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Posted: 10/22/2007 7:51:28 PM EDT
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I "figger" with the recent interest in generation 2 NVDs that we should at leat have a seperate discusion about the different types of gen 2 tubes out there. I am by no means any kind of an expert when it comes to gen 2 equipment. I have been spoiled by Mil Spec gen 3 stuff. I have never really used or messed with gen 2. like a lot of people I was highly intriqued by the Eurpoean DEP tubes that fit into 18mm gen 3 housings. Unfortunatly the cost of these shot up right away to in some cases more than gen 3 stuff so I never bought any. So, as I understand it there are basically three types of gen 2 tubes. 1. The MX 9916 tubes that were originally made for the PVS 5 platform. 2. The MX 10130 (gen 2) tubes for the PVS 7 platform. 3. The DEP tubes that fit into 18mm 10160 housings (MUM, 6015, Raptors, ANVIS and the like.). The first two are mil spec where as the DEP are not. Now the DEP tubes are of a much higher quality. OK so are there any others I have missed? Those with experince with each could talk about each? IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA |
I have seen them as low as $800.00 and as high as $1500 depending. These are gen 2 prices. Gen 3... Gen 3 PVS 4 tubes can be stupid expensive. however a gen 3 PVS 4 looks better than just about anything out there becuse of the larger 25 mm tube. IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA |
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As cheap as i have ever seen one is $2000.00 and that was from a questionable source. usually $5000.00 or there abouts. The military crushed thousands of them when they phased the PVS 4 out. More than a couple of tears rolled down my cheeks. IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA |
That makes so much sense to just crush them when they could turn around and offer them for sale to the VERY PEOPLE WHO F&^*ING purchased them in the first place. That is the kind of crap that drives me nuts... kudos to decision makers!! 
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What you have described here is the format of the tube, which has no connection to its generation, whatsoever. 1. These are so called fat-ANVIS type 2. These are so called straight PVS-7 type 3. thse are small ANVIS or thin ANVIS type 4. the large tubes for PVS-4 are sometimes called 25mm inverter type. There ae other formats of the tubes, as well, for instance straight tubes of 43mm diameter, but thinner. These are used in Newcon goggles or some ATN weapon sights (ATN Aries Trident series). Basically, tubes of Gen2 are as follows: 1. US tubes - ca 15 years old or more, there are still stocks of unused or little used tubes. Types are MX-9916 in fat ANVIS, MX-18281 and MX-18282 for PVS-7A or B series, MX-9644 for PVS-4, 2. Russian tubes - old types like EPM29G-A 25mm, EPM44G 18mm straight - newer types like EKRAN EPM214G, KATOD EPM105G and EPM108G series produced in all 18mm formats. 3. European types two companies, Dutch DEP and French Photonis have kept separate production programmes for years, each having several categories. Photonis: Gen2+, SuperGen, HP SuperGen, HyperGen, eXtended HyperGen XH72 DEP: Gen2+, SHD3, XD-4, XR5 autogated Now that the companies merged together, the line has been simplified: Gen2+, SuperGen, XD-4, XR5 autogated All XD-4 and XR5 are MilSpec, even many SuperGens. Tubes that fail MilSpec teats are being degraded to Gen2+ category, so it is nothing unusual to find a DEP-Photonis Gen2+ tube that has resolution of 57-64 lp/mm, sensitivity of 600-650 micA/lm and SNR over 20. That is something that should have been an XD-4 but had some pepper or minor faults so it didn't pass.. China and India have license for DEP tubes. India produces just some older types at Bharat Electronics, but China has almost full line designated as CNT-2,3,4. They also have CNT-6 line which is restricted to open sale, I assume these are XR5s? Hope it sheds some light into Gen2 world. |
Newcon optic sells new 25mm format tubes in gen2+/3 |
| The DEP tubes have gone up a lot in price recently; due to the drop in the dollar. IMO, they aren't worth it any more as they now cost as much as gen 3. Gen 2 has gone up 15-20% too. Standard gen 2 D 300's are around $1,200 now. I have (another)one on back order locked in at the 1K price. They aren't even going to be avalable until mid November. |
| The 25mm Gen 3 tubes must be vary rare. I have only seen them a few times and the prices were pretty high. Litton must not have made many of them. Are the MX916 and the 10130 gen 2 for the PVS-7 about the same specs performance wise ? I understand only a few very early PVS-7B'S had the Gen 2 tube. |
Don't they make a goggle using a 25mm tube with a 60 degree FOV? |
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the tube in a D 300 a US made PVS 5 tube, the MX 9916? Why would those go up in price other than the new old stock is running low? IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA |
Litton made the MX-11620 tubes mainly for AN/PVS-20 scopes. Youre right, they are not evry common. The nbest performance of this tube is soe 1500 micA/lm and 32-45 lp/mm, hardly an OMNI IV. The Gen2 tubes for PVS-7 are not MX-10130, but MX-18281 and MX-18282. I had one and it was better than an MX-9916. |
Yes, but it is nothing like the 25mm for PVS-4. It is a tube of 18mm size (43mm outside diameter), but with larger 25mm window, much smaller than an MX-9644. |
Because the housings are not American, but imported from a Belrussian company named Dipol. Unlike with Gen3 devices, with Gen2 units empty hull and optics are more expensive than the tube itself. |
How many of the housings out there are Russian made? I know the D 740 and D 760 are. I was told by one of the sales reps at Optics HQ that the GT 14 is also Russian made. IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA |
D740 and D760 are made by Russian Dedal. It is the best company out there... Not sure about GT-14, but besides that, everything from Dedal, Dipol, Alpha-Optics, Newcon and ATN is Russian-made. |
I would disagree here. XD-4 and XR5 tubes are tubes meeting the manufacturer requirements for XD-4 and XR5, and not "MilSpec". XD-4 are available with standard or with the autogated "Iris" power supply. There is at least one Gen. II tubes manufacturer that should be added to the list. It's the Japanese Hamamatsu company. Ironrat |
| Yes and no. Unlike with ITT and NG, DEP-Photonis are not bonded with requirements of domestic armed forces. All tubes designated as XD-4 or XR5 sooner or later would find their way to amred forces, as not all forces have the same requirements for MilSpec. I have read the share of civilian-operated DEP tubes compared to military tubes is pretty small, good tubes are short, armies take even SHD-3, let alone XD-4s. |
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Photonis-DEP tubes are rated according to their parameters. If a tube is meeting XR-5 specification, it is then labelled XR-5, idem for XD-4 and the others. The type of the tube gives information about its minimal parameters. Contrary to the claims of some dealers, there is no such thing as milspec or commercial grade or selection A, B, C XR-5 tube (XD-4, etc...). It an XR-5 or it is not. Ironrat |
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