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Posted: 12/11/2011 2:03:34 PM EDT
| Generally speaking, which do you think is a bigger jump in performance: Going from a gen1 to a gen2, or going from a gen2 to a gen3? |
| No doubt. Gen 1 to 2 was the biggest leap. Not as huge as many suspect but still the biggest jump. Most think of Gen 1 as the cheap single stage ATN junk. Militarily speaking the jump from a PVS-2 Gen 1 cascade to a PVS-4 Gen 2 would not be as huge performance wise but still the biggest leap in night vision technology. Speaking Gen 3 only ? The biggest jump was Omni 3 to Omni 4. Omni 4 was when Gen 3 really started to shine. |
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Quoted: No doubt. Gen 1 to 2 was the biggest leap. Not as huge as many suspect but still the biggest jump. Most think of Gen 1 as the cheap single stage ATN junk. Militarily speaking the jump from a PVS-2 Gen 1 cascade to a PVS-4 Gen 2 would not be as huge performance wise but still the biggest leap in night vision technology. Speaking Gen 3 only ? The biggest jump was Omni 3 to Omni 4. Omni 4 was when Gen 3 really started to shine. This is very true - In fact, performance wise, the jump from high-end Gen1 cascade to it's Gen2 replacement ( The mx9644 ) was in fact a step backwards. The main benefit of the Gen2 tubes was size and weight. But then there is a similar jump from Gen2 to Gen2+1 or from Gen3 to Gen3+1 But as big leaps go, single-stage commercial Gen1 to almost any Gen2 is a performance change on the order of 100x if not 1000x I'd describe the (single stage)Gen1 to Gen2 leap as "Not working under starlight at all" to "providing some benefits under starlight" While the Gen2 to Gen3 leap is going from "Being able to see large objects under starlight" to "Being able to see small objects under starlight" - There's a little bit of difference in the brightness, but the Gen3 can pick out a lot more detail. Regards David |
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Pretty much what others have said. It also depends on how you define your performance metric. Most people go by some combination of "gain" and image quality.
I'll summarize my opinion here: Gen1 or gen1+ etc commercial (total crap, must use IR illumination for it to be marginally useful) Should really be called gen0 but for technical reasons aren't. Jump: Ancient mil-spec Gen0 units (Again, need a strong IR illuminator, but usually come with a good one, the plus side is they do actually work pretty well to a few hundred meters, with good image quality (little distortion, good resolution)) The downside is they are active only, and usually huge, as is the illuminator. Big Jump: Military triple cascade Gen1 units (These work reasonably well with no illumination, with some downsides if you are around bright point sources of light, also the image may be somewhat distorted though this varies by the specific model and when/where it was built (russian 1pn34's tend to be bad but usable, Zeiss Orions have a very little distortion) The other downside is they are huge/heavy. Medium Jump: Early Gen2 units. (Or 2+1 units) Not much performance improvement in terms of overall gain over Gen1 TC, but deal with bright lights quite well and have a nice flat image. These usually had slightly worse resolution and gain than the Gen1 triple cascade units though. Small Jump: Gen2+/Early gen3 units: Mainly improved sensitivity/gain and resolution compared to the earlier gen2 stuff. Small jump Current gen3 (i.e. thin film/no film) Again better gain under really low light conditions and improved reslolution. Autogating gets you better "high light performance" All of this is of course subject to how much ambient light you are working with. With 1/4-1/8 moon or more Gen1TC->the best current gen3 will get you usable gain, with the main differences being better resolution/image quality for the more modern stuff. |
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Quoted: (Or 2+1 units) Hi Harlikwin, 2+1 means something completely different from "Gen2 Inverter" which is what you're thinking about. The "+1" series means a Gen2 or a Gen3 with a Gen1 tube in a cascade. These tubes are a true cascade tube - as in they have multiple functional stages - but they are short and light. S/N in a +1 type tube can approach 60:1 and gain levels can approach 300,000x Regards David
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Quoted:
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(Or 2+1 units) Hi Harlikwin, 2+1 means something completely different from "Gen2 Inverter" which is what you're thinking about. The "+1" series means a Gen2 or a Gen3 with a Gen1 tube in a cascade. These tubes are a true cascade tube - as in they have multiple functional stages - but they are short and light. S/N in a +1 type tube can approach 60:1 and gain levels can approach 300,000x Regards David I thought the mx9644 was 2+1 tube? I know the hybrid 3+1 tubes for the stinger sights are reputedly insane on gain but then again too much gain can be a bad thing sometimes if the dynamic range is low... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: (Or 2+1 units) Hi Harlikwin, 2+1 means something completely different from "Gen2 Inverter" which is what you're thinking about. The "+1" series means a Gen2 or a Gen3 with a Gen1 tube in a cascade. These tubes are a true cascade tube - as in they have multiple functional stages - but they are short and light. S/N in a +1 type tube can approach 60:1 and gain levels can approach 300,000x Regards David I thought the mx9644 was 2+1 tube? I know the hybrid 3+1 tubes for the stinger sights are reputedly insane on gain but then again too much gain can be a bad thing sometimes if the dynamic range is low... Sort of - But for all the wrong reasons. MX9644 applies to; * Gen 2 Inverter ( Most common ) * Gen 2 Super Inverter ( Gen 2+1 - Very very rare ) * MX11620 ( Early tubes were known as MX9644 ) * Gen 3+1 I have technical documents showing a Gen3+1 MX9644, so the specification is more physical than technological in this case. But most Gen2's are just normal inverter tubes. The thing about +1's is that they have phenomenal S/N and contrast to go with the high gain. Dynamic range is a problem with MCPs mainly but +1's suffer less from it than other tubes. Actually, come to think of it, Gen2 inverters do have an excellent dynamic range due to the anode cone ( and the subsequent elimination of halo effect ) Gen1's have the best dynamic range. Regards David
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