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Posted: 7/23/2014 12:55:11 PM EDT
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On Tuesday, Brandon [Allen Arms Tactical] had the opportunity to attend the ATF eForms Roundtable discussion. Several large industry members were represented there, as well as about 14 different ATF Deputy Chiefs, Assistant Chiefs, and so on. Lee Alston-Williams, Gary Schaible, and Kimberly Ramsburg of the NFA Branch were there as well.
The meeting consisted of an introduction by Deputy Assistant Director Marvin Richardson and discussion between various ATF officials and the industry members. DAD Richardson explained that the ATF understood the frustrations of the industry with eForms specifically, and wait times in general. He stressed that he wanted his people to be professional and have a good ‘customer service’ relationship with the industry, and they understood in order to make eForms 2.0 a success, they would have to solicit advice from industry members. The entire ATF staff seemed very nice and empathetic to our problems, and all took a lot of notes on what was discussed during the meeting. Several of the industry members present were very ‘high speed’ IT guys, and gave the ATF IT & Security people several different ideas on how to make eForms 2.0 better, faster approval times, instant verifications using security tokens and licensing information that the NFA Branch already has on hand that is automatically selected in eForms, as you all know. The meat and potatoes of the actual Forms and discussion: Form 1’s: Will be brought up and allowed for individuals to utilize. Form 2’s: Came back online as of Monday. One dealer has already reported a 12hr turn around between submission and approval, which is a very positive step. Form 3’s: The industry was very insistent on Form 3’s being the priority, being ‘instant’ if possible, or at the least, a predictable timeline so everyone can better manage their cash flow. Form 3’s obviously are the highest volume Form the NFA Branch sees cross their desk. To our understanding, they will not be bringing Form 3’s and 4’s back to the old eForms site. They are completely rebuilding those modules, and will launch them with the new eForm site, which they are hoping to have running in 3-6 months. [I'd be surprised if it is under 6 months. -- Chris] Form 4’s: These will be coming up with the new site. The ATF understands these are the priority for dealers, and for them as well, to reduce the amount of manpower needed to handle physical paper documents. FROM THE ATF/NFA BRANCH’S SIDE: The ATF and NFA Branch (Lee & Gary) tried to shed some light on what they deal with, and their frustrations. DAD Richardson told us he understands our frustrations with ATF always being behind. With any government bureaucracy, it takes time to respond to needs. If any of us need an updated IT system, or more manpower, we go out and pay for it, hire someone, and are done with it. The ATF isn’t that fast, and explained how they are always chasing the industry. They are trying their best. Stats below: Started FY ’14 with 9 examiners. They are currently up to 16, looking to have 26 by end of year. Reduced 8 week data entry backlog down to 1.5 weeks. At a peak of 86,816 pending forms, they are down to 50,000 or so unprocessed. Form 4 wait time has decreased by approximately 35 days, SOT to SOT wait time is down 11 days. They are training IOI’s to help handle Form processing. This to help reduce backlog, and give IOI’s a better understand of the paperwork, was our takeaway. They are wanting <6 month waits on tax-paid transfers, and the industry believes they can help the NFA branch create software that will ‘automatically’ approve Form 3’s. ATF is going to look at if that can be done, or is statutorily regulated. |
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Quoted:
Form 3’s: The industry was very insistent on Form 3’s being the priority, being ‘instant’ if possible, or at the least, a predictable timeline so everyone can better manage their cash flow. Form 3’s obviously are the highest volume Form the NFA Branch sees cross their desk. To our understanding, they will not be bringing Form 3’s and 4’s back to the old eForms site. They are completely rebuilding those modules, and will launch them with the new eForm site, which they are hoping to have running in 3-6 months. Form 4’s: These will be coming up with the new site. The ATF understands these are the priority for dealers, and for them as well, to reduce the amount of manpower needed to handle physical paper documents. So...to all you jokers that have been holding on to Form 4s after F1s were added to the system, hoping F4s were right behind...I'm glad I'm 2+ months ahead of you in line with four paper F4s! 
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I think all transfers that involve a TRUST, should be automatic approval (if the trust is valid). Besides making sure the Trust is legit, theres really no other information that needs to be looked over that a computer can't instantly verify. Or if you have multiple items pending they should all be approved at once like they tried with some batch processing. That makes sense, almost too much. 
I hope we see a massive shift in paper times. |
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Or if you have multiple items pending they should all be approved at once like they tried with some batch processing. That makes sense, almost too much.
I hope we see a massive shift in paper times. Quoted:
Quoted:
I think all transfers that involve a TRUST, should be automatic approval (if the trust is valid). Besides making sure the Trust is legit, theres really no other information that needs to be looked over that a computer can't instantly verify. Or if you have multiple items pending they should all be approved at once like they tried with some batch processing. That makes sense, almost too much.
I hope we see a massive shift in paper times. We should see a shift especially with the end of the last eforms 4s in sight plus the addition of more examiners. |
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Quoted: I think all transfers that involve a TRUST, should be automatic approval (if the trust is valid). Besides making sure the Trust is legit, theres really no other information that needs to be looked over that a computer can't instantly verify.  |
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Are we sure these were government officials talking? It sounds like they're trying to work out a decent plan. Ha, no kidding. Glad to hear the update...sad about the Form 4's though, I guess I'll just paper file. I agree with the others though, if you're trust/LLC is already on file and you have something approved already, why can't they approve something else within a weeks time? I just received my F1 stamp, now I'm filing my F4, what's going to change in two weeks where I wouldn't be approved... Dumb. |
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Any discussion of adding an e-form version of the 5320.20? That's a no brainer, and should be available for individuals and entities. No prints/sigs/photos required. And it should be as automated as possible...as long as the destination is legal and the SN is in the system, it should be a 24-hour turnaround. 
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So...to all you jokers that have been holding on to Form 4s after F1s were added to the system, hoping F4s were right behind...I'm glad I'm 2+ months ahead of you in line with four paper F4s!
Quoted:
Quoted:
Form 3’s: The industry was very insistent on Form 3’s being the priority, being ‘instant’ if possible, or at the least, a predictable timeline so everyone can better manage their cash flow. Form 3’s obviously are the highest volume Form the NFA Branch sees cross their desk. To our understanding, they will not be bringing Form 3’s and 4’s back to the old eForms site. They are completely rebuilding those modules, and will launch them with the new eForm site, which they are hoping to have running in 3-6 months. Form 4’s: These will be coming up with the new site. The ATF understands these are the priority for dealers, and for them as well, to reduce the amount of manpower needed to handle physical paper documents. So...to all you jokers that have been holding on to Form 4s after F1s were added to the system, hoping F4s were right behind...I'm glad I'm 2+ months ahead of you in line with four paper F4s!
I just had 3 paper filed form 4's check cashed yesterday. I have a form 1 I e-filed a couple of weeks ago...it would be nice if they just group approved them
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What they could implement is a system. Where your trust is on file, once you've been approved, then it will be automatic on future applications. An examiner will go over your application making sure it's correctly done, but you'ed be more ahead then say anyone else that's never submitted one before. Quoted:
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I think all transfers that involve a TRUST, should be automatic approval (if the trust is valid). Besides making sure the Trust is legit, theres really no other information that needs to be looked over that a computer can't instantly verify. Exactly! Have an offline server that all registered users files are stored and where the system can pull to match and verify files. It don't have to be online server since that would be risky to be breached. |
| NFA has the ability to program the system to match and group all forms that have matching trust submitted. They just want to do it the hard way. Make it look like they care but really they just care about the money. Cashing a check is just as easy as verifying a trust. They have peoples trust on file, I doubt they have their one lawyer read over each trust that's submitted each day. |
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Quoted: Exactly! Have an offline server that all registered users files are stored and where the system can pull to match and verify files. It don't have to be online server since that would be risky to be breached. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think all transfers that involve a TRUST, should be automatic approval (if the trust is valid). Besides making sure the Trust is legit, theres really no other information that needs to be looked over that a computer can't instantly verify. Exactly! Have an offline server that all registered users files are stored and where the system can pull to match and verify files. It don't have to be online server since that would be risky to be breached. |
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Actually, they wouldn't even need that. All that would be needed is a field for noting that a valid trust is on file matching the applicant's name... Quoted:
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Quoted:
I think all transfers that involve a TRUST, should be automatic approval (if the trust is valid). Besides making sure the Trust is legit, theres really no other information that needs to be looked over that a computer can't instantly verify. Exactly! Have an offline server that all registered users files are stored and where the system can pull to match and verify files. It don't have to be online server since that would be risky to be breached. You know government likes to keep people's information on file! ;) |
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Quoted: I think all transfers that involve a TRUST, should be automatic approval (if the trust is valid). Besides making sure the Trust is legit, theres really no other information that needs to be looked over that a computer can't instantly verify. Agreed. Send up your trust, eForms generates an MD5 hash of the file. On your next form 1/4, you upload your trust. If it matches the existing MD5, it should get auto approved. If not, it gets reviewed and the existing trust document gets replaced. |
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Agreed. Send up your trust, eForms generates an MD5 hash of the file. On your next form 1/4, you upload your trust. If it matches the existing MD5, it should get auto approved. If not, it gets reviewed and the existing trust document gets replaced. Quoted:
Quoted:
I think all transfers that involve a TRUST, should be automatic approval (if the trust is valid). Besides making sure the Trust is legit, theres really no other information that needs to be looked over that a computer can't instantly verify. Agreed. Send up your trust, eForms generates an MD5 hash of the file. On your next form 1/4, you upload your trust. If it matches the existing MD5, it should get auto approved. If not, it gets reviewed and the existing trust document gets replaced. Exactly. It's not rocket science. |
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