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Posted: 11/9/2012 4:14:47 PM EDT
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So I went down to my sheriff's department jail to get my fingerprints done. (Fortunately there was a jailer who knew what he was doing, after I had to tell another one that scanning and printing the prints on the form isn't allowed).
I then went next door to see the sheriff. He wasn't there, had to come back. When I came back, the secretary took my Form 1's back to his office. A little while later a deputy came out and talked to me a bit about what I was doing. He said that they've never seen anyone come in with a Form 1, and said they mostly just see "class 3 transfers" (guess he was talking about Form 4's, but I don't see why a Form 1 would be such a shocker or different to them). The secretary came out and said I would need to go get a copy of my criminal history report from my 911 center. For a fee of TWENTY DOLLARS. I thought this was kind of odd, considering I know that the sheriff is a good guy and really pro-gun, but apparently makes class 3 applicants get a CH report before he signs off. It seems like a moot point to me, since doesn't the FBI do a background check on you anyways? He might be just trying to cover his ass but I don't see how he is getting anything accomplished, because the ATF would reject me if I actually had a history. And now I have to wait until next week before I can get signed off. Anyone else had CLEO's do this? By the way, I don't have a criminal history. I've never even gotten a speeding ticket. 
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| I've read people who had CLEO make them make an appointment for the meeting and even charging a fee for their signature. They probably do it to cover their butts and they profit off of it. It don't cost them but ink and paper per background check. Economy nowadays, they will take advantage of all preys. Thats why I went with a Trust. After 5 purchase, its enough to buy a Trust. Also you don't have to go meet with CLEO everytime. |
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So I went down to my sheriff's department jail to get my fingerprints done. (Fortunately there was a jailer who knew what he was doing, after I had to tell another one that scanning and printing the prints on the form isn't allowed). I then went next door to see the sheriff. He wasn't there, had to come back. When I came back, the secretary took my Form 1's back to his office. A little while later a deputy came out and talked to me a bit about what I was doing. He said that they've never seen anyone come in with a Form 1, and said they mostly just see "class 3 transfers" (guess he was talking about Form 4's, but I don't see why a Form 1 would be such a shocker or different to them). The secretary came out and said I would need to go get a copy of my criminal history report from my 911 center. For a fee of TWENTY DOLLARS. I thought this was kind of odd, considering I know that the sheriff is a good guy and really pro-gun, but apparently makes class 3 applicants get a CH report before he signs off. It seems like a moot point to me, since doesn't the FBI do a background check on you anyways? He might be just trying to cover his ass but I don't see how he is getting anything accomplished, because the ATF would reject me if I actually had a history. And now I have to wait until next week before I can get signed off. Anyone else had CLEO's do this? By the way, I don't have a criminal history. I've never even gotten a speeding ticket.
Better than sorry. Not signing it.... He's signing that your not a criminal. If I was in his shoes if do same thing. |
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Quoted: Better than sorry. Not signing it.... He's signing that your not a criminal. If I was in his shoes if do same thing. Actually, he's signing that he "has no information that the receipt or possession...would place the transferee in violation of state or federal law". Not to be contrary, but as written- I can truthfully sign that I have no information that possession by YOU (who I've of course never met and know nothing about) would place you in violation of state or federal law. I of course could not sign that you are not a criminal, nor would I...but I have no information that you are a prohibited person. (This just for illustration of course, not at all saying I believe you to be a BG.) An elected official, or someone concerned about how a "problem" would look in the news, might feel the personal need to expand upon what the law requires and the question that is actually being asked on the F4...but that doesn't make it lawful for them to do so. I'm glad that our state, amongst others, makes CLEOs answer the question as asked, and sign if there is no legal reason (making applicant a prohibited person) not to do so. I don't think they can add special little surprses like paying for a BG check...but I guess they could play games with the turnaround time for signature, or getting prints done, etc. |
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So I went down to my sheriff's department jail to get my fingerprints done. (Fortunately there was a jailer who knew what he was doing, after I had to tell another one that scanning and printing the prints on the form isn't allowed). I then went next door to see the sheriff. He wasn't there, had to come back. When I came back, the secretary took my Form 1's back to his office. A little while later a deputy came out and talked to me a bit about what I was doing. He said that they've never seen anyone come in with a Form 1, and said they mostly just see "class 3 transfers" (guess he was talking about Form 4's, but I don't see why a Form 1 would be such a shocker or different to them). The secretary came out and said I would need to go get a copy of my criminal history report from my 911 center. For a fee of TWENTY DOLLARS. I thought this was kind of odd, considering I know that the sheriff is a good guy and really pro-gun, but apparently makes class 3 applicants get a CH report before he signs off. It seems like a moot point to me, since doesn't the FBI do a background check on you anyways? He might be just trying to cover his ass but I don't see how he is getting anything accomplished, because the ATF would reject me if I actually had a history. And now I have to wait until next week before I can get signed off. Anyone else had CLEO's do this? By the way, I don't have a criminal history. I've never even gotten a speeding ticket.
It's been a while since I've done an individual transfer, but all of mine done as an individual were scanned and printed. |
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after I had to tell another one that scanning and printing the prints on the form isn't allowed). It's been a while since I've done an individual transfer, but all of mine done as an individual were scanned and printed. Same. My local Sheriff's office only does them electronically, and it's been that way for at least 12 years. They take your prints one finger at a time on a big machine, then print your fingerprints onto your cards. Never had a kick back from the ATF yet. -bob |
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The procedure described in the OP sounds reasonable to me. It's very similar to what I went through in Fairfax County, VA, when I got my first MG's back in the 1970's. Back then, the Police Chief was the go-to guy. Then he retired, and his successors refused to sign altogether. The person that signs now is the Sheriff, but he conducts his own independent investigation (including into proposed storage arrangements), and that adds up to an additional month to the total processing time. My point is that you should count yourself lucky.
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after I had to tell another one that scanning and printing the prints on the form isn't allowed). It's been a while since I've done an individual transfer, but all of mine done as an individual were scanned and printed. Same. My local Sheriff's office only does them electronically, and it's been that way for at least 12 years. They take your prints one finger at a time on a big machine, then print your fingerprints onto your cards. Never had a kick back from the ATF yet. -bob Yup scanning and printing is alot better for them as the machines can detect if prints are good enough or not. They don't have to waste paper and ink for old school ways if fingers don't get rolled right. |
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Really the question comes down to one of due diligence. There are always folks that curse the Sheriff and say he/she should just sign and move on. "It's my RIGHT!!!" I believe this would be irresponsible of the Sheriff. In my job (not a LEO), when I sign something I am certifying that a certain set of facts or representations are true and that I have done my homework enough to pass scrutiny of what a reasonable person with my knowledge would do before signing.
As such, I have no problem with a Sheriff who wants to run a background check, have a face to face conversation, and other non-extraordinary means before he signs my paperwork. Unlike some others, I see nothing wrong or nefarious here. Oddly enough, I have gotten over a dozen forms signed of in a half dozen different areas over the years without difficulty with this approach. If you put yourself in his/her shoes, how would you defend yourself against negligence claims if after signing one of these, someone did something horribly wrong and all you could say was "I just sign it" and move on. Many of these folks are elected and the ones who are not, serve at the pleasure of those elected. They are accountable for their actions. I agree that they should/must? sign these as part of their job and we should hold them to that, but I find nothing onerous in them wanting to do their homework before doing so. Of course YMMV. |
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after I had to tell another one that scanning and printing the prints on the form isn't allowed). It's been a while since I've done an individual transfer, but all of mine done as an individual were scanned and printed. Same. My local Sheriff's office only does them electronically, and it's been that way for at least 12 years. They take your prints one finger at a time on a big machine, then print your fingerprints onto your cards. Never had a kick back from the ATF yet. -bob Well that just threw me for a loop. I had always been under the impression that the cards must be done with ink and hand rolled, and that scanning and printed cards would be rejected. My cards aren't perfectly done. I guess if they get kicked back to me ill have them scan and print the next time. |
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after I had to tell another one that scanning and printing the prints on the form isn't allowed). It's been a while since I've done an individual transfer, but all of mine done as an individual were scanned and printed. Same. My local Sheriff's office only does them electronically, and it's been that way for at least 12 years. They take your prints one finger at a time on a big machine, then print your fingerprints onto your cards. Never had a kick back from the ATF yet. -bob Well that just threw me for a loop. I had always been under the impression that the cards must be done with ink and hand rolled, and that scanning and printed cards would be rejected. My cards aren't perfectly done. I guess if they get kicked back to me ill have them scan and print the next time. I had a card with a smudged print once. The Officer just took another print in the corner of the same square. No problems at all. |
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He might be just trying to cover his ass but I don't see how he is getting anything accomplished, because the ATF would reject me if I actually had a history. And now I have to wait until next week before I can get signed off.
Anyone else had CLEO's do this? By the way, I don't have a criminal history. I've never even gotten a speeding ticket.
The local sheriff here runs a extensive criminal background check on all folks who come and ask for a CLEO signature. The primary reason for the local background check is that the local Sheriff's requirements are more stingent that the ATF. There are a bunch of misdemeanor convictions or history of arrest that may show (in his eyes) poor judgement or lack of character. Stuff like public intoxication, misdemeanor pot possession, reckless driving, DUI, etc. Stuff that would get you disqualified from getting a CHL for example but that wouldnt disqualify you from purchasing a gun (NFA or non NFA have the same Federal standard for purchase). I am not passing judgement on the practice of denying folks sigs who at least at the federal level would pass, but may not be squeeky clean at th local level. However, they do have a reason why they do the extra background check here and it may be the same in your local jurisdiction. |
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If fingerprint cards get kicked back and have to be re-submitted, do you go to the back of the line or not? No usually they give you a piece of paper that states the error that you're suppose to send with the corrections back. Usually it'll go right back to the examiner desk. Its then up to their discretion to look it over when they have time. Usually no more than a 3 weeks turnaround. |
| the last form 1 i just had approved were full color copies i made at staples- on the same type of paper even with the back of the form blank. they were approved. so many PD's are now using the electronic scanning. i was skeptical and even the date on them are from like 5 years ago. your fingers don't change |
| also i recently had the sheriff call me and ask me about some arrest that was in the system, which is odd because this is the 5th class 3 item signed for, i have my carry license in both PA and FL, and also have my c&r license. i guess they were just lazy because the same court house dropped the charges and nothing ever came of it. |
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after I had to tell another one that scanning and printing the prints on the form isn't allowed). It's been a while since I've done an individual transfer, but all of mine done as an individual were scanned and printed. Same. My local Sheriff's office only does them electronically, and it's been that way for at least 12 years. They take your prints one finger at a time on a big machine, then print your fingerprints onto your cards. Never had a kick back from the ATF yet. -bob Well that just threw me for a loop. I had always been under the impression that the cards must be done with ink and hand rolled, and that scanning and printed cards would be rejected. My cards aren't perfectly done. I guess if they get kicked back to me ill have them scan and print the next time. I had a card with a smudged print once. The Officer just took another print in the corner of the same square. No problems at all. Mine aren't smudged. On one of the cards, my right ring finger is has a really vague area in the center of the pad. As if the it wasn't rolled with enough pressure or there wasn't enough ink. There are REALLY faint lines, but they aren't really pronounced. The other cards shows the prints fine. Doesn't the ATF send one copy to the FBI, and keep the other? Would they be more likely to keep the good or the bad card? What irks me is that the sides of the finger are fine, its just the epicenter of the pad. The pad is clearly visible on the bottom section where you do all 4 fingers though. |
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So I went down to my sheriff's department jail to get my fingerprints done. (Fortunately there was a jailer who knew what he was doing, after I had to tell another one that scanning and printing the prints on the form isn't allowed). I then went next door to see the sheriff. He wasn't there, had to come back. When I came back, the secretary took my Form 1's back to his office. A little while later a deputy came out and talked to me a bit about what I was doing. He said that they've never seen anyone come in with a Form 1, and said they mostly just see "class 3 transfers" (guess he was talking about Form 4's, but I don't see why a Form 1 would be such a shocker or different to them). The secretary came out and said I would need to go get a copy of my criminal history report from my 911 center. For a fee of TWENTY DOLLARS. I thought this was kind of odd, considering I know that the sheriff is a good guy and really pro-gun, but apparently makes class 3 applicants get a CH report before he signs off. It seems like a moot point to me, since doesn't the FBI do a background check on you anyways? He might be just trying to cover his ass but I don't see how he is getting anything accomplished, because the ATF would reject me if I actually had a history. And now I have to wait until next week before I can get signed off. Anyone else had CLEO's do this? By the way, I don't have a criminal history. I've never even gotten a speeding ticket.
I'm in a small town and know the sheriff well. We have shot together. I still have a Trust for my class 3 stuff. None of his business what I buy, and shouldn't be under his control. YMMV |
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I went to my Police Chief for my sign off. He said to come pick up my paperwork the next day. When I called him on the phone the next day, he said "I don't feel comfortable with you having such things." (One suppressor and one Form 1 for SBR)
I went down to the station to pick up my paperwork, and he had my "name" on the envelope. It was freaking misspelled! It's proof that he didn't even bother looking at the forms! I went to my Sheriff, he signed in 3 days. He then told me not to go down to that "***hole ever again!" I've been very very happy with my outcome. |
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