Armory Sponsor
Posted: 2/3/2016 3:56:05 PM EDT
|
I read an article recently about setting up your rifle to fight at night with NV and they recommend a separate white light and IR Illuminator, so that you can quickly transition from IR light to white light.
My question is why? I can’t think of a real world situation where its dark, you're using NV and you decide OK I’m staying concealed by using IR light but instead ill use white light and give away my position. I just ask as have the surefire X400V IRc on my rifle, which requires you to twist the bezel to switch from white light to IR light. I thinking having both is obvious as you may not always have your NV available, but is the rapid transition between the two types of lights really necessary? Thanks, ~S |
|
Quoted:
I read an article recently about setting up your rifle to fight at night with NV and they recommend a separate white light and IR Illuminator, so that you can quickly transition from IR light to white light. My question is why? I can’t think of a real world situation where its dark, you're using NV and you decide OK I’m staying concealed by using IR light but instead ill use white light and give away my position. I just ask as have the surefire X400V IRc on my rifle, which requires you to twist the bezel to switch from white light to IR light. I thinking having both is obvious as you may not always have your NV available, but is the rapid transition between the two types of lights really necessary? Thanks, ~S There's a very real purpose with this for LE. I'll just leave it at that. |
|
I'm a ninja/SEAL/Delta/FBI/SWAT/Whatevs.
It's dark outside and I'm sneakin up on a house, using my NVGs and IR stuff on the way to the house. When I get there the lights are on, so I'll put my NV up before I kick in the door. Now I'm movin through this lit house kickin room doors, but some of the rooms are dark. I want to see in them, but pulling my NV back down would take too long and probably wouldn't be so great since I'm standing in a well-lit room. White light would be pretty handy for that 
Wouldn't be too concerned about giving my position away since I just kicked the door in and I'm standing in the light 
|
|
Quoted:
There's a very real purpose with this for LE. I'll just leave it at that. Quoted:
Quoted:
I read an article recently about setting up your rifle to fight at night with NV and they recommend a separate white light and IR Illuminator, so that you can quickly transition from IR light to white light. My question is why? I can’t think of a real world situation where its dark, you're using NV and you decide OK I’m staying concealed by using IR light but instead ill use white light and give away my position. I just ask as have the surefire X400V IRc on my rifle, which requires you to twist the bezel to switch from white light to IR light. I thinking having both is obvious as you may not always have your NV available, but is the rapid transition between the two types of lights really necessary? Thanks, ~S There's a very real purpose with this for LE. I'll just leave it at that. About as detailed as the article got as well, said its needed but didnt explain why. Care to do a little civilian guy like me a favor and explain why?
|
|
Quoted:
I'm a ninja/SEAL/Delta/FBI/SWAT/Whatevs. It's dark outside and I'm sneakin up on a house, using my NVGs and IR stuff on the way to the house. When I get there the lights are on, so I'll put my NV up before I kick in the door. Now I'm movin through this lit house kickin room doors, but some of the rooms are dark. I want to see in them, but pulling my NV back down would take too long and probably wouldn't be so great since I'm standing in a well-lit room. White light would be pretty handy for that
Wouldn't be too concerned about giving my position away since I just kicked the door in and I'm standing in the light Gotcha, room clearing, makes sense. I'm not a ninja/SEAL/Delta/FBI/SWAT so probably not something I really need to worry about, most of my night time shooting involves eliminating raccoon and making steel targets spin. Ideally being able to transition instantly between white and IR light is best but the surefire is more compact, lighter and cheaper than a multi-light system with several different pressure pads. Maybe ill look more into upgrading my overall NV setup by picking up ATPIAL-C and a Scout light |
|
Quoted: There's a very real purpose with this for LE. I'll just leave it at that. Quoted: Quoted: I read an article recently about setting up your rifle to fight at night with NV and they recommend a separate white light and IR Illuminator, so that you can quickly transition from IR light to white light. My question is why? I can’t think of a real world situation where its dark, you're using NV and you decide OK I’m staying concealed by using IR light but instead ill use white light and give away my position. I just ask as have the surefire X400V IRc on my rifle, which requires you to twist the bezel to switch from white light to IR light. I thinking having both is obvious as you may not always have your NV available, but is the rapid transition between the two types of lights really necessary? Thanks, ~S There's a very real purpose with this for LE. I'll just leave it at that. |
|
Quoted:
lol. so cryptic. I'm sure it's classified. opsec and all... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I read an article recently about setting up your rifle to fight at night with NV and they recommend a separate white light and IR Illuminator, so that you can quickly transition from IR light to white light. My question is why? I can’t think of a real world situation where its dark, you're using NV and you decide OK I’m staying concealed by using IR light but instead ill use white light and give away my position. I just ask as have the surefire X400V IRc on my rifle, which requires you to twist the bezel to switch from white light to IR light. I thinking having both is obvious as you may not always have your NV available, but is the rapid transition between the two types of lights really necessary? Thanks, ~S There's a very real purpose with this for LE. I'll just leave it at that. "L.E.O. OPSEC" I lol'd. Can't be giving away the world's best donut recipe. 
|
|
NVG's can fail.
People can turn on light switches. I'm faster and more accurate with a white light/RDS than I am with NVG's and IR lasers, by a fair margin. So if the stealth/concealment aspect is blown, I'm not using NVG's. Sometimes you need to ditch one tactic and go to another. |
|
Quoted:
NVG's can fail. People can turn on light switches. I'm faster and more accurate with a white light/RDS than I am with NVG's and IR lasers, by a fair margin. So if the stealth/concealment aspect is blown, I'm not using NVG's. Sometimes you need to ditch one tactic and go to another. I can agree with that. Plus depth perception, peripheral vision, situational awareness etc all are gained when switching from NVG's to your white light (partially depending on your beam pattern I suppose) |
| Can you link to the article? It's funny to see this posted because just earlier today I read a comment from someone who I believe is a bona fide subject matter expert on this saying exactly the same thing. Specifically: a rifle mounted white light, plus infrared helmet light specifically for speed of transitioning between IR and white light.. |
|
Quoted:
Gotcha, room clearing, makes sense. I'm not a ninja/SEAL/Delta/FBI/SWAT so probably not something I really need to worry about, most of my night time shooting involves eliminating raccoon and making steel targets spin. Ideally being able to transition instantly between white and IR light is best but the surefire is more compact, lighter and cheaper than a multi-light system with several different pressure pads. Maybe ill look more into upgrading my overall NV setup by picking up ATPIAL-C and a Scout light Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm a ninja/SEAL/Delta/FBI/SWAT/Whatevs. It's dark outside and I'm sneakin up on a house, using my NVGs and IR stuff on the way to the house. When I get there the lights are on, so I'll put my NV up before I kick in the door. Now I'm movin through this lit house kickin room doors, but some of the rooms are dark. I want to see in them, but pulling my NV back down would take too long and probably wouldn't be so great since I'm standing in a well-lit room. White light would be pretty handy for that
Wouldn't be too concerned about giving my position away since I just kicked the door in and I'm standing in the light Gotcha, room clearing, makes sense. I'm not a ninja/SEAL/Delta/FBI/SWAT so probably not something I really need to worry about, most of my night time shooting involves eliminating raccoon and making steel targets spin. Ideally being able to transition instantly between white and IR light is best but the surefire is more compact, lighter and cheaper than a multi-light system with several different pressure pads. Maybe ill look more into upgrading my overall NV setup by picking up ATPIAL-C and a Scout light yep thats the way to go I run the Atpial-c as well as a scout light with vampire head for redundancy although I do leave the head on the white light setting |
|
First off not an operator, or ninja... but I was a platinum elite member at Holiday Inn
NV does not do so well transitioning between distances (manual focus) for inside a house. White light can be so bright as to blind the people it is aimed at (I have not seen too many LE with lights that are dim). NV still needs some amount of light to amplify (in a dark house). NV limits your field of view (FOV) and in a house, when searching quickly, this is not good. NV can be damaged by bright lights, so if you are searching a house and someone turns on a light, you have to transition anyway, and your eyes are not adjusted. White light may give away your postion, but if your suprise, speed and violence of action are high enough, it should not matter much (unless they know your coming and have setup). |
|
Quoted:
NVG's can fail. People can turn on light switches. I'm faster and more accurate with a white light/RDS than I am with NVG's and IR lasers, by a fair margin. So if the stealth/concealment aspect is blown, I'm not using NVG's. Sometimes you need to ditch one tactic and go to another. This is my train of thought as well. I'd rather retain the ability to surprise and blind people with the white light. I now need to find a solution for a decent helmet mounted IR light without having to completely upgrade my ach. |
|
Quoted:
There's a very real purpose with this for LE. I'll just leave it at that. You've said too much already! 
There are a couple of reasons that it is/might be favored to transition quickly between NV/WL, but by far the simplest one is, as others have intimated is that NV gives you the primary advantage of stealth and being able to see your enemy when your enemy cannot see you. Among other things, it often means you get to pick the time and place you fight, and you get to have the first shot. Depending on the situation, once you've started shooting, yelling, busting down doors, blowing things up, or otherwise generally fucking shit up, you've lost a lot of your stealth advantage, and it may behoove you to trade speed, violence, and initiative for stealth--this transition can happen in seconds without any time to switch controls on a device. Sneaky sneaky = NVGs No more sneaky sneaky = white light ~Augee |
|
Just one quick example. Say Clasky and I are maneuvering on you under NODs, you and us are the only ones in the room. As he begins to move to your flank, I say something to you out of the darkness and flash you in the eyes with a bright white light to distract you and completely take away your ability to see.
Or, maybe we are moving stealthfully under NV and the time comes to move quickly and loud, stealth is no longer the priority but speed is. You wouldn't want to have to say time out to switch things over. The bottom line to the reasoning is that it's not an all or nothing thing. We call it Night Fighting, NV is a major tool that gives you an unparalleled advantage but there are many others that you should be able to transition to as seamlessly as possible. I wouldn't recommend anyone to go into a street fight only knowing one kind of punch. |
| White light gives you another very important option. I wouldn't be w/o my X300 or X300 ultra, even though I'm most certainly not an operator. If the gun is going to be on me and may need to be used suddenly then it will have the light on it whether I've got my 14 on my head or not, period. |
|
So in a completely (or mostly) dark environment, such as out in a jungle or tunnel with no one using white light, NV all the way.
Once the enemy turns on some lights and bullets are flying, using white light, intermittently, is much better. Unless you are Delta etc and spend all day and night practicing fighting in NV (and you have the latest gear) you will be much faster and less disoriented by transitioning to white light as soon as contact is made. Naturally, if contact is broken and all the lights go out, go back to NV. |
|
Quoted:
About as detailed as the article got as well, said its needed but didnt explain why. Care to do a little civilian guy like me a favor and explain why?
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I read an article recently about setting up your rifle to fight at night with NV and they recommend a separate white light and IR Illuminator, so that you can quickly transition from IR light to white light. My question is why? I can’t think of a real world situation where its dark, you're using NV and you decide OK I’m staying concealed by using IR light but instead ill use white light and give away my position. I just ask as have the surefire X400V IRc on my rifle, which requires you to twist the bezel to switch from white light to IR light. I thinking having both is obvious as you may not always have your NV available, but is the rapid transition between the two types of lights really necessary? Thanks, ~S There's a very real purpose with this for LE. I'll just leave it at that. About as detailed as the article got as well, said its needed but didnt explain why. Care to do a little civilian guy like me a favor and explain why?
Axe yourself this question: How is white used by LE? There's your answer. It's tough to blind assholes with light they can't see... 
|
|
I have found,
with a good tube, sometimes you can have problems in areas with minimal lighting, and dusk-dawn transitions. In those cases, you can go off nods and use a low lumen navigational light. Sometimes, you may eschew looking through a soup can and just go white light, especially when you think you may be getting shot shortly, as well. Also, why all the discontent towards the leo? If I had a nickel every time a .mil type told me something was classified, I could retire. He didn't feel like sharing a tactic he felt might put other police AND military types at risk. Others didn't see the issue, but no reason to be rude to the guy any more than being rude to a tank that doesn't want to discuss TTP overseas. (shrugs) |
| I realize OP may not be referring to non-bipedal combatants but I'll relate my use of white light FWIW. If I'm on nocturnal pasture patrol and pop a pig that makes it to the brush/woods I approach quietly watching/listening for movement or a dark blob laying somewhere (I don't have thermal, YET). If I can't locate the unfortunate victim from the edge I swivel up the NODS and switch to white light on both my rifle and helmet and switch to the visible red laser on the rifle. That way I have better peripheral vision, can look for blood (I realize hogs seldom leave much if any) and I'm more comfortable with the surroundings to quickly locate and engage anything that bites coming froming my flank, preferably before it decides to graze on my kneecaps. So far they all died before things got interesting except for one out in the open. He was finished off using NODS as were the others that required follow up hits but just needed a finisher and not trying to exact revenge. I've been using my current setup long enough that I can't foresee going out without white light/visible laser capability in addition to NV. |
Armory Sponsor