Right now I am building up my NV capabilities, and am currently using an OTAL combined with the Surefire 952v for IR laser and illumination. It's great, and without having personally used anything higher dollar, I don't feel limited when it comes to blasting targets under NODs quickly and efficiently. The only major shortcoming of the setup is no slaved visible laser for easier zeroing, and slightly more complex manual of arms because each device is controlled independently. Additionally I have become aware of potential issues with the 952v flickering which is an annoyance.

Right now, I'm capable of upgrading my capabilities, but I'm just not sure it makes sense for me to given I only have NODs to train with and because someday I'm sure the .gov won't want people like me to have them. My current feeling is that the 952v is the weak point in my setup because I have noticed it flicker sometimes despite the batteries being fresh.

Is there any better product or combo of products less than $800 that would be better than OTAL/952v?

The flickering is a well known issue with the M952V. Some folks have sent theirs back to Surefire and gotten them either repaired or replaced with upgraded models.

Within your price range, the DBAL-I² Single Spectrum would be a great increase to your capabilities, MSRP is around $780, and you can often find them on sale for cheaper.

The I² won't have a slaved visible laser, but it will have an onboard laser-based illuminator, and you will be able to control it with a single device control. This would also allow you to get a better dedicated white light, rather than working with the reduced power of a Vampire model.

The combination of an integrated LAM/good white light/good device controls will pay great dividends for usability over your current setup.

~Augee

Thanks - you always have very informative posts. I wasn't aware the I2 had any illumination and always thought it was solely for pointing/aiming. This could be an option.

The I² comes in two civilian variants, the dual-spectrum and the single-spectrum.

The dual spectrum comes with an IR aiming laser and a visible aiming laser, while the single spectrum comes with an IR aiming laser and an IR illuminator.

The original restricted power I² was designed to replicate the function of the AN/PEQ-2A in a smaller form factor, the single-spectrum is just a Class I version of it.

~Augee

Something else I was considering was trying an OTAL-IR and Inforce WMLx Gen 2 white/IR light. All in this is ~$500 solution. Downsides are that the WMLx has no tape switch capability. I currently just utilize the 952v with the end cap. It's interesting to me that even though I could spend lots of money on the latest and greatest, training to be capable with somewhat lower end set ups might be valuable some day.

A DBAL 9007 IR/IR is a good set up but IMHO the illuminator is better suited for indoor/short outside distances depending on the additional surrounding light/moon/star light. Using additional IR light from your M952V is useful out to @ 100-125 yards. Your IR laser can easily be overlapped to your RDS's zero at night so having an onboard collimated laser is not necessary. The strobing effect that develops is something that SureFire will take care of under their lifetime guarantee. Having white light available at a moments notice is advisable, but not absolutely needed in a non HD/duty use. If your looking for IR illuminator built into a single unit with a built in IR/Visible laser that can reach out past 700+ yards as well as indoors look into a either a DBAL D2 or MAWL-C1+

I was in your exact shoes a few years ago.  OTAL & Vampire was a good combo, but had it's drawbacks.  I sold them both and bought a DBAL 9007 (i2), and about a year ago bought a DBAL D2 (IR LED illuminator with IR aiming laser slaved with visible green laser).

Looking back, I wish I'd jumped straight to the D2.  The LED illuminator blows away anything else I've used, and the slaved laser makes zeroing/confirming zero easy as pie.

The D2 can be had around $1,000 if you shop around the EE.  It's definitely a buy once, cry once proposition, but I'm pretty sure you'll be happy you did.  Check videos comparing the i2 to the D2.  Both are solid units, but for about $300 more you can have a much better IR illuminator and a slaved visible laser.

edited to add:  for example, I just found a used black D2 on ebay for $1060 shipped.  eBay item number:292306324476

Has anybody explored the idea of using the DBAL-PL on a long gun?

Yes but with the button layout it's not a good option. I've also used a SureFire X400V-B-IRC and while the IR illuminator/white light (350 lumens) rivals the M952V/M622V it isn't  a bad option. The main concern I'd have is the ability for it to hold zero over a extended period of time.

I'm listing my D2 for less than that in a few days or as soon as I get the chance too.

Can I ask what you're looking to replace it with?

I could buy a MAWL but it just doesn't make sense for me.

The only replacement for me would be a MAWL C1+ and your correct it doesn't make much sense due to the illuminator being about the same power as well as being just as heavy. The only real significant difference is the ability to go from a CQB IR illuminator setting to a long range mode with a push of a button. For me it's more of a want than a necessity which I don't recommend at all unless you have 1,500 plus to blow just to have the option to switch modes on the fly vs taking an extra 2 seconds to turn the selector knob and achieve the same result.

First order of business is to send the 952v back to Surefire. They will probably replace it with a 600v.

I have a combo OTAL & 600v that works great on a hunting rig, the switches are located so I can easily go between Illum+laser, to laser only, instantly. It helps a lot when taking shots, sometimes I get better contrast without the illuminator.

The downsides are the stupid style of zeroing knobs on the OTAL, and the fact that you can't go from illuminator+laser instantly to white light.

One thing it may be useful to define is what type of role/use you're looking to fulfill with your NV rig.

While hunting and "tactical" uses can overlap in many ways as is commonly seen in this subforum, there are still some differences depending on what your primary use will be.

While the DBAL-D² most certainly has a better illuminator than Class I laser-based illuminators, in addition to its size and weight, and IMHO terrible, non-ambidextrous "FIRE" button location, the D² also trades off more visible signature from the illuminator when used relative to a laser based illuminator. For many, this is a non-issue, but for others, it could be.

The same is true for having an independent white light that you do not use for aiming with the laser--the truth of the matter is, that many, if not most close-in fights still happen with white lights, even during an NV operation, giving up the ability to immediately go to white light is something that I would think long and hard about if the possibility of that kind of activity is a consideration, it's one thing to use a separate IR nav light/fill light (the way IR filters, things like the WMX200, etc. are used) versus a "fighting light," and also worth consideration is that pretty much any dual spectrum light is going to have a less powerful white light than its white light-only counterpart.

For a hunting rig, the whole setup/philosophy of engagement and equipment setup with visual augmentation systems may be totally different than "force on force" scenarios.

Also, as a final note--while IR illuminators are an extremely important capability, and in some circumstances (often with servicemembers), users will use them entirely not enough, it is also true that you don't need/want to use them 100% of the time for every single engagement.

~Augee

Although it may look stupid, you can always add an additional white light to your already existing OTAL-C and M952V setup or at least have the option to mount one. Even in a hunting application white light not only lets you see, but also can blind/disorient charging game.

Assuming you are right-handed -

You can set up the WML for thumb activation at 10 o'clock, and set up the pressure pad for finger activation at 3 o'clock, and hit both at the same time with a reasonable shooting grip.   It can help to mount a handstop forward of the tape switch at 3 o'clock to protect it from impacts.

Downsides to this:

- The WML IR output is sort of absurd compared to what you're probably used to.   It's like a hydrogen bomb going off, and it's a flood, not a spot.   If you have anything in the foreground like tall grass/brush/tree branches, you are going to blow out your ability to see beyond them.    If you're talking about use in built up areas with lots of ambient light or open desert, this may not be an issue.

- You are not going to get really fast access to white light

- The WML is not going to be left-hand friendly, though you can use the laser still easily.

Other options:

Get a DBAL I2 (or better).   You can either use the switch on top of the unit and the button on the back of your white light (mounted 10 o'clock), or you can get a SF or TNVC TAPS switch.   The tape switch allows you to get white light or laser/illum without really shifting your grip and is ambi-friendly if mounted at 12 o'clock.

Downsides to this:   cost.

Honestly, you can do without the vis laser, particularly if you have a TM14 mount so you can compare your laser vs. an NV compatible red dot.

Over black friday with the discounts I scored an I2 single spectrum for $570 shipped from optics planet. Was pretty happy with that and I look forward to using it. Thanks very much to everyone in this thread who commented and guided me to this option. I'll also likely be getting the Inforce WMLx Gen 2 White/IR as a Christmas present - even though its not a fantastic option, the current Surefire lineup is far more than I would expect anyone in my family to consider getting me as a gift, so I figure a gifted WMLx wouldn't hurt even if I don't end up loving it.

Great deal on a great unit.  It will serve you well.  I got a "deal" on mine and paid about $100 more than you did, so you definitely found a bargain.

Lol, yeah, it's horrible. I tried it on my SBR, but it sucked. So I put it on my CWOCK as god intended.

I had one on my CWOCK too, but it kept losing zero and the switches went bad, and all kinds of crazy shit always seemed to happen to it. I'm about to sell it to an airsofter this weekend.