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5/31/2013 4:14:22 PM EDT
I know this is a stupid question especially since I am going to get my 5th stamp(the first 4 I did at the same time) with this trust.

On the assignment page do I need to show all existing items under the trust already?I can't remember if I do or don't. Can someone please chime in.

Thanks
5/31/2013 5:56:27 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm waiting on stamp number 9 and have never updated my schedule A. I haven't seen a legal ruling stating that you have to list your items on the schedule A, you merely have to show that the trust owns property to validate it. My trust owns $10.

5/31/2013 6:10:45 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm going on stamp #3 and add item when I have stamp in my possession.

Just concerned if I pass and items are not listed that it might screw my beneficiaries from a "easy" tax free transfer.
5/31/2013 6:26:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I'm going on stamp #3 and add item when I have stamp in my possession.

Just concerned if I pass and items are not listed that it might screw my beneficiaries from a "easy" tax free transfer.


That's exactly why the schedule A should be updated.

If it's not on the Schedule A... The trust technically doesn't own it.

ETA: Which also means that somebody would be in possession of a non registered NFA item I believe.
5/31/2013 6:37:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going on stamp #3 and add item when I have stamp in my possession.

Just concerned if I pass and items are not listed that it might screw my beneficiaries from a "easy" tax free transfer.


That's exactly why the schedule A should be updated.

If it's not on the Schedule A... The trust technically doesn't own it.

ETA: Which also means that somebody would be in possession of a non registered NFA item I believe.


Quoting the guy who wrote the book on NFA trusts and the guy who did my trust:

You do not have to add your nfa items to your schedule "A" of you trust. The schedule "A" is generally to acknowledge receipt of something (usually $10 or some other nominal amount) in order to fund the trust, which is the fiunal step in establishing it as a valid legal entity. If you wish to add them you certainly can, bu there is no need.

You certainly do not add an NFA item to the schedule "A" prior to getting back the approved transfer paperwork (Form 4) as until that comes back you cant have it yet, so how can your trust list it as an asset if you don't yet have permission.

As for there being an ATFE requirement that an instate attorney review your trust, there is none. The attorney is simply telling you you need someone licensed in your state to review the trust as she is not licensed in your state. Covering herself as she cannot render legal advice in a state she is not licensed in. If you have any questions regarding NFA trusts you can check out my articles from Small Arms Review March 07 and March 08 issues.

They pretty well lay out how and why a trust works and answer alot of questions on the subject. I believe you can find the articles on Florida Shooters Network in their NFA Forum. They have been picked up and posted on quite a number of sites since I wrote them. I started doing NFA trusts many years ago when no one had heard of them and after I wrote those articles and spoke at the NFATCA meetings at Knob Creek on the subject a couple of times, the use of Trusts for NFA really started to take off.

Bob J. Howell, Esq., FFL/SOT
5/31/2013 6:46:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I'm going on stamp #3 and add item when I have stamp in my possession.

Just concerned if I pass and items are not listed that it might screw my beneficiaries from a "easy" tax free transfer.


There is no tax to transfer ownership of an NFA item upon death to a beneficiary or heir.

ATF letter

5/31/2013 6:47:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going on stamp #3 and add item when I have stamp in my possession.

Just concerned if I pass and items are not listed that it might screw my beneficiaries from a "easy" tax free transfer.


That's exactly why the schedule A should be updated.

If it's not on the Schedule A... The trust technically doesn't own it.

ETA: Which also means that somebody would be in possession of a non registered NFA item I believe.


Quoting the guy who wrote the book on NFA trusts and the guy who did my trust:

You do not have to add your nfa items to your schedule "A" of you trust. The schedule "A" is generally to acknowledge receipt of something (usually $10 or some other nominal amount) in order to fund the trust, which is the fiunal step in establishing it as a valid legal entity. If you wish to add them you certainly can, bu there is no need.

You certainly do not add an NFA item to the schedule "A" prior to getting back the approved transfer paperwork (Form 4) as until that comes back you cant have it yet, so how can your trust list it as an asset if you don't yet have permission.

As for there being an ATFE requirement that an instate attorney review your trust, there is none. The attorney is simply telling you you need someone licensed in your state to review the trust as she is not licensed in your state. Covering herself as she cannot render legal advice in a state she is not licensed in. If you have any questions regarding NFA trusts you can check out my articles from Small Arms Review March 07 and March 08 issues.

They pretty well lay out how and why a trust works and answer alot of questions on the subject. I believe you can find the articles on Florida Shooters Network in their NFA Forum. They have been picked up and posted on quite a number of sites since I wrote them. I started doing NFA trusts many years ago when no one had heard of them and after I wrote those articles and spoke at the NFATCA meetings at Knob Creek on the subject a couple of times, the use of Trusts for NFA really started to take off.

Bob J. Howell, Esq., FFL/SOT


I stand corrected... But it sure doesn't make much sense.
5/31/2013 6:50:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:

I stand corrected... But it sure doesn't make much sense.


Doesn't to me either. I get a little dizzy just reading my trust and I can read 6 or 7 foreign languages.

Edited to trim quote tree.
5/31/2013 7:12:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going on stamp #3 and add item when I have stamp in my possession.

Just concerned if I pass and items are not listed that it might screw my beneficiaries from a "easy" tax free transfer.


There is no tax to transfer ownership of an NFA item upon death to a beneficiary or heir.

ATF letter



I fully understand there's no tax to transfer upon death.  

Please keep in mind I'm not trying to be an ass.

Just my understanding, and I am NOT an attorney, but for any NFA item purchased through a trust HAS to be listed in a schedule A.  Ill need to shoot my attorney a email asking his expert legal opinion on this, but I feel better knowing all my APPROVED items are listed in schedule a.  

I'm just a over paranoid kind of guy that doesn't look at now, rather at the future. My work provides a life insurance policy, and regardless if I'm at work or off if I wear my seatbelt and I'm killed in a crash as long as im buckled in my beneficiary gets an EXTRA $50,000.  In my NON expert legal opinion I think it will be a easy non tax transfer if all items are listed in schedule a. Hopefully Mr. Bass or Mr. Cody will chime in.
5/31/2013 7:38:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:

I fully understand there's no tax to transfer upon death.  

Please keep in mind I'm not trying to be an ass.

Just my understanding, and I am NOT an attorney, but for any NFA item purchased through a trust HAS to be listed in a schedule A.  Ill need to shoot my attorney a email asking his expert legal opinion on this, but I feel better knowing all my APPROVED items are listed in schedule a.  

I'm just a over paranoid kind of guy that doesn't look at now, rather at the future. My work provides a life insurance policy, and regardless if I'm at work or off if I wear my seatbelt and I'm killed in a crash as long as im buckled in my beneficiary gets an EXTRA $50,000.  In my NON expert legal opinion I think it will be a easy non tax transfer if all items are listed in schedule a. Hopefully Mr. Bass or Mr. Cody will chime in.


According to the guy that started all the NFA Trust stuff, they don't. Like I stated earlier, I'm waiting on number 9 and have never included a Schedule A with anything other than $10 listed on it and have not had a problem.
5/31/2013 7:59:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I'm going on stamp #3 and add item when I have stamp in my possession.

Just concerned if I pass and items are not listed that it might screw my beneficiaries from a "easy" tax free transfer.


Easier to add your beneficiaries as co-trustees (side question, can this be done as part of a will?).  No Form 5 that way.

6/1/2013 7:42:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:

I fully understand there's no tax to transfer upon death.  

Please keep in mind I'm not trying to be an ass.

Just my understanding, and I am NOT an attorney, but for any NFA item purchased through a trust HAS to be listed in a schedule A.  Ill need to shoot my attorney a email asking his expert legal opinion on this, but I feel better knowing all my APPROVED items are listed in schedule a.  

I'm just a over paranoid kind of guy that doesn't look at now, rather at the future. My work provides a life insurance policy, and regardless if I'm at work or off if I wear my seatbelt and I'm killed in a crash as long as im buckled in my beneficiary gets an EXTRA $50,000.  In my NON expert legal opinion I think it will be a easy non tax transfer if all items are listed in schedule a. Hopefully Mr. Bass or Mr. Cody will chime in.


According to the guy that started all the NFA Trust stuff, they don't. Like I stated earlier, I'm waiting on number 9 and have never included a Schedule A with anything other than $10 listed on it and have not had a problem.




A lot depends upon how your Trust is worded.  Does it state that all Trust property will be listed and updated on the Schedue A?  Or does it state that the Trust can own property listed elsewhere?  Where is that elsewhere? And do you have that "other" property list created?  How do you prove the Trust owns it upon your death if its not listed?

You have to do what your Trust says.  No one here can answer this or you.  Failure to follow the Trust's wording could result in the seizure of your weapons upon your death, or if some popo on a power trip decides to do a stupid "seizure" of what they mistakenly think are illegal weapons and you have to go to court and prove they are not illegal.  Good luck with that if your property isn't listed.  The ATF missing it over several stamps, isn't a sign that its correct, if you need to have it listed elsewhere.




6/1/2013 8:17:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:

A lot depends upon how your Trust is worded.  Does it state that all Trust property will be listed and updated on the Schedue A?  Or does it state that the Trust can own property listed elsewhere?  Where is that elsewhere? And do you have that "other" property list created?  How do you prove the Trust owns it upon your death if its not listed?

You have to do what your Trust says.  No one here can answer this or you.  Failure to follow the Trust's wording could result in the seizure of your weapons upon your death, or if some popo on a power trip decides to do a stupid "seizure" of what they mistakenly think are illegal weapons and you have to go to court and prove they are not illegal.  Good luck with that if your property isn't listed.  The ATF missing it over several stamps, isn't a sign that its correct, if you need to have it listed elsewhere.



What does it say on your Form 4's and 1's in block 2a?
You have your Form whatevers somewhere they can be accessed fairly easily, correct?
Those forms are federal tax documents signed, stamped and made valid as to the transfer and ownership of whatever item is listed on the form. Correct?

If Form X isn't valid with respect to ownership, transfer, etc.. Then there's no reason to carry copies around. Further, your ownership of whatever item couldn't be validated without a copy of your trust and a copy of your forms, so you better carry both. Technically, you couldn't leave the store with your item without first updating your Schedule A and would be committing a crime (felony?) by merely walking out of the dealer's door.

I have forms approved by Frushour, Lambert, Hinson, Santamaria, Flanigan, Pickles, Robertson and Dudash. Doesn't sound like a miss.
6/1/2013 11:01:21 AM EDT
[#13]
....so what your saying is I don't have to put anything other than the $100 I said the trust had in it when I created the trust even though I have 4 other NFA items assigned to the trust already.
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