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Posted: 11/6/2022 7:42:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#1]
@jwramp
Pic of a civilian RAID-Xe sticker. How is this able to legally be above 0.7 mW? 640nm - 4.3 mW 840nm - 32 mW 850nm - 5 mW  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 11/7/2022 9:10:25 PM EDT
[#2]
No clue but its promising for a civ model.
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Posted: 11/7/2022 9:26:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dangrullon87: No clue but its promising for a civ model. Someone with the NV Users Facebook group got theirs today and is gonna be posting up a comparison between it and the MAWL C1+ soon. Worst case, mine arrives Wednesday. 
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Posted: 11/7/2022 10:10:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#4]
Not my vid.
Yeah, the civilian RAID-Xe absolutely fucks. Turn on captions. Civilian RAID-Xe always on left. Full power RAID-Xe on right then Civilian MAWL on right later in vid. ETA: he said the civilian RAID-Xe illuminator is only focused to about halfway in that vid and it goes down even smaller.  Failed To Load Title |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/7/2022 10:16:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: Not my vid. Yeah, the civilian RAID-Xe absolutely fucks.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcz9uc_Xgw4Unfortunate he didn't label which is which, I think I can tell the FP version only because it's laser beam was solid like you would expect of a full power unit and the illuminator overpowered the other's illuminator. |
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Posted: 11/7/2022 10:19:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doge_hound_57: Unfortunate he didn't label which is which, I think I can tell the FP version only because it's laser beam was solid like you would expect of a full power unit and the illuminator overpowered the other's illuminator. If you turn on captions I did label them! |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/7/2022 10:22:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sveesix: If you turn on captions I did label them! Ah, I never use or need that feature/function. Will do, thanks. |
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Posted: 11/7/2022 10:30:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sveesix: If you turn on captions I did label them! Glad to to see you here! The NV world is a small one! Thanks for the vids! |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/8/2022 12:40:40 PM EDT
[#9]
That thing is awesome looking in the videos. Big thank you for that video.
I've heard that the clicker for modes isn't very tactile and that the one hard flip cover on the front is a PITA (maybe it gets easier over time). Proprietary switch. Ungodly expensive. I'm going to wait and see if the EOTech LAM is nice and then make a decision between it and the Raid Xe. I'm sure the programming option is nice, but I just need really a meat and potatoes VCSEL that will give me good illumination in a light weight small form factor. |
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Posted: 11/8/2022 10:48:53 PM EDT
[#10]
When manipulating the RAIDs in the videos, he has to set them down or whatever it sounds and looks like. The MAWL? He runs that bitch one handed on the fly. Tells me all I need to know, and what I strongly suspected.
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Posted: 11/8/2022 10:57:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnDough: When manipulating the RAIDs in the videos, he has to set them down or whatever it sounds and looks like. The MAWL? He runs that bitch one handed on the fly. Tells me all I need to know, and what I strongly suspected. I have a MAWL, 2 full power PEQ-15s, and I ordered one of these. Outside of a flat range, I do not like the MAWL for my particular use-case, which is on a suppressed lightweight 10.3" AR. Mainly due to weight and support side shooting compatibility, as well as interference with white lights with no pressure switches. The MAWL kicks ass- but it's got a ton of weaknesses IRL outside the flat range, and I prefer more traditional PEQ box style lasers for actually doing things. YMMV. I think the MAWL will still remain Supreme in an assaulter style role, due to switchology that's undeniably streamlined. But it lacks ambidextrous capabilities that other units such as the NGAL, RAID, LA5 offer without needing a tape switch, which is 100% always the first thing that breaks in my experiences. I'm just glad to see more options for the consumer, and I'm glad there's an IR unit to fit different requirements for people's individual needs. |
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Posted: 11/9/2022 8:19:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#12]
Civilian power RAID-Xe demo.
Got mine today and tested it out earlier - it's way better than the video Goonin Gear posted below. Full moon night, distance to left tree is 100y- Again - not my video.  Wilcox RAID Xe Commercial Model (Eye Safe/Civilian) Demo |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2022 11:01:53 AM EDT
[#13]
To me the MAWL is just too big and heavy for what I want and yes the issue of it hanging off the side rather than a traditional PEQ box style is something I don't care for.
When I'm spending MAWL type money I'm really picky and want what I want exactly. I don't like to compromise when it comes to $3K + items. |
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Posted: 11/10/2022 6:00:28 PM EDT
[#14]
$3500 is a tough pill to swallow regardless if it’s the Wilcox or a MAWL.
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Posted: 11/10/2022 8:08:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: To me the MAWL is just too big and heavy for what I want and yes the issue of it hanging off the side rather than a traditional PEQ box style is something I don't care for. When I'm spending MAWL type money I'm really picky and want what I want exactly. I don't like to compromise when it comes to $3K + items. You'd like the RAID-Xe in that case. I don't remember who in this thread said it didn't outperform the MAWL, but my results are definitely different than theirs lmao. The illuminator and laser on the civilian RAID-Xe is definitely more powerful than my C1+ MAWL, and the illuminator on the RAID-Xe focuses down much smaller than the MAWL.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/10/2022 9:51:04 PM EDT
[#16]
What was the price on these?
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2022 11:25:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Yeah, it performs. I don’t care. The price is absurd.
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Posted: 11/10/2022 11:49:48 PM EDT
[#18]
There is so much more to performance than just brightness.
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Posted: 11/11/2022 4:41:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mah827: What was the price on these? About $3600. |
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Posted: 11/11/2022 6:47:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: There is so much more to performance than just brightness. In my opinion, it outperforms my MAWL in every category except switching and remote port compatibility. Illuminator reaches further and focuses down tighter. It's lighter. The lasers and illuminator are centered to the bore. Just a few things off the top of my head. Just my 2 cents comparing them directly over the last few nights. The videos on the internet aren't doing really doing it justice, IMO. |
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Posted: 11/11/2022 6:47:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mah827: What was the price on these? I paid $3500 from NVI. |
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Posted: 11/11/2022 8:10:01 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: In my opinion, it outperforms my MAWL in every category except switching and remote port compatibility. Illuminator reaches further and focuses down tighter. It's lighter. The lasers and illuminator are centered to the bore. Just a few things off the top of my head. Just my 2 cents comparing them directly over the last few nights. The videos on the internet aren't doing really doing it justice, IMO. All of this. The only thing the Mawl has over it is the switchology. The laser and Illuminator clearly outperforms the Mawl. |
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Posted: 11/11/2022 8:49:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sveesix: All of this. The only thing the Mawl has over it is the switchology. The laser and Illuminator clearly outperforms the Mawl. Yup. I think people are just having a hard time believing the MAWL has a competitor now. I get it- for civilian lasers, the MAWL has reigned king for years. I think once these things get out there more, they're going to be extremely popular. You get an NGAL-sized laser that's powerful as heck, lighter and outperforms the MAWL in every aspect except switching and pressure switch options. Again, I want to reiterate- the videos out there right now of these, do NOT do the civilian RAID-Xe justice. It's absolutely insane in person. I live in a huge metropolitan city where I look out my window and see 25 story tall buildings. The RAID-Xe was cutting thru the light pollution and reaching stuff my triple click MAWL C1+ would not when in long range mode. |
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Posted: 11/11/2022 9:36:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: Yup. I think people are just having a hard time believing the MAWL has a competitor now. I get it- for civilian lasers, the MAWL has reigned king for years. I think once these things get out there more, they're going to be extremely popular. You get an NGAL-sized laser that's powerful as heck, lighter and outperforms the MAWL in every aspect except switching and pressure switch options. Again, I want to reiterate- the videos out there right now of these, do NOT do the civilian RAID-Xe justice. It's absolutely insane in person. I live in a huge metropolitan city where I look out my window and see 25 story tall buildings. The RAID-Xe was cutting thru the light pollution and reaching stuff my triple click MAWL C1+ would not when in long range mode. Yeah my attempt at videos sucked. It really is a no brainer in person. When you’re looking at the same price range for both makes no sense not to get the RAID Xe and wait until a better switch solution comes out. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/11/2022 10:55:39 AM EDT
[#25]
I am excited, but now the the prospect of the EOTech LAM coming out in 2023 (supposedly March is their goal) and for a reported cost of $1300 (there are rumors it will be closer to $2, but only rumors) I'm going to wait and see how both LAMs stack up against each other.
My hope is that competition will drive prices down, but I doubt that Wilcox will ever come down a penny given their history. Perhaps though we could see LAMs like the MAWL and D2 come down in price to be more competitive? At any rate, more options is good for the consumer. The MAWL is great, but it doesn't fit every single person's needs and wants perfectly. |
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Posted: 11/11/2022 1:06:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: I paid $3500 from NVI. I guess I will be sticking with my FP. Maybe the new Eotech option will be more affordable. At $3500 I’m going to put it my piggy bank and save for binos. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/11/2022 3:24:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mah827: I guess I will be sticking with my FP. Maybe the new Eotech option will be more affordable. At $3500 I’m going to put it my piggy bank and save for binos. I hear ya. $3,500 is a lot of coin. EOTech and big old MAYBE by the end of 2024 the Blazer VCSEL IR LAM might come out. Plus, there is the Villain Weapons Systems now for the ATPIAL C to make that useable and he's working on other things I imagine. I think 2024 will be a much better year for the Night Vision consumer. |
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Posted: 11/11/2022 6:03:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNVC: Understood and thank you. We continue to always put the commerical users on the forefront of getting restricted gear UNrestricted. So far we accomplished the following... - First ever IR laser varience with Laser Devices Inc. (Now Steiner) - First commercial ÀTPIAL-C release through L3 Harris/Insight - First commercial release of the GPNVG through L3/Harris - First commerical release of the ECOTI through Optics 1 (Safran Optics) - First full commerical release of the L3/Harris family of products, PVS-31's, 1531's and the M914's. I might have missed a few more BUT WE'RE NOT DONE!  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNVC: Originally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: I know Vic, and honestly if it wasn't for you and Matt Meyers we'd have nothing at all. Credit where credit is due. You guys have probably sold a literal Army Group size worth of LAMs to civilians over the years and it is appreciated. Just love to see some civi NGLS units and other small and feature rich LAMs like the Raid Xe. Understood and thank you. We continue to always put the commerical users on the forefront of getting restricted gear UNrestricted. So far we accomplished the following... - First ever IR laser varience with Laser Devices Inc. (Now Steiner) - First commercial ÀTPIAL-C release through L3 Harris/Insight - First commercial release of the GPNVG through L3/Harris - First commerical release of the ECOTI through Optics 1 (Safran Optics) - First full commerical release of the L3/Harris family of products, PVS-31's, 1531's and the M914's. I might have missed a few more BUT WE'RE NOT DONE! TNVC is undeniably cutting edge in this and several other categories. Props, Vic and Crew! |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/11/2022 8:05:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: TNVC is undeniably cutting edge in this and several other categories. Props, Vic and Crew! Definitely have to give them a huge thumbs up for that. Huge. |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 11:19:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Just snagged another civilian RAID-Xe. This time in black.
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Posted: 11/13/2022 12:32:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: Just snagged another civilian RAID-Xe. This time in black. Damn bro. |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 1:16:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sveesix: Damn bro. In my defense I don't have a lot of guns. But the ones I do have, get the absolute best.  I sold my MAWL and snagged this 2nd RAID-Xe. So I'm only $450 and some change out of pocket for this one.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2022 1:43:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: In my defense I don't have a lot of guns. But the ones I do have, get the absolute best. I sold my MAWL and snagged this 2nd RAID-Xe. So I'm only $450 and some change out of pocket for this one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: Originally Posted By sveesix: Damn bro. In my defense I don't have a lot of guns. But the ones I do have, get the absolute best. I sold my MAWL and snagged this 2nd RAID-Xe. So I'm only $450 and some change out of pocket for this one. Civilian RAID-Xe's or FP? |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 2:10:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: Civilian RAID-Xe's or FP? Civilian. |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 3:49:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: Civilian RAID-Xe's or FP? I think I’m the only one with a full power aside from Cory. |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 4:47:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sveesix: I think I’m the only one with a full power aside from Cory. Gonna be honest with ya man. Based on your vid, I'm just not that impressed with the full power one compared to the civilian one. Or maybe its just because the civilian one is so damn good.
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Posted: 11/13/2022 4:59:37 PM EDT
[#37]
So- used at peq 15s are coming
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Posted: 11/13/2022 5:21:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By centermass181: So- used at peq 15s are coming Brand new full power PEQ-15s are still $1100 less than these. I got both of mine brand new for $2400 each. I wouldn't touch any full power stuff that's been used. Huge gamble compared to ponying up $2400 for a brand new one from the various sources. The full power PEQ-15 is still best bargain if you don't want a DBAL-D2 and don't care about warranty/repairs. HEAT no longer repairs PEQ-15s, so if it breaks, RIP. As for these - they compete with the MAWL price-wise, yet outperform it in every area but switchology (IMO), so I think B.E. Meyers is probably re-evaluating another ridiculous price hike, which they always do the first of the year. If they hike it another $400 to make it $4K, people are going to just buy these instead. ETA-  Attached File |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:07:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pyle_Made_Sgt]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: I have a MAWL, 2 full power PEQ-15s, and I ordered one of these. Outside of a flat range, I do not like the MAWL for my particular use-case, which is on a suppressed lightweight 10.3" AR. Mainly due to weight and support side shooting compatibility, as well as interference with white lights with no pressure switches. The MAWL kicks ass- but it's got a ton of weaknesses IRL outside the flat range, and I prefer more traditional PEQ box style lasers for actually doing things. YMMV. I think the MAWL will still remain Supreme in an assaulter style role, due to switchology that's undeniably streamlined. But it lacks ambidextrous capabilities that other units such as the NGAL, RAID, LA5 offer without needing a tape switch, which is 100% always the first thing that breaks in my experiences. I'm just glad to see more options for the consumer, and I'm glad there's an IR unit to fit different requirements for people's individual needs. Two things you said that confuse me: How does a MAWL have “IRL” shortcomings outside of a flat range as opposed to other MFALs? The laser emitters put energy down range in the same manner as any other. You also realize that the MAWL is fielded by SF/tier 1 units all over the world? Not to mention it’s currently still the only MFAL with a SWIR variant for covert operations. Also, how does the MAWL lack ambidextrous capabilities without the use of a tape switch? The MAWL comes apart and can be reassembled in reverse to be used in the exact same manner for left handed shooters. I’m either missing something here or you haven’t actually used a MAWL. |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:12:13 PM EDT
[#40]
If you have small hands it can be hard to use a MAWL with both hands interchangeably. For some people that’s a major concern.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:17:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pyle_Made_Sgt: Two things you said that confuse me: How does a MAWL have shortcomings outside of a flat range as opposed to other MFALs? The laser emitters put energy down range in the same manner as any other. How does the MAWL lack ambidextrous capabilities without the use of a tape switch? The MAWL comes apart and can be reassembled in reverse to be used in the exact same manner for left handed shooters. I’m either missing something here or you haven’t actually used a MAWL. You must really train a lot to be able to break down the MAWL, mount it on the other side, zero it, every time you come to a corner or position that requires you to switch from your dominant shooting side to your weak side. Color me impressed! |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:19:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pyle_Made_Sgt: Two things you said that confuse me: How does a MAWL have shortcomings outside of a flat range as opposed to other MFALs? The laser emitters put energy down range in the same manner as any other. How does the MAWL lack ambidextrous capabilities without the use of a tape switch? The MAWL comes apart and can be reassembled in reverse to be used in the exact same manner for left handed shooters. I’m either missing something here or you haven’t actually used a MAWL. I don't care what "tIeR oNE" units are using. I buy what works for *me*....not what's popular in Nightvision Users Group 2.0 or Instagram. Tell me you have obviously have never practiced transitions and shooting support side with a MAWL, without telling me you have obviously have never practiced transitions and shooting support side with a MAWL. You must be one of those dudes who thinks only "operators" should be practicing anything more that shooting on a lane in the dark. I've never used a MAWL? LMAO. Here's mine. Where's yours?  Attached FileHere's one of my full power PEQ-15s too-  Attached FileHere's my RAID-Xe -  Attached FileI literally own these. I'm not being a fan boy here because I paid $3500 for my Xe. I'm expressing my opinions. Furthermore- my job entails using NV and IR lasers when it's dark. So I'm just speaking my opinions with experience that formed said opinions. 
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:20:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: If you have small hands it can be hard to use a MAWL with both hands interchangeably. For some people that’s a major concern. This. I wear medium gloves. I pretty much had to use the MAWL as a VFG and hold the weapon canted when transitioning and activating the A or B buttons. With that said, I've literally had people who are emotionally attached to their lifeless IR laser that I guess gives them personality, tell me - "well just don't do transitions". 
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:21:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yeet-Cannon]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AIWB: You must really train a lot to be able to break down the MAWL, mount it on the other side, zero it, every time you come to a corner or position that requires you to switch from your dominant shooting side to your weak side. Color me impressed! Just gotta call a ceasefire and break it down, bro. Problem solved. I mean I guess that's what the Tier 1 bros are doing with it! |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:41:20 PM EDT
[#45]
@Yeet-Cannon Your original comment was very vague in describing what you meant. I now understand (as I said maybe I was missing something here) that you were referencing transitions back and forth from non dominant hand shooting. In any case I’m still curious as to why you find it useless outside of a flat range. And I you can quit with trying to be a Facebook page flex nerd, we don’t do that in here. I own a MAWL DA, LA-5, an IZLID, GLARE MOUT Plus and am waiting on my full power raid xe. Not trying to take away from the eye safe raid xe here because it’s proven to be amazing so far. But was seeking clarity in what you said.
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:46:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pyle_Made_Sgt: @Yeet-Cannon Your original comment was very vague in describing what you meant. I now understand (as I said maybe I was missing something here) that you were referencing transitions back and forth from non dominant hand shooting. In any case I’m still curious as to why you find it useless outside of a flat range. And I you can quit with trying to be a Facebook page flex nerd, we don’t do that in here. I own a MAWL DA, LA-5, an IZLID, GLARE MOUT Plus and am waiting on my full power raid xe. Not trying to take away from the eye safe raid xe here because it’s proven to be amazing so far. But was seeking clarity in what you said. Fair enough. Your comment came off like a snarky comment. So my apologies for misinterpretation. I guess we both just had a misunderstanding. As for Facebook flex nerd? No man. I posted my stuff to show I'm not just talking out my ass, and that I own the things I'm comparing the RAID to. Too many people on the internet give opinions on things that they don't know or haven't used/own, so that's why I posted them up. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:47:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pyle_Made_Sgt]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: This. I wear medium gloves. I pretty much had to use the MAWL as a VFG and hold the weapon canted when transitioning and activating the A or B buttons. With that said, I've literally had people who are emotionally attached to their lifeless IR laser that I guess gives them personality, tell me - "well just don't do transitions". I’ve seen lots of shooters with small hands just grip the MAWL instead of both the MAWL and their weapon handguard and it works great and still allows them to press both buttons with ease. Being made of aluminum, the MAWL can be braced against when shooting weak hand and hold a zero, at least in my experience. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:49:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pyle_Made_Sgt]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yeet-Cannon: Fair enough. Your comment came off like a snarky comment. So my apologies for misinterpretation. I guess we both just had a misunderstanding. As for Facebook flex nerd? No man. I posted my stuff to show I'm not just talking out my ass, and that I own the things I'm comparing the RAID to. Too many people on the internet give opinions on things that they don't know or haven't used/own, so that's why I posted them up. Fair enough as well man, apologies for the seemingly snarky content as text comes without emotion and for the misunderstanding. I’m glad you like your class 3R raid xe. Can’t wait to try mine! And I agree, the amount of people who talk about these units and have never actually owned them is staggering, and annoying lol. |
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:53:24 PM EDT
[#49]
If someone were to take the form factor and layout of the Raid and put the activation button top dead center and a switch on the side between short medium and long range settings…that’s the best of both worlds. As for me I have a MAWL and no loyalty.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2022 9:59:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: If someone were to take the form factor and layout of the Raid and put the activation button top dead center and a switch on the side between short medium and long range settings…that’s the best of both worlds. As for me I have a MAWL and no loyalty. I would agree on the raid, the adjustability and sheer illuminator performance hold it pretty high, the ergonomics not so much. But, once unity or modlite comes out with a switch for it I’ll be more sold. The ERGOCTO switches from Wilcox just don’t impress me, no M-LOK capability for starters. |
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