft is good though.

pretorion, thanks for the sim sight, i'll check it out.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 1:06:04 PM EDT
The military switched over to miles2000 a few years ago ( around 2000..no brainer huh?) and I imagine all the old stuff is sitting in surplus somewhere. The most important thing if you wanted to be accurate is the SAFF..(the zero box) that would be super expensive I'm sure.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 1:11:47 PM EDT
check out this link for info..

http://www.cubic.com/cds/products-sys/miles2000/miles2k.htm
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 2:22:41 PM EDT
I've had a fantasy/dream for years that If I ever won the lottery, I'd invest it in miles gear and class III weapons, buy a shitload of uniforms, and a ton of land. Then I'd rent the stuff out to rich yuppies and let them shoot eachother for a weekend at a time. You could even build a couple of firebases, and if it was profitable enough, get a couple of slicks and go airmoble.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 2:24:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thecleaner:
my buddies & i want some. for now when we shoot eachother (with blanks of course), we use the honor system. but how cool would it be to get accurate feedback from your shots.

it beats the hell out of the "oh you're so dead, i had you!"..."no you didn't, you weren't even close!"

ridiculous!




A REAL man would use live rounds, that way there's no arguing whether you're hit or not...
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 3:07:19 PM EDT
I'm with Thecleaner, that sounds awesome, have thought of it many times myself. Unfortunately, you can forget about simunition, no one will sell it to civilians.

I doubt miles gear is feasible, the cost for each man's equipment alone would be horrific, not to mention the computer system to control it, as someone else mentioned. Also, the military miles system uses sattelite uplink for a connection from soldier to command and control computer I think. Forget about it. A civilian version could be produced relatively inexpensively, kind of like an advanced laser tag, just need someone to do it.

Airsoft looks pretty darn cool, unfortunately you don't the realism of the BANG or cool things like spent cartridges flying all over the place. You also need to spend as much as a nice real gun to get equipped.

Mike
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 3:35:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 3:37:05 PM EDT by Benjamin0001]
That is a good idea for sure. In the right area I am sure that it could be made feasable. For Instance. For just the simulation

100 Acres or So or as much as your willing to use and buy. In the country an Acre can go for as low as $500. So that is $50,000.
And then say buy enough equiptment for however many people would be using it. Say 25 or so. That is another $50k to $75k.
SO that is $150,000. It would be profitable.

Even if you barrowed all $125,000. at 6%. Lets just say 150,000 on a five year note.

That comes down to $2083.00 / month. Or $69.00 a day.

Charge a $100.00 / day/person. With say an Average of 7 people a day = 700.00 You are in the black instantly. That would be a very feasable business.

Saturdays would fill up and you could run LEO's through it during the week.

Ben
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 3:40:07 PM EDT
The orginal MILES itself doesn't connect to a central system. When you go places like JRTC or NTC, the OCs will enter data into the computers. The rifle's laser, halo and harness run on 9 Volt batteries and all you need is at least 2 sets of each and the keys and you are in bussiness.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:15:53 PM EDT
"dibbs on the 'God Gun'"
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:08:35 PM EDT
seriously! that's a great idea!
publicaly having a place to do that. i know where i'd spend my money.

i sense some are apprehensive about this 'hobby' my friends & i practice. it really is somethin though. and gotta tell ya, it IS weird sighting in on your friends. it should be that way! we'are very concious about what we're doing. it's really an umcomforting feeling at first. but it sure is exciting, especially when you're 110% safe about it.

definately worth trying if you get the chance.

waaaaay different than paintball. movement & fire control change like night & day. i'm sure you folks that have played p.ball & have done this in the military can contest to that.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:51:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Benjamin0001:
That is a good idea for sure. In the right area I am sure that it could be made feasable. For Instance. For just the simulation

100 Acres or So or as much as your willing to use and buy. In the country an Acre can go for as low as $500. So that is $50,000.
And then say buy enough equiptment for however many people would be using it. Say 25 or so. That is another $50k to $75k.
SO that is $150,000. It would be profitable.

Even if you barrowed all $125,000. at 6%. Lets just say 150,000 on a five year note.

That comes down to $2083.00 / month. Or $69.00 a day.

Charge a $100.00 / day/person. With say an Average of 7 people a day = 700.00 You are in the black instantly. That would be a very feasable business.

Saturdays would fill up and you could run LEO's through it during the week.

Ben



That would be a damn good idea.. Forgot about ammo costs though..
But think about this.. paintball costs about 50-60 for a day if you don't have your own gun..
This would be way cooler.. cutting someone down with a roaring M16..
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 9:10:21 PM EDT
>>we'are very concious about what we're doing. it's really an umcomforting feeling at first. but it sure is exciting, especially when you're 110% safe about it.<<
Yes, and every year police officers and soldiers get killed in training accidents when they were very concious about what they were doing and when they were 110% sure it was safe.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 12:43:09 AM EDT
I got in big trouble when using miles gear in military. (i'll give short version)
Night time, snuck up on humvee, gunner was shooting at toward the LP with the .50. Sprayed him, he's bleeping, look into the passenger window bang on the truck and tell him this vehicle is destroyed. So he jolts when I bang on the truck and jumps out the door. Comes running around the back with a pistol in his hands aimed at my face. Was too pumped to think about it and he had a pistol wtf? (there were no miles pistols) So I let off a burst in his face with my SAW till he changed direction. Jump back in toward the woodline.
I got called to return to the LP by my SGT. (was real quiet now) Turned out I burned his face pretty good. (nothing permenant, thank god) And the pistol was the "god gun". I got a service repremand or some shit, didn't hear much about it after.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 4:45:45 AM EDT
Whats the "god gun"?

Kharn
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 5:54:54 AM EDT
darm441,

yes, their are training injuries while doing this sorta thing. i'd like to point out that 90% of these are sustained during CQB exercises. exercises that are done regulary.

our rule is: no firing at a target (that would be us) under 15ft. with that in mind, and with what i posted earlier about us only doing this once a year, with only 100 blanks each, our chances of injury (minor ones) are consideribly less than going to a range filled with other shooters.

after all, you gotta think; how many times have you been unaware of the guy next to you, that while checking his target or whatever has swept you with a locked & loaded, ready to rock gun????

food for thought
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 6:13:13 AM EDT
CAUTION!!! You may be committing a felony: "Assault with a Deadly Weapon".

If I remember correctly, here in MI a local outdoor TV show was going to show how effective Second Chance body armor was (a MI company) at an outdoor show and advertised it on their TV show. The demonstration was stopped, I believe by the prosecutor's office, because pointing and firing a firearm at another person is restricted by law.

I'm no lawyer, but try explaining why you are skulking through the woods and pulling the trigger on an AR-15 while pointing it at someone else to the prosecuting attorney.

Or, God forbid, you have an accident. I worked with a fellow who had a buddy of his shot in the head while training with miles gear. Whoops!!! Wrong magazine. It has scarred this fellow for the rest of his life since it happened right in front of him and he was the one that cradled his shattered buddies head 'till he died. BTW the shooter was scarred for life too. And, of course, the guy that was shot is dead forever.

(Yes, the blank firing adapter was in place. It happened at close range.)

There's a reason guns aren't considered toys...

Sorry for going parental on you, but if an accident happened, I'd put you in the same category as the people who stored the gun in the oven.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 8:04:04 AM EDT
This is just my little piece about those who think its fun or cool to run around the woods shooting at each other with a real rifle. It does not matter how safe you are or if you have a blank adaptor or not.

When you are running around the woods/desert/jungle shooting at another human being with the sole purpose of inflicting grave bodily harm, or worse DEATH. ITS CALLED WAR, IT IS NOT A F..KING GAME. It is not supose to be fun. I have spent the last 17 years in the army of those 9 in the infantry (still in the infantry) When we go out to train (w/miles) it is to learn how to KILL the enemy and to SURVIVE, so we can KILL more of the enemy. We do it in the name of FREEDOM. You may think its fun to shoot your buddy but remember that these typs of guns are for KILLING not to go out and have fun shooting at each other. When we are training with miles its not a very good feeling having the OC ( observer/controler) tell you that you are dead. Or when you hear a high pitched beeping coming from your harness. This is an indication that your wife/parents/love one just received your $200,000 life insurance policy, because you are F..KING DEAD. MILES equipment is a training tool to help us survive on the battlefield. Its not a toy people.

If you want to still shoot at one another do as other people have said. Play paintball or use the airsoft equipment at a real field. The pro's and con's are many. As an ex.. miles is a light that can be deflected by a single blade o grass,just like a paint ball. The big diffrence is when you get hit by a paintball/airsoft you know it. It hurts sometimes like hell. (take one in the soft spot, its the most fun)

But if you still want to run around the woods with a battle rife and shoot at another person. Join the infantry Marines or Army they will give you a lot of time to do this, what some people call "FUN"

Remember when you point a gun at some one you have every intention of KILLING them. Guns are not to used a toys. People die when that happens.

Now that I am done ranting have a good day
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 8:10:47 AM EDT
so i guess civil war reinactments are different huh?
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 8:23:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TOW2B:


But if you still want to run around the woods with a battle rife and shoot at another person. Join the infantry Marines or Army they will give you a lot of time to do this, what some people call "FUN"





This isn't an option for some of us.


Anyway, the money that this would cause seems slightly ridiculous. Plus the fact that you could load a real mag in there on accident (unlikely maybe, but people don't get old by taking stupid risks). In my humble opinion, look into Simulation (since you can't fire a real bullet when you've got their adapter in), or just buy an airsoft rifle.
Airsoft is more than enough fun, and as long as you wear eye protection (which you should be doing anyway), nobody has a chance of getting hurt.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 9:03:38 AM EDT
>>yes, their are training injuries while doing this sorta thing. i'd like to point out that 90% of these are sustained during CQB exercises. exercises that are done regulary.<<
I don't know where you get your information, but according to mine they happen in all sorts of training environments, not primarily CQB.
>>our rule is: no firing at a target (that would be us) under 15ft.<<
And you seem to think that makes it safe?????
>>food for thought <<
IMO, the food for thought is that you are trying to rationalize an unsafe action that gives you absolutely no benefit in exchange for a very high risk factor.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 9:52:59 AM EDT
my 90% figure came from LE officers (i'm in LE) whom stated that most of those incidents were sustained in CQB. (burns mostly). but i'm certainly not omitting other surcomstances.

and like i said before. we only do this once a year with 2 others that i've been shooting with for years. and are absolutely thurough regarding saftey. i've actaully got hurt more playing paintball than this.

with that said, i was merely stating that in my "food for thought bit" that as far as safety goes, we don't take anything for granted, and that i'm unfortunately way more complacent while shooting live rounds when there's a person on each side of me, 3 feet away that i've never shot with, and for all i know could be highly inexperienced, and or drunk. that's more of a concern for me than our 2hr a year activity involving blanks.

as for the felony thing...i'll have to inform my sarge that there's 200 people in confederate uniforms pointing guns at eachother, and we'll have to arrest them. (regarding reinactments)

i called dnr & state police, and informed them of our activities prior to see if we were in violation of anything. they thought we were nuts, and reluctantly said we could do this. this year they may say otherwise. we'll see...

now stop busting my balls!

Link Posted: 4/23/2002 10:37:46 AM EDT
Tow2B--Lighten up for Christ's sake.

First, I do thank you for your service. The country owes you a debt that will never be repaid.

However, lighten up with the war is hell stuff, (of course it is).

Why do you think paintball even exists? How about EVERY male child playing cops and robbers, or playing soldier? First person shooter computer games?

Because people like the SIMULATED thrill of "combat." Many would shit themselves if it was real, but that's the attraction, IT IS NOT REAL.

Now, I'm a careful guy, and the idea of anyone, even a "careful" guy, pointing a functional firearm at me and intentionally shooting it at me makes my skin crawl, but that's me.

It's not about some sacred club that us civilians can't enter, though. And don't tell me it's not a rush to use MILES gear, I've seen and talked to plenty of guys who couldn't get enough of it. One buddy was at the National Training center regaled me with stories of wiping out entire units, he never spoke of it without a grin on his face. He's fired on U.S. soldiers many times, using the main gun of an M1, and he never did so with the intention of killing them.

Those bb wars of my misspent youth were one solid adrenaline rush.

So while I would not participate, it's not because it wouldn't be fun or "proper", just becasue I'd be afraid of getting shot.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 10:46:29 AM EDT
well said CITADEL!

Link Posted: 4/23/2002 12:13:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thecleaner:
so i guess civil war reinactments are different huh?



Or WWII reinactments, or Vietnam reinactments, etc., etc.

The guys that play this game don't just yell "bang bang" at each other. They use blanks. They also have rigorous saftey checks and rules.

Cheers,
Chris
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 1:06:53 PM EDT
my point exactly
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 3:27:56 PM EDT
I'd stick to paintball or airsoft. They make them very realistic, so you can still train your 1337 s|<1LLz
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