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Posted: 6/7/2011 6:38:29 AM EDT
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All,
A NFA trust drawn up by a lawyer around here is expensive. Any one knows if it legal to copy a friend's trust? If ok, whats is my next step after i have the hard-copies work out? Have it notarized? Do i need to submit it to any gov entity to make it legit..etc? My apologizes if this have been covered somewhere else. |
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You need to check state laws. some of us took the expense and time to have it done right and LEGALLY by a lawyer. If you want to play with your future to be a cheapskate and moocher, go ahead. Wow..that was any un-productive responds...thanks for your time buddy! so you're telling me it fine for a lawyer to charge me 700 plus dollars to fill in my name on the same paperwork that he will give my friend. When we can split the cost and one of us copy the trust and save 700 bills instead pay 1400 for a couple line change. hmmm thanks for the jabs on being a cheapskate and moocher. Some people may think i'm exploring other legal options. |
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Local guy here does them for $195 out the door, and he's done around 400 without a single return. I'd say shop around a bit.... Plenty of people have done their own, but I'd rather have the peace of mind knowing all the details are ironed out... Would you IM me that info? Thanks. |
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Local guy here does them for $195 out the door, and he's done around 400 without a single return. I'd say shop around a bit.... Plenty of people have done their own, but I'd rather have the peace of mind knowing all the details are ironed out... Would you IM me that info? Thanks. sent |
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You need to check state laws. some of us took the expense and time to have it done right and LEGALLY by a lawyer. If you want to play with your future to be a cheapskate and moocher, go ahead. Wow..that was any un-productive responds...thanks for your time buddy! so you're telling me it fine for a lawyer to charge me 700 plus dollars to fill in my name on the same paperwork that he will give my friend. When we can split the cost and one of us copy the trust and save 700 bills instead pay 1400 for a couple line change. hmmm thanks for the jabs on being a cheapskate and moocher. Some people may think i'm exploring other legal options. Im sorry your too lazy to shop around and want to take the easy route. Also what your doing may not be legal in your state, hence my advice to check local state laws. Also, some places in the world may consider what your doing as "practicing law without a license" Also, the whole trust thing has just hit the media, not sure why, but the last thing we want is unwanted attention and some news print headline that reads how people are "Exploring other legal options" as you put it , this will get things tightened up and itll ruin it for everyone. The Brady Bunch already considers the trust way as a Gray area loophole, but its perfectly legal and the Brady bunch doesnt know what they are talking about, we just dont want any lime light and anything on how to skirt the system . |
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You need to check state laws. some of us took the expense and time to have it done right and LEGALLY by a lawyer. If you want to play with your future to be a cheapskate and moocher, go ahead. Wow..that was any un-productive responds...thanks for your time buddy! so you're telling me it fine for a lawyer to charge me 700 plus dollars to fill in my name on the same paperwork that he will give my friend. When we can split the cost and one of us copy the trust and save 700 bills instead pay 1400 for a couple line change. hmmm thanks for the jabs on being a cheapskate and moocher. Some people may think i'm exploring other legal options. Im sorry your too lazy to shop around and want to take the easy route. Also what your doing may not be legal in your state, hence my advice to check local state laws. Also, some places in the world may consider what your doing as "practicing law without a license" Also, the whole trust thing has just hit the media, not sure why, but the last thing we want is unwanted attention and some news print headline that reads how people are "Exploring other legal options" as you put it , this will get things tightened up and itll ruin it for everyone. The Brady Bunch already considers the trust way as a Gray area loophole, but its perfectly legal and the Brady bunch doesnt know what they are talking about, we just dont want any lime light and anything on how to skirt the system . Wow!! you like to argue and insult people don't you? im asking a simple question on a post and all your responds have been accusing and simply uncalled for. What up with you? Do you need a hug? Your post count indicts you need something else to do besides hawking this site. Good day to you sir! |
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Plenty of people have set up their own trusts successfully, and a few have had them voided after the fact, getting them in a bit of hot water.
Check your state laws regarding trusts and if they can be set up by an individual. And don't poke DT too much, he must be in a bad mood today... |
| Nope, just dont like to see noobs come in here and try and half ass things trying to "explore other options" when they may or may not be legal and can certainly raise some red flags if you dont know what your doing. That is why people pay good money to a lawyer. I personally dont care what you do, but when we have the BradyBunch up our asses its smart to do things without iffy practices. In some states a Trust is not legal for doing ClassIII/NFA stuff, I have no idea, that is why I suggest you check your laws and do some homework. Sorry you dont like the real world answer. Go ahead and send in a fucked up Trust cause you dont know what your doing. ATF doesnt play, they will kick that shit back and now you add 100 or even 1000 dumbfucks doing the same thing, the ATF will start getting wise and tighten the restrictions even more than they already are. |
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Nope, just dont like to see noobs come in here and try and half ass things trying to "explore other options" when they may or may not be legal and can certainly raise some red flags if you dont know what your doing. That is why people pay good money to a lawyer. I personally dont care what you do, but when we have the BradyBunch up our asses its smart to do things without iffy practices. In some states a Trust is not legal for doing ClassIII/NFA stuff, I have no idea, that is why I suggest you check your laws and do some homework. Sorry you dont like the real world answer. Go ahead and send in a fucked up Trust cause you dont know what your doing. ATF doesnt play, they will kick that shit back and now you add 100 or even 1000 dumbfucks doing the same thing, the ATF will start getting wise and tighten the restrictions even more than they already are. I am fully aware of the whats going on in the media "explore other options" is exactly what it means, exploring!! look it up in the dictionary you prick! Noob i may be in the trust dept that why i asked. I have two SBR as a individual so i am fully aware of the NFA process as an individual. If you dont care stay the fuck off my queries! I came here to see if it possible as part of my research. I dont need a slimy prick shitting on every comment i make. Please please go rate up your post count on somewhere else. Again have a nice day and please go away. |
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Plenty of people have set up their own trusts successfully, and a few have had them voided after the fact, getting them in a bit of hot water. Check your state laws regarding trusts and if they can be set up by an individual. And don't poke DT too much, he must be in a bad mood today... Thank you RDTCU…A couple of people i know set up their trust using Willmaker. They have success in obtaining their items with it. I haven't been able to review a copy of a lawyer drawn up trust to compare. Basically, my question is since people use willmaker, which is a generic trust; fill in necessary personal info and off they go. Wouldn’t be possible to take a lawyer drawn copy up and replace one person info with other, like the generic willmaker copy? Looking to see if this was done before...if this option is not feasible, then i will abandon it. So far I have one guy pissing on my parade without sensible communication dialogue. |
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Nope, just dont like to see noobs come in here and try and half ass things trying to "explore other options" when they may or may not be legal and can certainly raise some red flags if you dont know what your doing. That is why people pay good money to a lawyer. I personally dont care what you do, but when we have the BradyBunch up our asses its smart to do things without iffy practices. In some states a Trust is not legal for doing ClassIII/NFA stuff, I have no idea, that is why I suggest you check your laws and do some homework. Sorry you dont like the real world answer. Go ahead and send in a fucked up Trust cause you dont know what your doing. ATF doesnt play, they will kick that shit back and now you add 100 or even 1000 dumbfucks doing the same thing, the ATF will start getting wise and tighten the restrictions even more than they already are. I am fully aware of the whats going on in the media "explore other options" is exactly what it means, exploring!! look it up in the dictionary you prick! Noob i may be in the trust dept that why i asked. I have two SBR as a individual so i am fully aware of the NFA process as an individual. If you dont care stay the fuck off my queries! I came here to see if it possible as part of my research. I dont need a slimy prick shitting on every comment i make. Please please go rate up your post count on somewhere else. Again have a nice day and please go away. LoL...your stay here on arfcom is going to be a short one I see. |
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I just bought my 5th (or 6th??) NFA item yesterday. I was all set to go get my passport photos, deal with the extra two weeks my county sheriff needs to do a background check on me BEFORE they sign off. But then an amazing thing happened. My new class 3 dealer asked if I had a trust. When I said no, that I had looked into but essentially was too lazy and cheap, he told me he has a membership to legal zoom and he did it right there, on the spot for free. Took ten minutes. I trust legal zoom, I trust him, and I do not expect BATFE to have any issues with it.
If the BATFE views my trust as legit, is it worth any more or less than spending $$$ with an attorney? That could be another can and tax stamp I just saved! Check out legal zoom or see if any dealers in your area provide this service. Good luck! |
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You could just use the Quicken 2009 willmaker version like 100s of other people.
If your friends trust is good for your state, it is more than likely OK (if your friend had a lawyer draw it up, there may be some restriction on reuse but who would know). A lot of people use the cookie cutter trusts (I bet some lawyers do as well). I would suggest that you make the name of your trust short for ease of engraving. When I made my trust (quicken), I exported and edited it a little since I wanted to add more trustees and change the name it automatically makes. Part 1. Trust Name This revocable living trust shall be known as the XXX Trust. -This way I don't have to engrave Revocable Living Trust on my lower I would personally get it notorized + a few copies (In my state you don't have to have anything notorized). I don't know if you have to submit your trust to anyone or not since that is a state issue (In TX you don't). |
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I just bought my 5th (or 6th??) NFA item yesterday. I was all set to go get my passport photos, deal with the extra two weeks my county sheriff needs to do a background check on me BEFORE they sign off. But then an amazing thing happened. My new class 3 dealer asked if I had a trust. When I said no, that I had looked into but essentially was too lazy and cheap, he told me he has a membership to legal zoom and he did it right there, on the spot for free. Took ten minutes. I trust legal zoom, I trust him, and I do not expect BATFE to have any issues with it. If the BATFE views my trust as legit, is it worth any more or less than spending $$$ with an attorney? That could be another can and tax stamp I just saved! Check out legal zoom or see if any dealers in your area provide this service. Good luck! "If the BATFE views my trust as legit, is it worth any more or less than spending $$$ with an attorney? That could be another can and tax stamp I just saved! " Damn that hit the nail square in the head! Will def check out legal zoom. thnks |
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I just bought my 5th (or 6th??) NFA item yesterday. I was all set to go get my passport photos, deal with the extra two weeks my county sheriff needs to do a background check on me BEFORE they sign off. But then an amazing thing happened. My new class 3 dealer asked if I had a trust. When I said no, that I had looked into but essentially was too lazy and cheap, he told me he has a membership to legal zoom and he did it right there, on the spot for free. Took ten minutes. I trust legal zoom, I trust him, and I do not expect BATFE to have any issues with it. If the BATFE views my trust as legit, is it worth any more or less than spending $$$ with an attorney? That could be another can and tax stamp I just saved! Check out legal zoom or see if any dealers in your area provide this service. Good luck! "If the BATFE views my trust as legit, is it worth any more or less than spending $$$ with an attorney? That could be another can and tax stamp I just saved! " Damn that hit the nail square in the head! Will def check out legal zoom. thnks You can download quicken 2009 will maker for around $30.... |
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I just bought my 5th (or 6th??) NFA item yesterday. I was all set to go get my passport photos, deal with the extra two weeks my county sheriff needs to do a background check on me BEFORE they sign off. But then an amazing thing happened. My new class 3 dealer asked if I had a trust. When I said no, that I had looked into but essentially was too lazy and cheap, he told me he has a membership to legal zoom and he did it right there, on the spot for free. Took ten minutes. I trust legal zoom, I trust him, and I do not expect BATFE to have any issues with it. If the BATFE views my trust as legit, is it worth any more or less than spending $$$ with an attorney? That could be another can and tax stamp I just saved! Check out legal zoom or see if any dealers in your area provide this service. Good luck! "If the BATFE views my trust as legit, is it worth any more or less than spending $$$ with an attorney? That could be another can and tax stamp I just saved! " Damn that hit the nail square in the head! Will def check out legal zoom. thnks You can download quicken 2009 will maker for around $30.... Thanks, I already have access to quicken. My main search right now is to see if its doable to copy an existing trust drawn up by a lawyer in my state. Since the lawyer's trust will most likely cover the base better than the straight out generic trusts. |
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Copying your friends trust could be a violation of federal copyright laws. +1. It always strikes me odd that folks who view themselves as generally honest, and who would never steal someone's physical property, think that stealing intellectual property (recorded music, software, written works, etc.) is somehow different...and that such theft is easily-rationalized. I think (or would like to think) that such folks are well-intentioned, and just don't really grok that stealing someone's work is stealing someone's work, whether it was made in a machine shop or on a keyboard. Just because there was little/no material cost in manufacturing the intellectual property, and the creation of a duplicate doesn't deny the first owner of the property its use (as would, say, stealing a magazine out of someone's range bag)...the work is the property of its creator (and/or assigns), and that creator has the right to determine whether copies are made, and whether or not to charge for them. Such attitudes pretty much killed the music industry; even though it may seem so, it's not a victimless crime. Not really sitting in judgment here...I'm just sayin'. |
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As others have said, copying a legal document such as a trust violates fair use and could be viewed as practicing law without a license.
I paid like $250-300 for our trust. It's a small price to pay considering the cost of NFA items and the risk associated with using a poorly written or otherwise invalid document. To me it was like a one time payment insurance policy. Then again I'm the type of person that carries full coverage with the highest stackable liability limits on our cars, I don't carry the bare minimum liability coverage and HOPE that any accident I'm in is a cheap one. Copying someone's trust is like driving without insurance. If you want to save money and take the "Safe Auto" bare minimum approach, goto legalzoom or use quicken willmaker and take your chances. Otherwise, shop around, you can find a real lawyer to do it for a few hundred bucks or less. |
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As others have said, copying a legal document such as a trust violates fair use and could be viewed as practicing law without a license. I paid like $250-300 for our trust. It's a small price to pay considering the cost of NFA items and the risk associated with using a poorly written or otherwise invalid document. To me it was like a one time payment insurance policy. Then again I'm the type of person that carries full coverage with the highest stackable liability limits on our cars, I don't carry the bare minimum liability coverage and HOPE that any accident I'm in is a cheap one. Copying someone's trust is like driving without insurance. If you want to save money and take the "Safe Auto" bare minimum approach, goto legalzoom or use quicken willmaker and take your chances. Otherwise, shop around, you can find a real lawyer to do it for a few hundred bucks or less. I agree, but I am baised as I do these things for clients all day long. And I only charge $300 to AR15 members in Texas, which I think is a fair price (and no one has ever told me otherwise). That way, if you ever have an issue (you have a question on how to fill out a form, want to amend your trust, how to add to your schedule A, ect) you have someone to call. And I personally don't charge for helping after the fact. |
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Yup unexpected drama from what i thought was simple question. Thank you most for your sound reasoning responds. Im guessing if anyone did copy a trust they wont dare pop their heads up now. You completely missed the point, which didnt surprise me in the slightest, many have said the same thing I did. |
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All, A NFA trust drawn up by a lawyer around here is expensive. Any one knows if it legal to copy a friend's trust? If ok, whats is my next step after i have the hard-copies work out? Have it notarized? Do i need to submit it to any gov entity to make it legit..etc? My apologizes if this have been covered somewhere else. All these questions are exactly WHY you want to go to lawyer. If a few hundred dollars to it right is putting you off, maybe NFA collecting is not really a hobby you should get into. I am not trying to be a jerk but there is nothing more expensive than cheap legal services. |
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Yup unexpected drama from what i thought was simple question. Thank you most for your sound reasoning responds. Im guessing if anyone did copy a trust they wont dare pop their heads up now. You completely missed the point, which didnt surprise me in the slightest, many have said the same thing I did. You again wow?! i am hearing what everyone is saying and i respect all their advise...Maybe you should learn to communicate like they did. Guess you dont have a good sense on when you’re not want. |
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Yup unexpected drama from what i thought was simple question. Thank you most for your sound reasoning responds. Im guessing if anyone did copy a trust they wont dare pop their heads up now. You completely missed the point, which didnt surprise me in the slightest, many have said the same thing I did. You again wow?! i am hearing what everyone is saying and i respect all their advise...Maybe you should learn to communicate like they did. Guess you dont have a good sense on when you’re not want. wow,,your not one to give any kind of advice thats for sure. |
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... My new class 3 dealer asked if I had a trust. When I said no, that I had looked into but essentially was too lazy and cheap, he told me he has a membership to legal zoom and he did it right there, on the spot for free. Took ten minutes. I trust legal zoom, I trust him, and I do not expect BATFE to have any issues with it ... If the NFA dealer drafted your trust for you, isn't that practicing law without a license ? |
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... My new class 3 dealer asked if I had a trust. When I said no, that I had looked into but essentially was too lazy and cheap, he told me he has a membership to legal zoom and he did it right there, on the spot for free. Took ten minutes. I trust legal zoom, I trust him, and I do not expect BATFE to have any issues with it ... If the NFA dealer drafted your trust for you, isn't that practicing law without a license ? Only if he charged you for it, just like you can do your own and be legal (IF and only IF your state's trust law allows it) |
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