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Posted: 5/15/2013 3:37:22 PM EDT
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Please allow me to share my thought process for your evaluation:
I have an awful lot of hours using the USGI rhino/J-arm, and can easily manipulate them purely by muscle memory with my eyes closed; this is probably why the Wilcox G24 didn't work out, since it is fundamentally different in many aspects. For me, the USGI rhino/J-arm is not excessively sloppy and fits just fine optical alignment wise, although opportunity for improvement in the regard of streamlining profile when stowed certainly exists. The INVG provides a substantially more streamlined profile when stowed, while retaining the muscle memory related aspects such as force-to-overcome, left side fine pitch control, left side distance from eye control, and right side release from helmet. It also offers the benefit of variable elevation, although the elevation of the USGI stuff works just great for me. I own multiple systems, and the aftermarket mounts are not at all inexpensive. I have already made one costly mistake trying to fix something that essentially isn't broken with the Wilcox mount. That is my bad for not doing proper research. Considering potential interfaces between the INVG and the PVS-14, there appears to be essentially four options: 1) Norotos dual dovetail – I tried it down in Victoria, and optical alignment quite simply did not work for me. At least I learned one thing from the Wilcox foray, i.e.try stuff out directly before spending lots of $$$ whenever possible. 2) Wilcox dovetail "straight" arm – I already own one of these. It does not provide enough rearward longitudinal travel of the device with the G24, and by my measurements would also not provide enough rearward travel with the INVG. Essentially an expensive paperweight at this point. 3) Wilcox dovetail "offset" arm – I tried one of those with the G24, but unfortunately received a "dud". A manufacturer defect in the form of an extra washer on the fine roll adjustment facilitated damage of the mount, but TNVC kept me whole on the deal commercially, for which I am most appreciative. This would seem like a suitable technical solution assuming that the interface between the Wilcox J-arm and the INVG is compatible? The downside is that the Wilcox arms are $200 a piece, and I have multiple systems, and most other folks with whom I associate also have bayonet, so interchangeability becomes a negative consideration as well as pure expense. There is also that stupid switch/wire for the manual shut-off that many folks neither like nor use. Since there would be no place to mount it on the INVG, I would simply lop it off with a pair of dykes. 4) Wilcox 7B/7D bayonet-to-dovetail adapter – The cost is $20-something, and quantity of one would accommodate my multiple existing systems, as well as those of others using USGI J-arms. It would retain all established muscle memory techniques. The downside is that it creates an additional interface and potential source of slop. Assuming that the fit between the Wilcox adapter and the INVG is reasonably tight [which is what I am requesting some verification of], the overall system slop would be no worse than that which I currently have and am happy with. The INVG will cost the same in any case, and the bayonet-to-dovetail adapter is dirt cheap in the world of NV….why not experiment to see if it works out for me? So am I crazy as a loon, or sharp as a fox…or maybe somewhere in between or maybe both? Thanks. |
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Isn't there a bayonet adapter you can get for the INVG so you can use your standard J-arm?
Reading what Vic and crew have said about the norotos and wilcox dovetails, they don't always fit. I have an older wilcox mount, and there's significant play with the norotos dovetail. Not unusable, but it defeats having a dovetail setup. If you're interested, I could trade you an AKA2 for your INVG mount with both bayonet and dovetail adapters. It's much more similar to the USGI setup than the INVG and is pretty adaptable. |
| Thanks for your input. I have been advised that the Wilcox/Norotos dovetail interface is a bit hit-or-miss, hence the inquiry. I am actually considering going to an INVG since it would be more similar to the USGI of which I am accustomed, and have a NIB G24 to figure out how best to liquidate. |
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Skip to 2:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WtcZmTuYU I can't find this part listed anywhere, maybe it comes with the swingarm? |
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Skip to 2:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WtcZmTuYU I can't find this part listed anywhere, maybe it comes with the swingarm? Bingo...that would be even better, so long as it isn't stupid expensive. |
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Skip to 2:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WtcZmTuYU I can't find this part listed anywhere, maybe it comes with the swingarm? Bingo...that would be even better, so long as it isn't stupid expensive. The AKA2 adapters are ~$50, so I can't imagine it's that expensive so long as it exists. |
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Would you like to alpha/beta-test one of these? I will be making some for Beta testers soon. Regards
David I am always interested in testing new stuff. |
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Skip to 2:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WtcZmTuYU I can't find this part listed anywhere, maybe it comes with the swingarm? Bingo...that would be even better, so long as it isn't stupid expensive. The AKA2 adapters are ~$50, so I can't imagine it's that expensive so long as it exists. I spoke with Norotos earlier today, and the INVG bayonet adapter in the vid that you linked was a prototype, and is not currently offered for sale....bummer. |
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Skip to 2:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WtcZmTuYU I can't find this part listed anywhere, maybe it comes with the swingarm? Bingo...that would be even better, so long as it isn't stupid expensive. The AKA2 adapters are ~$50, so I can't imagine it's that expensive so long as it exists. I spoke with Norotos earlier today, and the INVG bayonet adapter in the vid that you linked was a prototype, and is not currently offered for sale....bummer. I had a feeling it was. Sorry for getting your hopes up. |
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I don't know if this has been answered already, but my .02 cents (from experience) is the wilcox dovetails in norotos mounts are as loose as a hotdog down a hallway.
***edited*** Wanted to add although it was looser than a flys... D... in a horses... A... it did lock in place and bungee cords would have managed the slop. |
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I don't know if this has been answered already, but my .02 cents (from experience) is the wilcox dovetails in norotos mounts are as loose as a hotdog down a hallway. ***edited*** Wanted to add although it was looser than a flys... D... in a horses... A... it did lock in place and bungee cords would have managed the slop. Quite fortunately, I am not sharing your experience. The Wilcox bayonet-to-dovetail adapter which I received locks up into the Norotos INVG, "tighter than a witch's tit", since we are using metaphors. If I am simply lucky, that is just fine; I will take lucky over smart every time, since I am not often the latter. The bayonet fit between the multiple USGI J-arms and the Wilcox adapter is also tighter than with the USGI Rhinos, so I must be double stupid lucky. Regardless, it appears as though the $20-something roll of the dice has paid off in spades....for me at least. |
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I can't tell what I'm looking at It is a pair of Ops Core fast base jump helmets, with a pair of TCI Lib II headsets, and a pair of PVS-14s [both redneck dummy corded, dual battery left, single battery right]. The one on the left is using a USGI rhino and J-arm, and the one on the right is using a Norotos INVG with a Wilcox PVS-7B/7D bayonet-to-dovetail adapter and a USGI J-arm. The man difference is the reduced profile when retracted for the setup on the right, as well as the fact that the mount configuration is several Franklins more pricey. |
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I can't tell what I'm looking at It is a pair of Ops Core fast base jump helmets, with a pair of TCI Lib II headsets, and a pair of PVS-14s [both redneck dummy corded, dual battery left, single battery right]. The one on the left is using a USGI rhino and J-arm, and the one on the right is using a Norotos INVG with a Wilcox PVS-7B/7D bayonet-to-dovetail adapter and a USGI J-arm. The man difference is the reduced profile when retracted for the setup on the right, as well as the fact that the mount configuration is several Franklins more pricey. That's what I was wondering about. I always figured that adapter would hang a little too low, but it looks good. |
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That's what I was wondering about. I always figured that adapter would hang a little too low, but it looks good. Understandably so, since that component is the primary variable of this experiment, but at $20-something, it was well worth a try. Elevation is not an issue at all. With the INVG using the center position of the three sets of mounting holes available, the "fine" vertical adjustment still has plenty travel from my preferred positioning....maybe 3/8" down, and a bunch more than that up. Swapping holes would give another ~0.325" up or down respectively; it is hard to imagine not being able to make the vertical work for any reasonable application. As stated previously, the Wilcox-to-Norotos fit is rock solid, and the Wilcox-to-USGI fit seems better than the typical USGI-to-USGI. I haven't fielded this setup yet, but so far, I would say that it is a real winner for my somewhat unique set of criteria. It should be noted that the "either eye instantaneously" feature of the INVG is negated using this configuration. Swapping from one eye to the other necessitates adjustment of the USGI J-arm as with its typical utilization. This is a non-issue for me as I always run the -14 in front of my non-dom left eye. As a civi, if that eye were to become disabled for whatever reason, I would have much more important issues to address than I^2 positioning. Hope this helps; I am pretty stoked about the configuration, and am quite glad that the Wilcox-to Norotos interface ended up working out. Despite the fact that my wallet is emptier, I feel confident that I will greatly appreciate the modification next time dismounting/mounting a vehicle. |
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That's what I was wondering about. I always figured that adapter would hang a little too low, but it looks good. Understandably so, since that component is the primary variable of this experiment, but at $20-something, it was well worth a try. Elevation is not an issue at all. With the INVG using the center position of the three sets of mounting holes available, the "fine" vertical adjustment still has plenty travel from my preferred positioning....maybe 3/8" down, and a bunch more than that up. Swapping holes would give another ~0.325" up or down respectively; it is hard to imagine not being able to make the vertical work for any reasonable application. As stated previously, the Wilcox-to-Norotos fit is rock solid, and the Wilcox-to-USGI fit seems better than the typical USGI-to-USGI. I haven't fielded this setup yet, but so far, I would say that it is a real winner for my somewhat unique set of criteria. It should be noted that the "either eye instantaneously" feature of the INVG is negated using this configuration. Swapping from one eye to the other necessitates adjustment of the USGI J-arm as with its typical utilization. This is a non-issue for me as I always run the -14 in front of my non-dom left eye. As a civi, if that eye were to become disabled for whatever reason, I would have much more important issues to address than I^2 positioning. Hope this helps; I am pretty stoked about the configuration, and am quite glad that the Wilcox-to Norotos interface ended up working out. Despite the fact that my wallet is emptier, I feel confident that I will greatly appreciate the modification next time dismounting/mounting a vehicle. Completely understand. My Dual Dovetail was bought used and only has one dovetail. Is the knob on the J-Arm still useable? That should negate that problem to some extent. |
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For whatever reason, which could quite possibly include operator error, the Norotos dual dovetail mount just didn't work well for me. YMMV
Utilizing the configuration presented in this thread, the left-to-right or vice versa functionality of the USGI J-arm remains unchanged. The essential aspect of this experiment was to establish compatibility of the INVG [with its improved profile when retracted] along with existing USGI infrastructure via the very inexpensive Wilcox adapter. I am quite happy with how this has turned out, and will be purchasing more parts for my inventory to retain typical redundancy. |
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Received three more Wilcox dovetail-to-bayonet adapters today [thanks again Jaimie], and they all lock up rock solid with both the INVG and the G24.
The Wilcox adapter with USGI J-arm is actually less sloppy than the Wilcox dovetail arm by itself [with its slop for the left-to-right eye adjustment], and is a helluva lot less pricey. YMMV |
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