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Link Posted: 5/12/2022 8:56:55 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
Can't an 07/02 build, posses and use ANY MG they want regardless of any Law Letter?
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Yes, if I can make a minigun or the geco 50 cal version, I can posses it.
An 07/02 can make ANYTHING except ap ammo and dds.
Link Posted: 5/12/2022 9:06:04 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
This brings up an important question, what happens to the Uzi that was attempted to be transferred? Is it contraband now? The ATF has essentially declared it to be untransferable to any police department or SOT, so what legal purpose does the firearm serve now?
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It can certainly be transferred to the Dept. They can buy it from whomever the OP was going to buy it from.
Link Posted: 5/12/2022 9:40:48 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


Oh this is just my game.
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Then we need to talk. ATF denied a tax paid transfer to the shop for a DD, and they stated it was an “internal” policy.

@nolocontendere
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 11:48:22 AM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


Then we need to talk. ATF denied a tax paid transfer to the shop for a DD, and they stated it was an “internal” policy.

@nolocontendere
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This internal policy on inter-State DD transfer restrictions to non DD Dealers/MFG's has been going on for some time.  Many year backs the NFA branch would on occasion and as an exception allow an 01/03 or an 07/02 to do a tax paid inbound transfer on a large bore DD for commercial activity but would limit it to a max of one transfer a year and/or some small maximum number of DD transfers for the life of the license. My understanding now is that the will not approve an 01/03 or and 02/07 to do a tax paid large bore DD transfer anymore unless there are no DD dealers or Mfg.'s  in State and I have no idea if there are currently any States without at least one 09 or 10 licensee.

I know my FFL had a very difficult time getting a DD transferred to himself a couple years back that he purchased for himself personally.   He had to write a letter to the NFA branch that the DD transfer was for his own personal use and that he had no plans to sell or transfer it to customer and the NFA branch eventually relented.     I found this out when I asked if he would do a DD transfer for me using his "one per year exemption" and he told me they would never let him do another one, especially for the same type of DD.

I am in central Texas and I had a really challenging time finding a DD dealer/mfg within a couple hour drive who would do a DD transfer for me.  I don't know what happens if you live somewhere like North Dakota and there are probably only a handful at best of  DD dealer/mfg in State and they all refuse to perform a transfer for an end customer.

If you are a sole prop FFL and the denied DD transfer is for your own personal use and you have no plans to sell it or transfer it away to somebody else, you may want to try contacting the NFA branch and/or writing a letter outlining that this tax paid DD transfer is not for commercial licensed activity and see if they will allow the inter-State transfer to go through.  

Somebody can correct me if there is a law or reg that absolutely precludes an 01 or 02 from receiving a large bore DD inter-State for personal use, similar to when an FFL purchases a title-1 firearm for personal use. They don't have to send the personal use title-1 firearm to another in-State dealer and then fill out a 4473 to take it home just because its not for commercial activity on their license.    If the transfer is for commercial activity than the laws/regs are on the BATFE's side that you need an  09 or 10 FFL to "deal" in DDs even if its just one gun.

It sucks given the cost of a DD FFL 09 or10 is $3000,  but technically that's the license you need if you are going to do any "commercial" dealer activity in DDs and todays current BATFE/NFA branch doesn't seem to be in a very flexible or forgiving mood now-a-days.
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 9:09:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Are you able to change your license status for one year?  As in go from a SOT 02 to a SOT 10 for one year and then go back to a 02?  I understand the significant more cost but just a thought?
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 9:27:16 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Are you able to change your license status for one year?  As in go from a SOT 02 to a SOT 10 for one year and then go back to a 02?  I understand the significant more cost but just a thought?
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SOT, I think so. FFL, no.  You have to apply for a new FFL.
Link Posted: 5/14/2022 9:58:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This internal policy on inter-State DD transfer restrictions to non DD Dealers/MFG's has been going on for some time.  Many year backs the NFA branch would on occasion and as an exception allow an 01/03 or an 07/02 to do a tax paid inbound transfer on a large bore DD for commercial activity but would limit it to a max of one transfer a year and/or some small maximum number of DD transfers for the life of the license. My understanding now is that the will not approve an 01/03 or and 02/07 to do a tax paid large bore DD transfer anymore unless there are no DD dealers or Mfg.'s  in State and I have no idea if there are currently any States without at least one 09 or 10 licensee.

I know my FFL had a very difficult time getting a DD transferred to himself a couple years back that he purchased for himself personally.   He had to write a letter to the NFA branch that the DD transfer was for his own personal use and that he had no plans to sell or transfer it to customer and the NFA branch eventually relented.     I found this out when I asked if he would do a DD transfer for me using his "one per year exemption" and he told me they would never let him do another one, especially for the same type of DD.

I am in central Texas and I had a really challenging time finding a DD dealer/mfg within a couple hour drive who would do a DD transfer for me.  I don't know what happens if you live somewhere like North Dakota and there are probably only a handful at best of  DD dealer/mfg in State and they all refuse to perform a transfer for an end customer.

If you are a sole prop FFL and the denied DD transfer is for your own personal use and you have no plans to sell it or transfer it away to somebody else, you may want to try contacting the NFA branch and/or writing a letter outlining that this tax paid DD transfer is not for commercial licensed activity and see if they will allow the inter-State transfer to go through.  

Somebody can correct me if there is a law or reg that absolutely precludes an 01 or 02 from receiving a large bore DD inter-State for personal use, similar to when an FFL purchases a title-1 firearm for personal use. They don't have to send the personal use title-1 firearm to another in-State dealer and then fill out a 4473 to take it home just because its not for commercial activity on their license.    If the transfer is for commercial activity than the laws/regs are on the BATFE's side that you need an  09 or 10 FFL to "deal" in DDs even if its just one gun.

It sucks given the cost of a DD FFL 09 or10 is $3000,  but technically that's the license you need if you are going to do any "commercial" dealer activity in DDs and todays current BATFE/NFA branch doesn't seem to be in a very flexible or forgiving mood now-a-days.
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Which doesn’t compute. Any 01 FFL can get nfa items. They just have to pay the $200. That’s why the have the sot, but a ffl can get items. Why don’t DD’s work the same?
Link Posted: 5/15/2022 12:09:38 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


Which doesn’t compute. Any 01 FFL can get nfa items. They just have to pay the $200. That’s why the have the sot, but a ffl can get items. Why don’t DD’s work the same?
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An FFL 01 allows you to commercially deal in firearms including NFA firearms....other than destructive devices.  

The SOT payment on an 01 license removes the $200 per item transfer tax burden.     To the best of my knowledge its technically not illegal to have commercial activity in NFA firearms (MG, SBR, SBS, Silencers, & AOW) as an 01 without a SOT.   While its probably not practical to have inbound NFA transfers into your inventory at $200 each, I have come across 01 dealers over the years who have existing inventory of NFA firearms from when they paid their SOT, kept the FFL but let the SOT lapse and continue to deal in NFA firearms by selling off the existing NFA inventory in-State via a tax paid Form 4.

However, to commercially deal in destructive devices you need a different FFL license class (09 or 10).  So its really not a SOT vs. non-SOT limitation, its a FFL license class limitation to do commercial activity in DDs.  So if the BATFE/NFA branch believes the inbound DD transfer to you is for commercial activity it is technically their job to make sure you have the correct license class for that commercial firearm activity.

Remove the inter-State part of the equation and it would still be illegal for you with an 01 license to commercially deal in DDs via tax paid transfers.  Say you as an 01 bought a dozen M203s from a in-State manufacturer and paid the $200 tax for each one with the plan to them up for sale to in-State residents.  I assume the BATFE would probably deny those in-bound transfer requests as well.  Its sort of no different if they believed me as a non-licensee was buying a selling NFA firearms without an FFL by just paying the tax on each one as I don't have the correct FFL license type.  (which isn't too far fetched if say I was only dealing in transferable MGs without a license as the $200 tax cost is a rounding error)

Again to the best of my knowledge (and somebody can correct me if I am wrong on this account) its not against the GCA of 68 for a large bore DD to transfer to you inter-State (SOT or non-SOT) as its still "a firearm" and the 01 license clears the GCA inter-State transfer legal hurdle,  but without the right DD FFL license type (09 or 10) its not legal for you to commercially deal in Destructive Devices.

In this case your 01 license sort of works like an 03 license (C&R) to allow the inter-State transfer to legally proceed.  A regular Joe can't purchase C&R firearms inter-State and/or deal in C&R firearms.   An FFL 03/C&R license holder can purchase C&R eligible firearms across State lines but an 03 license doesn't allow you to have commercial activity in C&R firearms.  In this case a 03/C&R can purchase a Mosin and have it inter-State shipped to them for collecting purpose.  However an 03/C&R license holder can't buy Mosin's, with the plan to resell or transfer them commercially with an 03/C&R license.

This is the argument my 01 dealer made when he convinced the NFA branch to approve his DD transfer as a personal use firearm and had to write them a letter affirming the transfer was for non-commercial purposes.  This may be more complicated if your license isn't a sole prop as the burden to convince the NFA branch that your FFL corp is personally collecting a DD may be a bit more difficult.  For my dealer his license and himself personally are one in the same entity and humans routinely both deal and collect firearms at the same time.

Th BATFE/NFA used to allow 01s one DD a year and defined dealing/commercial activity in DDs  as "2 or more" in a year and some small maximum overall number.   Now-a-days it appears their current definition for commercial activity in DDs requiring the correct FFL license type is "1 or more".
Link Posted: 6/29/2022 2:18:17 PM EDT
[#9]
@TheUziButton

Any update?
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