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Posted: 11/27/2011 2:56:51 PM EDT
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So when I was 18 (now 40) I had a petty theft. Fine, community service, done. At 25 I had a possession of controlled substance that was a plea in abayance and was dropped when I completed the classes and fine. The judge told me I could legally say I was never convicted of a crime when it was dismissed.
How is the form for a suppressor worded? Am I disqualified? No issues for just over 15 years now. UT background check was blank, and I got my CWP no problem. Thanks. |
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As far as Federal law is concerned, it is the requirements are the same as buying a regular title-1 firearm. No convictions of a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year. However, Federal law defines "crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year" as not including state misdemeanors punishable by two or less years, and certain anti-trust violations. There are the others like not a user of illegal drugs, no restraining orders against you, dishonorable discharge, misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, etc.
You should probably look up the statutes for the petty theft and possession of a controlled substance as they were in effect at the time it happened to be sure. I think you are ok. ATF Form 4 from their form download page. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night. ETA: Quoted:
If you can fill out a NICS check and get approved, you can get Class III, it is possible you could get a "conditional" on a nics check, so not sure how that would effect a Class III getting approved What id a conditional approval? I've never heard of that. See, I told you I'm not a lawyer. I thought it was either approved or denied, sometimes after a delay. |
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Thanks. I guess I will have to just go down and apply.
I have zero history at the Utah BCI. My permit to carry is not conditional. The judge told me that since it would be held in abeyance and dismissed when my fine / class was complete, it would not show up on my record and I had the right to say I had never been convicted of a crime. When I applied for my carry permit, it specifically asked about all criminal cases, even pleas in abeyance. My instructor asked if I had ever served any jail time, and I said no as I have not....so I put no on the application. The last thing I want is to lie on a form like this, but if the judge said I was OK to say no, I will go with that. Thanks again. |
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Quoted:
As far as Federal law is concerned, it is the requirements are the same as buying a regular title-1 firearm. No convictions of a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year. However, Federal law defines "crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year" as not including state misdemeanors punishable by two or less years, and certain anti-trust violations. There are the others like not a user of illegal drugs, no restraining orders against you, dishonorable discharge, misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, etc. You should probably look up the statutes for the petty theft and possession of a controlled substance as they were in effect at the time it happened to be sure. I think you are ok. ATF Form 4 from their form download page. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night. ETA: Quoted:
If you can fill out a NICS check and get approved, you can get Class III, it is possible you could get a "conditional" on a nics check, so not sure how that would effect a Class III getting approved What id a conditional approval? I've never heard of that. See, I told you I'm not a lawyer. I thought it was either approved or denied, sometimes after a delay. Usually a conditional is like being denied but with the condition it means there is something on your record. Such as the OP saying that there shouldnt be anything on there. When a NICS check is done, that stuff may acutally show up, and then it would be up to the OP or anyone else to get that squared away. I may not be using the term right, so bear with me on this. Its usually stuff that people did as a kid, under 18 and its not suppose to be on your adult records but 9 outa 10 times it does show up. |
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Has this charge been expunged from your record? You need to find that out through the court.
EXCEPTION 1: A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12c or 12i, as applicable. A person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence also is not covered by the prohibition unless: (1) the person was represented by a lawyer or gave up the right to a lawyer; and (2) if the person was entitled to a jury, was tried by a jury or gave up the right to a jury trial. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12i. |
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The judge told me that since it would be held in abeyance and dismissed when my fine / class was complete, it would not show up on my record and I had the right to say I had never been convicted of a crime. When I applied for my carry permit, it specifically asked about all criminal cases, even pleas in abeyance. My instructor asked if I had ever served any jail time, and I said no as I have not....so I put no on the application. As others have said, if you've been buying Title I guns with no prob, you should be find. Just to allay concerns and clean things up for the future, though: A NCIC check may well still show the arrest and/or plea, even if held in abeyance. Most jurisdictions have a process for full expungement, wherein you can truly get the national database to show the charge/sentencing never happened. If you can get someone to run a NCIC check on you, see if any record of anything appears. If so, contact the DA's office in the jurisdiction for instructions on how to get full expungement. I'm not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice. It's a tip from someone who had an incident of wrong place/wrong time dumbassery in his youth; a charge was filed, but the case was nolle prossed (dropped by DA and never brought to trial, no plea, no punishment). I was told by my atty at the time that my record would be 100% clean since charges were dropped and went on with my life believing that legally, it Didn't Happen. Then, some 30 years later, after having held a few different state licenses that required BG check (plus beaucoup gun purchases)...I find out when applying to the local Citizen's Police Academy that I had an arrest record! I called the charging LEA (in another state), and they walked me through the process of expungement and referred me to the DA. Paperwork took a couple months to finally work through the system, but didn't require use of an attorney. You may wish to pursue this, just for peace of mind, as I did. The old charge never interfered with anything I'd wanted to do in life, but I still wanted it as "gone" as I'd always believed it to be. |
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Has this charge been expunged from your record? You need to find that out through the court. EXCEPTION 1: A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12c or 12i, as applicable. A person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence also is not covered by the prohibition unless: (1) the person was represented by a lawyer or gave up the right to a lawyer; and (2) if the person was entitled to a jury, was tried by a jury or gave up the right to a jury trial. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12i. That is why I suggested that he look up the statutes. The petty theft and possession of a controlled substance are probably state misdemeanors punishable by 2 years or less. If so, there is nothing to worry about. If they are more severe (or were at the time), then I'd talk to a lawyer who knows firearm law first. Again, I'm not a lawyer. |
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Has this charge been expunged from your record? You need to find that out through the court. EXCEPTION 1: A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12c or 12i, as applicable. A person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence also is not covered by the prohibition unless: (1) the person was represented by a lawyer or gave up the right to a lawyer; and (2) if the person was entitled to a jury, was tried by a jury or gave up the right to a jury trial. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12i. That is why I suggested that he look up the statutes. The petty theft and possession of a controlled substance are probably state misdemeanors punishable by 2 years or less. If so, there is nothing to worry about. If they are more severe (or were at the time), then I'd talk to a lawyer who knows firearm law first. Again, I'm not a lawyer. For federal purposes, that would be irrelevant. He could have had felony charges dismissed and still be as-eligible as he is now. Except in the case of pending charges, charges themselves are not a disqualifier, with some limited exceptions. Convictions are. Some states, however, do prohibit posession by individuals whose charges were disposed of through certain diversionary programs |
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Usually a conditional is like being denied but with the condition it means there is something on your record. No such thing. Response from NICS is either "Proceed", "Denied", "Cancelled" or "Delayed". Delayed is what actually meant to say in my original reply. Thanks for clearing that up, dont know why that word didnt come to me in the first place. lol |
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Usually a conditional is like being denied but with the condition it means there is something on your record. No such thing. Response from NICS is either "Proceed", "Denied", "Cancelled" or "Delayed". Delayed is what actually meant to say in my original reply. Thanks for clearing that up, dont know why that word didnt come to me in the first place. lol What does "Canceled" mean? Thanks for playing, try again? Not being a smartass, that is a serious question. Quoted:
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Has this charge been expunged from your record? You need to find that out through the court. EXCEPTION 1: A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12c or 12i, as applicable. A person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence also is not covered by the prohibition unless: (1) the person was represented by a lawyer or gave up the right to a lawyer; and (2) if the person was entitled to a jury, was tried by a jury or gave up the right to a jury trial. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12i. That is why I suggested that he look up the statutes. The petty theft and possession of a controlled substance are probably state misdemeanors punishable by 2 years or less. If so, there is nothing to worry about. If they are more severe (or were at the time), then I'd talk to a lawyer who knows firearm law first. Again, I'm not a lawyer. For federal purposes, that would be irrelevant. He could have had felony charges dismissed and still be as-eligible as he is now. Except in the case of pending charges, charges themselves are not a disqualifier, with some limited exceptions. Convictions are. Some states, however, do prohibit posession by individuals whose charges were disposed of through certain diversionary programs It sounds to me like the petty theft was a conviction. If so and if I was his shoes, I'd spend a couple minutes online to look up the statute, at the time of the offense, to be sure before sending in the paperwork. |
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Usually a conditional is like being denied but with the condition it means there is something on your record. No such thing. Response from NICS is either "Proceed", "Denied", "Cancelled" or "Delayed". Delayed is what actually meant to say in my original reply. Thanks for clearing that up, dont know why that word didnt come to me in the first place. lol What does "Canceled" mean? Thanks for playing, try again? Not being a smartass, that is a serious question. Quoted:
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Has this charge been expunged from your record? You need to find that out through the court. EXCEPTION 1: A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12c or 12i, as applicable. A person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence also is not covered by the prohibition unless: (1) the person was represented by a lawyer or gave up the right to a lawyer; and (2) if the person was entitled to a jury, was tried by a jury or gave up the right to a jury trial. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12i. That is why I suggested that he look up the statutes. The petty theft and possession of a controlled substance are probably state misdemeanors punishable by 2 years or less. If so, there is nothing to worry about. If they are more severe (or were at the time), then I'd talk to a lawyer who knows firearm law first. Again, I'm not a lawyer. For federal purposes, that would be irrelevant. He could have had felony charges dismissed and still be as-eligible as he is now. Except in the case of pending charges, charges themselves are not a disqualifier, with some limited exceptions. Convictions are. Some states, however, do prohibit posession by individuals whose charges were disposed of through certain diversionary programs It sounds to me like the petty theft was a conviction. If so and if I was his shoes, I'd spend a couple minutes online to look up the statute, at the time of the offense, to be sure before sending in the paperwork. Re-read the OP. Got it. I read through it too quickely the first time and read diversion as well- though I believe you are right that the theft charge resulted in a conviction. What does "Canceled" mean? Thanks for playing, try again? Not being a smartass, that is a serious question.
A cancelled transacion is one that the dealer cancels because the actual transfer did not occur: e.g. if you you go through the paperwork and NICS and then decide against buying the gun, the dealer would call in an cancel the transaction. Same if the dealer decided to back out for some reason. An industry partner has described using it in situations where he was attempting to ascertain the actual purchaser. |
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