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Posted: 1/14/2022 1:45:13 PM EDT
[#1]
From what I understand, you CANNOT add or change any markings on an SBR once it is approved. You have to have your weapon in its final form before you SBR it.
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Posted: 1/14/2022 1:56:36 PM EDT
[#2]
My information may be out of date, but a couple of years ago I had a few Form 1s approved to build SBRs and didn’t have anything engraved, but there also was no requirement for a picture of any kind. Is the picture something new?
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Posted: 1/14/2022 2:13:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I understand, you CANNOT add or change any markings on an SBR once it is approved. You have to have your weapon in its final form before you SBR it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 2:50:31 PM EDT
[#4]
A picture of the markings?
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Posted: 1/14/2022 3:08:23 PM EDT
[#5]
That's crazy talk
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Posted: 1/14/2022 3:08:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A picture of the markings? Two years ago or so. Lower was marked like a 601 or had a Colt mag well welded to a 80% . Agent wanted a picture to understand what was done as the marking are Colt but Colt wasn’t the manufacturer. IIRC the trust was marked in the trigger area. ATF was fine with it after an explanation ie, the pictures. |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 3:20:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two years ago or so. Lower was marked like a 601 or had a Colt mag well welded to a 80% . Agent wanted a picture to understand what was done as the marking are Colt but Colt wasn’t the manufacturer. IIRC the trust was marked in the trigger area. ATF was fine with it after an explanation ie, the pictures. OP has stated that the eforms are now requiring pictures of markings. That’s the first I’ve heard of such a claim, and I’ve used eforms several times now. |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 3:50:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP has stated that the eforms are now requiring pictures of markings. That’s the first I’ve heard of such a claim, and I’ve used eforms several times now. Me too. I’m about to use them again for a couple of form 1s. A friend that works for an SOT FFL just submitted a form 1 last month and no pictures. That sounds ATF style creepy! |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 3:56:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP has stated that the eforms are now requiring pictures of markings. That’s the first I’ve heard of such a claim, and I’ve used eforms several times now. There's a spot to upload a picture and it specifically says an area of the original markings. But it doesn't say specifically it's required. :shrug: |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 4:15:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Just be sure they're ATF agents, it doesn't mean they know guns - let alone 80%/welds or the retro hobby.
Wasn't there an issue with having a faux auto sear pin "engraving" ... not even being a drilled hole? |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 4:19:19 PM EDT
[#11]
pictures?
I never sent the ATF any photos of anything for my forms... And this being the case, how would they know if you changed any markings? Weird thread is weird. |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 4:23:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: pictures? I never sent the ATF any photos of anything for my forms... And this being the case, how would they know if you changed any markings? Weird thread is weird. It really depends on the person working on your form. I had to submit pictures of some mg on form 4s. You just never know. |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 4:30:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: pictures? I never sent the ATF any photos of anything for my forms... And this being the case, how would they know if you changed any markings? Weird thread is weird. Pictures are not new. I had to get the seller to take a picture of my full auto Thompson next to a ruler because there was some weird length listed on the very old Form 4. My barrel length is still not listed correctly, but the overall length is good.. Like was said... we're dealing with the ATF here... |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 4:37:32 PM EDT
[#14]
I used to never do pictures, and then had a request for photos of markings a couple years back. Now I typically add pictures of factory markings as a matter of course.
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Posted: 1/14/2022 5:14:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I understand, you CANNOT add or change any markings on an SBR once it is approved. You have to have your weapon in its final form before you SBR it. You can add whatever you want, but you can't remove or alter markings that are germane to it's status. |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 5:32:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It really depends on the person working on your form. I had to submit pictures of some mg on form 4s. You just never know. There was a case where some unscrupulous individuals were "washing" machineguns via multiple F4 transfers some years back; they'd alter the markings a little bit every time and end up with a "new" machinegun. |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 6:34:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't there an issue with having a faux auto sear pin "engraving" ... not even being a drilled hole? Yes. A few years back there were a couple lowers seized due to the faux sear pin being engraved the ATF claimed it was “iNtEnT” |
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Posted: 1/14/2022 7:10:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Funny this came up because I was just thinking about doing the faux auta sear pin to my 602 still undecided if it's worth it or not.
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Posted: 1/14/2022 7:33:28 PM EDT
[#19]
You might be asked to upload pics on a finished 80% as there's no manufacturer listed in their system. If you select a pre-loaded manufacturer, usually no pics are required on an F1.
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Posted: 1/19/2022 8:44:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I understand, you CANNOT add or change any markings on an SBR once it is approved. You have to have your weapon in its final form before you SBR it. For a Title I firearm, you can remove, modify, remark everything except the serial number. You can turn a Colt into an FN if you like, just don’t touch the original serial number. Under Tile II (NFA), it’s far stricter. You cannot alter or obliterate almost any markings. Serial number, but also manufacturer, model, importer markings, etc. Adding markings of any kind is totally legal assuming you are not simultaneously altering/obliterating/obfuscating existing markings by doing so. If ATF would accept a blank receiver with the minimum info engraved (your name, location, serial number, caliber), then you still could legally add a repro/retro Colt logo on the magwell. However you’d be creating a lot of confusion downstream and since the assumption would be Colt is the original manufacturer, though it would not reflect this on your Form 1. Always better to have the gun marked as intended before you Form 1 it. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 11:13:12 PM EDT
[#21]
They want to see the SN, caliber and MFR marks (trust marks, your marks or marks in the trigger well)
They don’t care about all the other stuff. They want it make sure the thing has the mfr marks on it and the SN and caliber. I think there are a TON of incorrectly registered SBRs. Take the Saiga for example or some of the AKs that have a bunch of weird bs engraved on the side. Does that make sense? You can add whatever just can’t remove anything after it’s NFA. I think they are simply trying to reduce errors, not sniff out clone guns. Yes you are making things difficult for whoever inherits the gun, just give them my name as a SOT to help iron them out your estate. Lol. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 11:42:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: I'm about to SBR a couple lowers for projects and I'd like to have repro Colt markings on my 607 clone. I remember there were some guys that had issues a few years back. I see the eForm 1 says to take a picture of the markings. I wasn't planning on having my 80% receiver engraved until after I had the approved Form 1. So just submit a picture of the blank area? Will they approve a Model GX-5857? Stupid ATF... I never heard that… |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 11:57:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They want to see the SN, caliber and MFR marks (trust marks, your marks or marks in the trigger well) Nothing to see since 80% receivers do not have that. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:20:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP has stated that the eforms are now requiring pictures of markings. That’s the first I’ve heard of such a claim, and I’ve used eforms several times now. I don't think photos are always required, but photos are sometimes helpful. I once eform'ed an odd named billet lower a few years ago that ATF had never heard of. They emailed me the next day, and asked if I could send pictures of the markings, just to see what it looked like. Got my stamp a few weeks later. Jay |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 4:42:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing to see since 80% receivers do not have that. If you make a 100% receiver from a 80% you are the manufacturer. You engrave your info on the lower, and photograph that to send in with the form 1. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 4:46:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Technically you're the maker but yes, do this...
Quote HistoryQuoted: You engrave your info on the lower, and photograph that to send in with the form 1. ATF does not typically require a photo, but it never hurts to include one. If they cannot determine what you're trying to register, they will ask for a photo (as noted above). |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 4:53:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you make a 100% receiver from a 80% you are the manufacturer. You engrave your info on the lower, and photograph that to send in with the form 1. The OP said "I wasn't planning on having my 80% receiver engraved until after I had the approved Form 1." Thus there is nothing marked when he submits the F1. |
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Posted: 1/22/2022 1:26:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Recently had a form 1 approved for an SBR, no photo requirements.. not even feet pics
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Posted: 1/22/2022 11:51:08 PM EDT
[#29]
I've always wondered.... if you add markings and the SAME serial number to another location on the receiver, then obliterate the original...... is that bad?
I.e. the serial's on the left side of the magwell and you stamp it on the right, then fill in the original.... |
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