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Posted: 4/1/2002 12:04:55 PM EDT
My son because of his limited budget purchased his first AR an Olympic .223 Plinker. (16" barrel)

The rifle is fairly accurate but will fail to feed at times with Black Hills 55 grain FMJ (Blue Box)

The rounds that were over 2900 FPS cycled fairly well, but under 2900 FPS this problem was more prominent. The magazines I tried were the factory 10 round and the Adventure Line 30 round USGI. Both with black followers.

I tried some reloads I made that chronographed at 2912 and some at 2945 AVG FPS and the problem persisted. Same OAL as the factory Black Hills with Lake City Brass and WC846 powder and Remington 7 1/2 primers. The factory ammo averaged 2895 FPS.

The problem was the easily corrected with just pulling the charging handle back and a new round chambered.

Since I read that most FTF problems are magazine related, would I start there first or look at something else? Could it be just a simple cleaning or lubrication problem? I would appreciate your input on this. The rifle has about 100 rounds thru it.

I mainly work with benchrest and hunting rifles in bolt and single shots, and this is my first time working with a semi auto rifle. Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/1/2002 1:36:44 PM EDT
Try a another magazine. Might want to just shoot it some more and see if it needs to break in. Might want to do a search on this forum on the Oly plinker, I think the early ones had this problem.
Link Posted: 4/1/2002 2:24:27 PM EDT
Had the same problem with my Bushmaster ear blower. The gas key on the bolt carrier came loose and needed to be tightened and dinged (divited with a punch around the screws) Worked good then.
Link Posted: 4/1/2002 9:23:53 PM EDT
Torakan, I have 6 other mags and will try them also.

gijohnny, Thanks for the info. Now all I have to do is figure out what the gas key is. I will have to get a schematic of the rifle and do some studying. Where in Cheeseland do you live? I am west of Green Bay in the sticks. I have a rifle range set up on my property if you ever get this way.

Anyone else have this rifle or a similair problem? Thanks again for the info.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 10:43:53 AM EDT
Its actually called the bolt carrier key and its attached to the top of the bolt carrier with 2 allen head bolts and then the bolts are staked to keep them from backing out. Might also want to check and make sure the gas rings on the bolt do not have the cuts lined up, they should be staggerd. Both problems will allow to much gass to bleed off and not cycle the bolt. If you get a chance go to www.biggerhamer.net and check out his on line manuals. Go to the troubleshooting section of TM 9-1005-319-23&P and you can find out what you need to do.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 1:58:23 PM EDT
Get a couple 10 round bushy mags.....they`re not expensive and are as good as anything out there right now....I bet that gun needs a little more breakin` in...but mags are a big issue.......also.....try some federal american eagle ammo...or umc.....why worry about chrony figures.....on a rifle that is about the least expensive out there today?...get it workin`......
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 2:03:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
Get a couple 10 round bushy mags...



Be careful about the 10 round Bushy mags. They had a bunch that never should have been sold. Many a person had problems with them. Get a good GI mag and problems will likely go away.

mark
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 2:07:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2002 2:11:30 PM EDT by markm]
I'm doubtful that it is a "break in" thing.

I have owned 4 new AR's, some complete and some i built, and i have never had this type of prob.

Definitely try other ammo since it appears that USGI mags aren't correcting the problem. The loose gas key is a slight possibility.

OLY often has out of spec Chambers (too tight) Its a commonly reported problem on this site. And the result is a short stroking symptom.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 2:08:11 PM EDT
Scrappy, I have this same rifle and have had absolutley no problems with it. I have 10 mags of varying brand and capacity and have had no problems with any of them.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 2:15:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2002 2:16:14 PM EDT by markm]
Are the chrono results that you are reporting are for 55 grain bullets??? that doesn't sound hot enough.

I try to average my 55 grain projectiles at 3100 FPS. which gives me a little cushion up or down without pushing it too far.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 2:26:19 PM EDT

OLY often has out of spec Chambers (too tight).


Can you document such a claim??

If so, it would be news to me! I have not received one rifle back for repair with a chamber that was "out of spec".

Do you know any one who has? If so, please let me know and I will apologize personally immediately.

Remember, there is a HUGE difference between "out of spec" and "close tollerance". A tight chamber is an accurate chamber. We can make them loose if you have a personal preference for shooting (un-full length resized brass) reloaded or remanufactured ammo.

Tom S.
Oly Arms
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 2:30:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By budam:

Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
Get a couple 10 round bushy mags...



Be careful about the 10 round Bushy mags. They had a bunch that never should have been sold. Many a person had problems with them. Get a good GI mag and problems will likely go away.

mark

Who had problems and where?.....hav`nt heard of this........
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 2:31:04 PM EDT
Oh, Yes.

Close Tollerance, my apologies.

Link Posted: 4/2/2002 3:29:47 PM EDT
MarkM, The loads were 55 grain FMJ's from Black Hills.

Black and Green, I use the chrony on all the firearms to get an idea of velocity and for determining reload velocities.

Torokan, Thanks for the info posted, I will have some reading to do for sure.

Tom S. My son emailed you today about the FTF problem. After he left yesterday I tried some handloads with LC brass sized with Lee FL dies.
I used wc-846 propellant and Remington 7 1/2 primers, and 55 grain FMJ's loaded to the same OAL length as the Black Hills 2.230" The rifle would then feed most of the time over 2925 fps.
When it FTF the bolt stop would be engaging the bolt. A simple pull of the charging handle would drop the bolt stop and would allow the next round to chamber. I did notice that the cases seemed sooty if allowed to be in the chamber for an extended period of time between shots. I allowed 15-20 seconds between shots.

Could we just have a dirty chamber or weak ammo velocity wise? My son will be home soon and open his email. I don't have his password so I can not see if you replied.

Thanks to all for trying to help us out with this little problem. This seems like a well made rifle, and I'm sure that we'll get to the bottom of it. Thanks , Scrappy
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 8:13:11 PM EDT
Scrappy.....I respect that.....all I am saying is.....get it working....or call oly for some serious insight.....I`m sure they will help you.......good luck.........
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 9:34:55 PM EDT
Nice reply Tom, I wish these guys would pic up a Olympic product and try it out, before they start giving uneducated suggestions!
Wade Dunn OA2
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 6:35:49 AM EDT
Sometimes a new rifle is tight. Sometimes you have to check which ammo you're using. Is it .223 or is it 5.56? They aren't the same. You might also check your ejector to make sure it's operating smoothly. Also, check the buffer spring and weight. These two little items can affect the cycling or timing of your rifle. The bolt has to return at the right "time" to chamber the next round. If it gets there too fast, the old shell won't be out of the way...yet. Just some suggestions....
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:47:29 AM EDT
gunner75, dont think this is a Oly bashing thread, but since you opened the door......
Both Oly rifles I have owned were just not up to the quality of other AR15s on the market, thus I have owned and shot Oly products and can voice my opinion regarding my experiences. Now, since you are an Oly owners Assoc staffer and have lots of experience with their rifles, maybe you can offer some advise to the owner of this fine Oly product so his new rifle can shoot.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 12:55:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
Who had problems and where?.....hav`nt heard of this........



It was in the Bushmaster group and some others. It was fairly well known and people were sending their magazines back in to have them replaced.

mark
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 12:56:23 PM EDT
Torakan, You are right that I'm not the least bit interested in bashing Olympic Arms products. Just getting the rifle to work is the only goal I/we have.

My son has shown an interest in owning s/a firearms, and I'm just helping him.

He is stopping on his way home today to pick up some Federal XM193 ball ammo to try in the Oly.

I will work with him to get the rifle right, and know that Oly will also.

Tom S. Thanks for returning the sons email contact. We are working to get this rifle right and are following up on your ammo suggestion with Black Hills.

Tom S., Wade or others if you have any other suggestions they will be appreciated very much.

Thanks, Scrappy
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 7:58:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Torakan:
<snip>
Both Oly rifles I have owned were just not up to the quality of other AR15s on the market, thus I have owned and shot Oly products and can voice my opinion regarding my experiences.
<snip>



A couple questions:

Did you send the rifles to Olympic Arms and have them fixed?

How did the third one work?

mark
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 8:39:24 PM EDT
unrelated to the OLY stuff but i have a newer bushy 10rd mag and when i use the charging handle it won't feed..at all.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 3:46:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By inferno715:
unrelated to the OLY stuff but i have a newer bushy 10rd mag and when i use the charging handle it won't feed..at all.

Geesh.....glad the ones I bought all work o-k.......
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:08:39 AM EDT
budam, the first rifle, a 9mm preban went back to Oly 3 times and still did'nt work right. The 2nd I fixed myself and traded it in on a preban Colt, The 3rd and 4th rifles were a Bushmaster and another Colt. No problems with them.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 12:18:01 PM EDT
I had the same problem on my latest Oly. It just took some rounds going through it to loosen it up and get everything settled. Works perfectly now.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 1:59:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torakan:
budam, the first rifle, a 9mm preban went back to Oly 3 times and still did'nt work right. The 2nd I fixed myself and traded it in on a preban Colt, The 3rd and 4th rifles were a Bushmaster and another Colt. No problems with them.



I must have misunderstood a previous message where you said you had 3 Olympic rifles.

Can you share with us the problem you had with the 9mm, what Olympic did and what you felt they should have done?

mark
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 11:21:32 PM EDT
I had a few problems myself when I first got into AR's...

AR's are VERY mag & ammo sensitive, PERIOD...

Pop the mags open & check for fatigued springs...
I've been lucky with just giving them a quick stretch to freshen them a bit...
Spring free length should be 1-1/2 - 2 times the length of the mag...

Green mag followers are sometimes a big help...They have an extra long "leg" under them to keep the follower from tilting in the mag...

Check the mag bodies for dents in the sides that could be hanging up the follower...

Get rid of the Black hills hunting ammo, and get ahold of some good "hot" military 5.56 ammo...

Every AR-15 I've owned, gave me trouble with hunting ammo...
.223 hunting brass is too thin, and hunting bullets have extremely thin jackets...
One or the other WILL get wedged in the AR feed ramps and jam...Trust me...

I've had very good success with Winchester Q3131A ammo...
I'm not positive, but I believe this stuff runs at 3100-3300 FPS...

Never chrono'd any 5.56 military ammo, but there is a noticeable difference from one "mil-spec" load to another...

Chances are, with only 100 rounds through this gun, it's not even close to "broken-in" yet...

I'd say 500+ and things will smooth out a little...

1000+ rounds, and it will shoot & cycle smooth as butter...

Best juice for inside the gun is "break-free" CLP...
It comes in a little black & yellow bottle, or a spray can...

Best thing I've ever used...
Your AR will love it...
All my guns are swimming in this stuff...
Very slippery & thin lube/cleaner in one bottle...
Makes cleaning a breeze too...

Another little secret that seems to work for me...

Take the bolt/carrier assy apart, and run the bolt locking lugs under a bench mounted wire wheel...
That helps to "polish" the lugs a little, and helps to "smoothen" lock-up & un-lock in the barrel extension when the bolt closes & opens...

Just remember there are a lot of fresh machined parts in there with sharp edges that 'gotta run close together...
Anyplace you can "de-burr" these edges will only help reliability...

I never had any problems with another AR after learning of these few simple fixes...

As far as "mis-aligned" gas rings, I personally think that's a bunch of crap...
I've NEVER experienced a problem due to the ring gaps being all together...
I can't even begin to count how many times I've pulled a bolt out of a perfectly good running gun, only to find all three ring gaps aligned together...
This is a "gas-ring" myth in my humble opinion...



Hope that helps you guys out a little...
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 6:36:19 AM EDT
1 problem that I find common is a lack of lubrication on the bolt and carrier assy, and yes, the gas rings.

Clean per the -10 and lube that BCA.

Del
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 2:58:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
As far as "mis-aligned" gas rings, I personally think that's a bunch of crap...
I've NEVER experienced a problem due to the ring gaps being all together...
I can't even begin to count how many times I've pulled a bolt out of a perfectly good running gun, only to find all three ring gaps aligned together...
This is a "gas-ring" myth in my humble opinion...



I have seen it at least 3 times in the last couple years - on M16's.

You need to get out and do more shooting! :-)

mark
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