Armory Sponsor
Posted: 3/28/2016 12:55:18 PM EDT
|
Stupid question. Can you read things written in pencil while using night vision?
I am a pilot and we are getting NVGs for work and some of my quick reference stuff I have is written in pencil. Wondering if I should do it all in pen. |
|
Quoted:
Stupid question. Can you read things written in pencil while using night vision? I am a pilot and we are getting NVGs for work and some of my quick reference stuff I have is written in pencil. Wondering if I should do it all in pen. Keep it in pen....Some so-called lead pencils (not like the old days) will not show up to well. Also, there is FOD hazard in the cockpit using pencils as well so I would steer clear. We used to offer a NV pen specifically for pilots awhile back. A Tomcat driver designed the pen which was great for writing on knee-boards etc. Let me see if I can find his info. I found out this pilot stopped making the the NV pens, but these are out there. I have not tried these, especially with NOD's. I would look at the green or red, but they may be too bright for NODS. Amazon also has these as well, but once again not sure how well these will work with NOD's. The original pen from the Tomcat driver was exclusively made for NOD's. Vic |
|
Quoted:
Don't really need a light source. We have map lights and I intend to get a NVG rated lip light. Just curious if pencil isn't washed out because of contrast issues or something like that. I don't know your lightning conditions, but seems pencil shows up just fine. Tried to change the light direction if it wouldn't show up from a certain angle, but didn't notice anything odd during a fast check. |
|
Quoted:
Don't really need a light source. We have map lights and I intend to get a NVG rated lip light. Just curious if pencil isn't washed out because of contrast issues or something like that. As mentioned be careful of the FOD dangers with lead pencils. Pen is always preferable for cockpit flight operations |
|
Quoted:
As mentioned be careful of the FOD dangers with lead pencils. Pen is always preferable for cockpit flight operations Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't really need a light source. We have map lights and I intend to get a NVG rated lip light. Just curious if pencil isn't washed out because of contrast issues or something like that. As mentioned be careful of the FOD dangers with lead pencils. Pen is always preferable for cockpit flight operations This doesn't make any sense |
|
Quoted:
This doesn't make any sense Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't really need a light source. We have map lights and I intend to get a NVG rated lip light. Just curious if pencil isn't washed out because of contrast issues or something like that. As mentioned be careful of the FOD dangers with lead pencils. Pen is always preferable for cockpit flight operations This doesn't make any sense Foreign Object Debris or Foreign Object Damage. I'm not sure why a pencil would be more dangerous than a pen but, I'm no expert in aviation either. |
|
Quoted:
Foreign Object Debris or Foreign Object Damage. I'm not sure why a pencil would be more dangerous than a pen but, I'm no expert in aviation either. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't really need a light source. We have map lights and I intend to get a NVG rated lip light. Just curious if pencil isn't washed out because of contrast issues or something like that. As mentioned be careful of the FOD dangers with lead pencils. Pen is always preferable for cockpit flight operations This doesn't make any sense Foreign Object Debris or Foreign Object Damage. I'm not sure why a pencil would be more dangerous than a pen but, I'm no expert in aviation either. OP is a pilot, so I am probably betting he is familiar with the term. I am guessing he doesn't share the same opinion of what does and doesn't constitute a potential hazard with regard to broken pencil lead in rotary aviation assets. Sir, I've got a couple of skillcrafts I can go check. I think whoever said the new pencils are variable in content probably has it right, but I'm betting Rucker or one of the medflight types would have thrown this in as a tidbit in a powerpoint slide if it were an issue. |
|
I did a mapping project some years ago for a certain surveillance/protection outfit. This involved maps and building rooftop blueprints and some purpose-chosen extra marginal notes, azimuth lines, and legend additions. I found that printed maps and blueprints varied wildly in their usefulness under (Gen 2 at that time) IR. Most were weak or invisible. Same for markers, pens and pencils.
Some of the best performers for stark readability were india ink, some grease pencils/ metal marking pencils (welding shop) , and a few pens. I doubt that digging out my report would have any value today because of likely, intervening formulation changes - some probably driven by VOC requirements of screwy States like California.. I suggest that you have maps copied on a laser printer if the original is not very useful under IR. Most of the fused toners are good in IR. Laser copies have never worked for me, and my color laser copies always included colors that disappeared. The big copy shops have big copiers. If you want to go straight to a known-good writing ink you won't be able to beat solid blue-black India ink from a fountain pen. Many years have passed, and I bet that most current military issued ballpoint pens were loaded with ink chosen for IR blackness. Just a guess tough. |
|
Quoted:
Foreign Object Debris or Foreign Object Damage. I'm not sure why a pencil would be more dangerous than a pen but, I'm no expert in aviation either. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't really need a light source. We have map lights and I intend to get a NVG rated lip light. Just curious if pencil isn't washed out because of contrast issues or something like that. As mentioned be careful of the FOD dangers with lead pencils. Pen is always preferable for cockpit flight operations This doesn't make any sense Foreign Object Debris or Foreign Object Damage. I'm not sure why a pencil would be more dangerous than a pen but, I'm no expert in aviation either. I know what FOD is.  A pencil is no different than a pen.
|
| This may sound very naïve but I would find the focus, re-focusing a problem. You will have to re-focus the NOD from looking out the windshield then transitioning to up close, in cockpit. I find this irritating (I'm not a pilot). Using one of the focusing covers will help but it will probably be too blurry to actually read normal text. My PVS-14 require two hands to focus. Once properly focused, I can read with them. |
|
Quoted:
I know what FOD is. A pencil is no different than a pen.Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't really need a light source. We have map lights and I intend to get a NVG rated lip light. Just curious if pencil isn't washed out because of contrast issues or something like that. As mentioned be careful of the FOD dangers with lead pencils. Pen is always preferable for cockpit flight operations This doesn't make any sense Foreign Object Debris or Foreign Object Damage. I'm not sure why a pencil would be more dangerous than a pen but, I'm no expert in aviation either. I know what FOD is. A pencil is no different than a pen.That constitutes when the lead breaks off etc. and becomes a flight hazard gettting lodged where it's not suppose to? Sorry I don't agree with that logic, no where close espicially with an A/C with sensitive instruments etc. I get it you may not think FOD applies to you being in ROTOR craft (which is dangerous thinking) but never the less FOD in the cockpit is a REAL danger especially for fighter pilot pukes like the guy who designed the early NV pen for this reason not to use any kind of pencil for fear of this reason. Yes I also get an entire pen can be considered a FOD hazard too except it's attempt to use it to mitigate broken tip pieces. |
|
Not a rotor driver, but I do have several hundred hours practicing medicine on board of a helo while wearing NVG's.
Everything in the aircraft that I rotate through is B class NVG rated. Hell even the med gear has been made NVG compatible by our mechanics by installing filters on everything that emits light. This is great for reducing the glare off the inside of the cabin. I have worked in full glass part glass/part steam and full steam cockpitted aircraft. From my seat all AC controls are 100% visible even though I'm behind and to the left of our single pilot in an AS350B3E. The focus issue is where the issues come in. It takes time to get the focus dialed in, where just looking under the goggles to get the info that I need only takes a second and then I'm back outside scanning for hazards. All of the pilots that I have flown with say that they do the same thing, look under the goggles and not messing with the focus. It would be the same with looking at a knee board, I would assume. While there are focus devices out there that are very fast to change I am not aware if they are FAA approved (meaning they are a 100% no-go with out certification). These devices also reduce the aperture and there by the amount of light that they allow in, which would make it even more challenging to spot wires and other bad shit while in flight or transition. In the training that they give you they should cover ad nauseam scanning, both in and out of the aircraft (and for good reasons) this scan has both on goggles and under/around parts to it. Scanning like this helps to avoid IIMC as light fog and scattered layers of clouds are hard to pick out while on goggles and moving through the forming moisture. Everything that we write in our charts (medical) is required to be written in pen so I'm not able to directly answer your pencil question, other to say with good scanning techniques it should not really a issue. |
|
[
You can absolutely read with NVG's I don't recommend reading while flying an aircraft at night under NVG alone. I am army aircrew of 23yrs also enlisted flight instructor 1000+ NVG hours many, many combat hours in Blackhawk A/C type. We write in red pencil, regular #2 mechanical, or regular #2 sharpen type, and black ink. We never refocus the NVG to read with. We use a finger light or lip light and momentarily look below the goggles to do any reading. Then back scanning outside for other hazards. We are trained this way for a reason. And all our rules are written in blood. Meaning somebody usually dies before a new restrictive rule is written. When flying under NVG you really need to keep your eyes outside. You can get spacial disorientation real quick and crash. If you get spacial disorientation you will probably burn up in a post crash fire if somebody is not there to take the controls away from you. It is a fact. Sadly many highly trained military aircrew die every year b/c of spacial disorientation. Also while flying NVG make sure you don't go into any steep turns greater than about 30 degrees under NVG at night. No fast manuevers at all it is bad idea. There are many more restrictive rules we have to obey while under NVG flight. Un-forecasted bad Weather is very easy to fly into at night, and bang you lose your reference with the earth, are now IIMC at night, without warning without proper sectional map out, or correct radio on to talk to the nearest clearance delivery, so you can climb into safer controlled airspace and get vectored for IFR approach and safe landing. And if you do go inadvertent IFR flying NVG take off goggles immediately. Get altitude, airspeed and wings level. The last thing you want to do is take your eyes off of the aircraft instruments in this situation I was not trying to be an ass just trying to keep reply short. hope my reply helps. |
|
I have a little over 170 NVG hours in rotary wing with ANVIS-6 goggles. During that time I don't think I ever once wrote on my kneeboard without the goggles flipped up. If I'm going to be heads down / focused inside the aircraft I'm going to transfer the controls to the other pilot, so I may as well flip up the goggles so I can see what I'm doing. Once complete with the task, goggles come back down and the controls get transferred back.
In any event you won't be able to have the NVGs focused close enough to see what your writing and still see outside the aircraft. You don't want to be fooling with the focus of your NVGs while you're supposed to be flying. 
|
Armory Sponsor