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Posted: 4/12/2002 8:49:09 AM EDT
I don't know if anyone is going to understand this question but I reload and the slugs I use too reload don't have any metal jacket over the lead is just a lead bullet.

Heres the question, why do they make FMJ(other than military purpose), wouldn't a chunk of lead with no metal around it expand more and cause more wounding then a FMJ and also be cheaper to make? wouldn't be as good as a JHP but at least you would get some expansion.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:56:09 AM EDT
I've never used lead slugs - is there some reason I should? I thought it fouled the barrel faster than FMJ and I know Glocks don't like it.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 9:11:22 AM EDT
I have never had a problem with them not feeding in my guns, the barrel probably gets fouled faster but i never have a problem with malfunction and I fire a few hundred rounds before cleaning.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 9:46:09 AM EDT
I shoot a lot of cast lead slugs through my bullseye guns. The only reason for the lead is cost. After 25,000 rounds, the difference between $34/k for lead vs. $94/k for jacketed adds up. Some jacketed slugs are more accurate than the best cast lead slugs, especially the Nosler 185 grain HP. That's the bullseye shooters' bullet of choice for 50 yards slow fire, from the Marine team on down. Others, less so.

Lead will stick to the bore of a rough barrel or one that's too big for the bullet. A lead bullet should be .001" or .002" bigger than the bore. Smaller, and propellant gasses will leak by the bullet, melting the lead. Then, you get to clean it out. Not fun.

FMJ also tend to be more reliable unless the individual pistol is throated & tuned for the specific lead bullet. I don't think the military gets into terminal ballistics much. Poke a .45 cal hole in the bad guy & let his buddies worry about him.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 11:44:39 AM EDT
I shoot cast lead for the same reason Norm_G does. Its a hell of alot cheaper. When I'm done shooting cast at the range I then run a couple jacketed through the gun. It really makes it alot easier to clean afterwards. I get pretty good accuracy from cast lead.
CAPITALIST
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 11:57:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 12:11:17 PM EDT
in my experiance handloading and shooting,you can get a lead projectile to be accurate as a copper jacket bullet.butt-led more times than not is as hard as a fmj,and will only slightly deform-so what you get is a hole.thats ok in somebodys mind-just not mine.i like a prjectile to expand as it penitrates to make a larger hole through an object( an animal or in an emergancy reason - a person)a larger wound channel creates less chance of a projectile leaving the object you shot and it spends most or all of its energy in this object-creating shock and intense bleeding. unless you want to use a glasier style projectile-which creates several wound channels to bleed from(yes and not as much shock,or all in one location).your best bet is to keep a certain amount of quality new ammo for self defence-i know it defeats the reason behind reloading-but if you do need to use your weapon in self defence-you have an advantage-if the law trys to prosecute you they wont and cant bring up you made it and made it with the intent to kill some one.or any other possibilitys if they find out you made it.if you shoot copper coated projectiles ,you will have an easier time to clean the barrel and are more likely to improve accuracy.if you want i can send you some loads to try with 185,200,and 230gr projectiles that my h&k loves and have found accurate out of several other brands.one other answer i seen from someone else i find very true-that is alot of people shoot lead because it is alot more cheaper to buy.unless you are lucky to find a gun store that only cateres to hunters or shooters only and has better prices .like kesselrings in mount vernon wash.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 2:03:24 PM EDT
I used to shoot 200 SWC cast lead. I like the clean holes they punch in paper. And they are cheaper. But I got tired of the mess they create in my reloading dies so now I use 230 FMJ in 45 ACP. For the 45 Colt I switched to a copper plated bullet and its much cleaner loading and shooting. But I'll admit plain lead is cheaper shooting.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 3:23:33 PM EDT
http://www.precisionbullets.com/index.html

Im not trying to pimp for them but I have just gone thru my first couple hundred of these out of a case. I already called and ordered another because they are having problems keeping up. They are pretty cheap compared to FMJ and only a little more than plain lead.
No smoke, no leading, safe to handle while reloading. Its not moly but it feels like a slick teflon found on some of the DPMS ar mags.
To many people here obsess on the "Combat" side of things. Sure keep plenty of ammo for a rainy day but for practice and competition its a moot point unless uncle sam is paying for your ammo.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 3:27:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2002 3:32:42 PM EDT by Bearlaker]
I've been using cast for quite a while and now I'm starting to worry about the lead factor as far as my health goes.
Any of you guys?
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 4:00:35 PM EDT
Depends entirely on what you plan to use them for,for plinking ,target shooting, by all means use cast lead slugs,combat situations, however, call for a entirely different slug, (any large hollow-point that will reliably feed comes to mind here,) as was mentioned above, barrel leading can be caused by a number of causes, rough barrel ,too large dia. bullet, and too high velocity,I've used cast lead slugs for years, with no problems to speak of,one side benefit of useing cast slugs is there is almost no wear on your barrel, go over to the 1911 board, and ask around,
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 7:11:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2002 7:13:23 PM EDT by DaveT]
Bearlaker,

I have a pretty bad low back injury and am suffering some nerve deterrioration. My doctor just advised me to quit shooting/handling lead bullets (he is a hunter and shooter). So, after 31 years of shooting primairly lead alloy bullets in handguns for economy, I am switching over to the plated variety, mostly from Berry's. They are cleaner but I've had to change most of my loads as they perfrom different than cast lead.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 7:33:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ECS:
I used to shoot 200 SWC cast lead. I like the clean holes they punch in paper.



Please dont shoot me


Paper
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 1:04:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2002 1:09:26 PM EDT by Green_Canoe]
Unfortunately I'm a little late to this thread. But, here's my two cents:

Both lead and jacketed are great. What do you want it to do? As with most things in life there are tradeoffs.

Lead:

Pro: Inexpensive
The handgun hunting bullet of choice. We have to separate soft swaged lead from hard cast lead. A hard cast lead bullet (heavy for caliber) out of one of the magnums will penetrate as far as an expanding rifle bullet (general statement - many exceptions exist) creating a full caliber wound sufficient to bring down the worlds largest critters.

On the other hand a soft lead wadcutter is the target bullet of choice for the .38 special target load.

Lead bullets are easier on the barrel than jacketed. (longer barrel life)

Con: Tend to be messy at higher velocities. (A little leading never hurt anybody.)
The lube creates smoke. (Don't use them for sniping.)
Can be more finicky about bullet sizing to obtain top accuracy. (But capable of equal accuracy in handguns as jacketed, IMHO.)

Jacketed:
Pro: Easy to load.
No mess in loading dies or pistol.
All kinds of neat expanding designs are available.

Con: More expensive
Not the best choice for the really big game. (I use a jacketed bullet in my whitetail loads)


With all that said, I'm shooting both jacketed and cast bullets through my guns. It just depends on my mood when I sit down to load.

As far as health concerns with lead bullets. I do not shoot indoors and when shooting outdoors I try my best not to breath the exhaust gasses from my guns. I wash my hands after loading and shooting. So I do not expect to ingest or aspirate any significant amount of lead. It is my humble opinion that the above listed doctor is being overly cautious. I have read anecdotal accounts of bullet casters who have been tested for lead in their bodies and have come up clean after many years of casting and loading lead. Unfortunately, I can not provide any hard data. Quite simply, I take precautions but do not let possible lead contamination alter my lifestyle.

Link Posted: 4/15/2002 1:38:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Green_Canoe:
Unfortunately I'm a little late to this thread. But, here's my two cents:

Both lead and jacketed are great. What do you want it to do? As with most things in life there are tradeoffs.

Lead:

Pro: Inexpensive
The handgun hunting bullet of choice. We have to separate soft swaged lead from hard cast lead. A hard cast lead bullet (heavy for caliber) out of one of the magnums will penetrate as far as an expanding rifle bullet (general statement - many exceptions exist) creating a full caliber wound sufficient to bring down the worlds largest critters.

On the other hand a soft lead wadcutter is the target bullet of choice for the .38 special target load.

Lead bullets are easier on the barrel than jacketed. (longer barrel life)

Con: Tend to be messy at higher velocities. (A little leading never hurt anybody.)
The lube creates smoke. (Don't use them for sniping.)
Can be more finicky about bullet sizing to obtain top accuracy. (But capable of equal accuracy in handguns as jacketed, IMHO.)

Jacketed:
Pro: Easy to load.
No mess in loading dies or pistol.
All kinds of neat expanding designs are available.

Con: More expensive
Not the best choice for the really big game. (I use a jacketed bullet in my whitetail loads)


With all that said, I'm shooting both jacketed and cast bullets through my guns. It just depends on my mood when I sit down to load.

As far as health concerns with lead bullets. I do not shoot indoors and when shooting outdoors I try my best not to breath the exhaust gasses from my guns. I wash my hands after loading and shooting. So I do not expect to ingest or aspirate any significant amount of lead. It is my humble opinion that the above listed doctor is being overly cautious. I have read anecdotal accounts of bullet casters who have been tested for lead in their bodies and have come up clean after many years of casting and loading lead. Unfortunately, I can not provide any hard data. Quite simply, I take precautions but do not let possible lead contamination alter my lifestyle.




Well Said
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