Armory Sponsor
Posted: 7/29/2009 6:15:14 AM EDT
| So, I'm looking for a bolt carrier group for an SBR I'm building. But it seems all I could find is Full-auto bolt carriers in the brad I am looking for. Which got me to checking, which has left me with no clear answer. 1st question, should I shy away from the FA BCG because it weighs more and may cause short stroking? 2nd, Is the FA BC legal or not? 3rd and I'm sure this is a dead horse but I really don't want to mar my beautiful lower, Does it need to be engraved? I'm asking because my local dealer is now saying he has a letter that says no... Please no quips from the peanut gallery on this one, I'm getting real tired of wadding through the BS to find the answer. |
| You have the engrave your lower, since you are making a SBR. As to the full auto bolt group, it is highly advisable that you NOT use it. The current legal requirements are murky at best. Prior to the early 1990's, the BATFE had issued a letter to manufactures that it was ok for them to use full auto parts, such as bolts, in the building of semi-auto rifles, so long as, the full auto trigger control mechanisms were not installed and the lower prevented the unaltered use of a full auto control mechanism. Thus, many Colt AR-15s, green labels and before, came with the full auto bolt. The BATFE, in the early 90's, decided that their prior position was incorrect and they sent letters to the manufacturers stating that they could not use full auto parts in their semi-auto rifles. These issues culminated in the Olofson case, where he was convicted because an AR-15 that he purchased from Olympic, when it was lawful to have the full auto parts, would occasionally do a burst when soft primers were used. Olofson was convicted for transferring an illegal machinegun, because he had lent the rifle to a friend, where, while the friend was at the range, the rifle did a burst and law enforcement observed this. Thus, I would advise against using ANY full auto parts in a semi-auto gun. |
|
Except that Colt is shipping their civilian products with bolt carriers that are not in any way neutered (full circle, full length rear section, often mis-named "full auto" carriers)...
A heavier carrier won't cause "short stroking" as much as it will slow down cycling. Short stroking usually comes from something like not enough gas or a burr in the carrier key, but the extra weight of a heavier carrier would have almost zero effect on unlocking. I'd like to see this dealer's letter: if you SBR a lower, you "make" it and NFA firearm. ATF rules state that the "maker" of a firearm engrave the maker's name and city/state on the firearm, as well as engraving a serial number. You can use the original manufacturer's serial number and then have your name and city/state engraved somewhere inconspicuous, like on either side of the bottom where the trigger comes out. This engraving does not need to be very large-I had mine engraved with 1/8" high lettering-and you can have the shiny aluminum blackened immediately, making the marking almost invisible if you're not looking for it. |
|
Quoted:
I was told the heavier BC and Buffer required more pressure to cycle. If this is not the case then no worries... As for the engraving  , I'll be going the safe route. Thanks guysIf anything you want a heavier BCG as SBRs tend to throw around the BCG like a red headed step child, so they take the abuse much better than a SA BCG. And dont listen to the guy saying not to get one because of govt regs, hes clueless. As long as you dont have an M16 FCG, the FA BCG is completely legal. |
|
Quoted:
If anything you want a heavier BCG as SBRs tend to throw around the BCG like a red headed step child, so they take the abuse much better than a SA BCG. And dont listen to the guy saying not to get one because of govt regs, hes clueless. As long as you dont have an M16 FCG, the FA BCG is completely legal. I'm clueless? Maybe you should do a little investigating before calling people names. Mr. Olofson's AR-15 did NOT have any full auto fire control parts and he was CONVICTED for transferring an illegal machinegun, even though he hadn't even received a letter from Olympic regarding the change in the BATFE's position (Olympic lost all of its records in a fire) and the gun would only occasionally malfunction with soft primers. Oh yeah, Mr. Olofson was also a Army reserve firearms instructor, so it wasn't like this guy was a member of the Hells Angels.... |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
If anything you want a heavier BCG as SBRs tend to throw around the BCG like a red headed step child, so they take the abuse much better than a SA BCG. And dont listen to the guy saying not to get one because of govt regs, hes clueless. As long as you dont have an M16 FCG, the FA BCG is completely legal. I'm clueless? Maybe you should do a little investigating before calling people names. Mr. Olofson's AR-15 did NOT have any full auto fire control parts and he was CONVICTED for transferring an illegal machinegun, even though he hadn't even received a letter from Olympic regarding the change in the BATFE's position (Olympic lost all of its records in a fire) and the gun would only occasionally malfunction with soft primers. Oh yeah, Mr. Olofson was also a Army reserve firearms instructor, so it wasn't like this guy was a member of the Hells Angels.... Colt, Noveske and Daniel Defense ALL ship standard with an M16 carrier. Even Colt's Match Target line of AWB ban compliant guns ships with M16 carriers. There is zero legal issue with having an M16 carrier in your gun. Period. |
|
Quoted: Mr. Olofson's AR-15 did NOT have any full auto fire control parts Expert court testimony said there were FOUR full-auto parts in the gun. Page7: Upon examination of Olofson’s AR-15, the ATF testing agent found that it had been assembled with four M-16 components — “the trigger, the hammer, the disconnector, and the selector switch” http://www.gridsquare.net/olofson/US_v_Olofson_-_Brief_of_Appellant_w-App.pdf |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mr. Olofson's AR-15 did NOT have any full auto fire control parts Expert court testimony said there were FOUR full-auto parts in the gun. Page7: Upon examination of Olofson’s AR-15, the ATF testing agent found that it had been assembled with four M-16 components — “the trigger, the hammer, the disconnector, and the selector switch” http://www.gridsquare.net/olofson/US_v_Olofson_-_Brief_of_Appellant_w-App.pdf Joshua, yes it seems "clueless" is a fairly accurate term for this particular situation. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mr. Olofson's AR-15 did NOT have any full auto fire control parts Expert court testimony said there were FOUR full-auto parts in the gun. Page7: Upon examination of Olofson’s AR-15, the ATF testing agent found that it had been assembled with four M-16 components — “the trigger, the hammer, the disconnector, and the selector switch” http://www.gridsquare.net/olofson/US_v_Olofson_-_Brief_of_Appellant_w-App.pdf Need I say more? Besides, one court case does not make something illegal. Like I said, get a clue. On another note to the OP, if you need a reputable place to get the engraving done just shoot me a PM. Since youre in Oregon I know of a guy that does great quality work and i for one was impressed with the way mine turned out. |
| That is what the agents testified to, after they had checked out the gun, found that it was in compliance, and could not get it to malfunction. Only after the field agent insisted that their firearms expert continue trying with different ammo, specifically soft primers, did the gun malfunction and did the agents all of a sudden find that there were allegedly some fire control parts. Sometimes, especially in light of the things that len Savage has gone through where the BATFE will add 20 parts to make a gun a machinegun, things don't make sense. If the gun actually had the fire control parts, it wouldn't have malfunctioned only with soft primered ammo. |
|
Here is a letter from ATF that specifically states M16 Bolt Carriers are OK to use in a semi-auto.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ATF%20M16%20Letter.pdf |
|
Quoted:
That is what the agents testified to, after they had checked out the gun, found that it was in compliance, and could not get it to malfunction. Only after the field agent insisted that their firearms expert continue trying with different ammo, specifically soft primers, did the gun malfunction and did the agents all of a sudden find that there were allegedly some fire control parts. Sometimes, especially in light of the things that len Savage has gone through where the BATFE will add 20 parts to make a gun a machinegun, things don't make sense. If the gun actually had the fire control parts, it wouldn't have malfunctioned only with soft primered ammo.  This would be the time you should insert your foot in your mouth...it is a very good way to stop yourself from digging any deeper. Seriously man, do you really think companies would sell these carriers with SA rifles, and jepordize themselves like that if they were illeagal?
|
|
Quoted:
Every Semi-auto AK47, or AK74 that I have seen has the full auto bolt carrier installed. I've NEVER seen a full-auto AK carrier. There's a lump of metal on the shooter's right side, underneath the carrier and a bit behind the charging handle that trips an AK's auto sear. Every AK I've ever seen has had that lump ground off or not made with it at all. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Every Semi-auto AK47, or AK74 that I have seen has the full auto bolt carrier installed. I've NEVER seen a full-auto AK carrier. There's a lump of metal on the shooter's right side, underneath the carrier and a bit behind the charging handle that trips an AK's auto sear. Every AK I've ever seen has had that lump ground off or not made with it at all. Same here. MAK90s, WASR-10s are all S/A that I have owned. I have only seen F/A carriers in the Romy Parts kits. |
|
Quoted:
Here is a letter from ATF that specifically states M16 Bolt Carriers are OK to use in a semi-auto. http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ATF%20M16%20Letter.pdf Thank you, this is an answer. Some of you have been helpful... Again thanks Unless something else useful in regards to building a 10.5" piston driven is posted I don't see the need to continue this thread |
Armory Sponsor