Armory Sponsor
Posted: 5/4/2008 6:08:51 AM EDT
| I have a few SBR's, and some Non-SBR AR's. I've always made sure I have enough non-SBR uppers for all my non-SBR lowers since I have multiple SBR uppers for each lower, to ensure a legal configuration. Now I have an opportunity to get a few more non-SBR lowers. I don't want to buy more uppers right now. Is it okay if I buy the lowers and keep them off-premises, say, in a safety deposit box or rented storage shed? |
| I am not a lawyer. With that said I will have to answer - Probably not unless it is someone else's deposit box or storage shed that you do not have a key to. The reason is that you are still solely in "control" of what happens with them if the deposit box or shed "belong" to you. If you "gave" them to someone else to "keep" that did not also have any AR's then that person would have complete control or "possession" of those items. With that said, I would make sure the person you "give" them to would give them back. I would not do what you suggest. |
|
Previous Constructive Possession cases have established that you simply need a pathway to legality for the short barrel. You sound like you're squared away already since you already own SBRs to cover any short-barreled upper in your possession. You do not need an SBR or pistol lower for each short barrel in your possession, you simply need a single SBR or pistol lower to cover the legal use of any and all short barrels. You may legally have spare or accessory barrels and uppers for the same lower. While it's a good idea to store the spare short barrels separately from the Title I lowers, this is more of an "across the room" degree of safety, just to make sure there's nothing to imply their use on the Title I lowers. Your "possession" of any number of NFA length barrels is covered by the presence of any single SBR, MG or pistol lower. You sound like you're already there. |
|
I don't think these are the kind of things that people get prosecuted for unless they are doing something else much worse... Do you expect a search warrant? If not, just don't put the wrong upper on the wrong lower and don't worry about it. ETA: The easiest answer is to register your new lowers as a pistol on the 4473, this way they can be used as pistols w/ your short uppers on them, or as rifles with a regular upper and stock... |
Thanks for the replies. No, I don't think I need to kill the dog and soak the house in gasoline. Just want to make sure in case, for example, someone breaks in while I'm away on a business trip and the ol' lady calls the police to have them come out to the house and file a report, and they see my stuff in the basement, and...
|
"Constructive Possession" is not an arcane, seldom used violation like 922r, it's exceedingly serious and is the same degree of violation as "possession" itself. This concept of law applies to all NFA firearms except suppressors, AWs under the old AWB and even drugs. If you read up on firearms-related SCOTUS cases, you'll see this concept affirmed and reaffirmed: US v. Kent, US v. Drasen, US v. Thompson/Center. |
And this is why we own safes and instruct our SO's in how to handle interactions with the popo. 
|
i read all of those to say that, if you have any legal way to use said devices, their respective posession itself is legal. |
|
POPOhavekeep them locked in another safe all to their lonsome. If there ia cause for a search of the house IE a complaint about you and your guns the ATF can look where you keep those registered NFA items. I received this advice from a friend who is in the .Gov business. To all those who have their MG's ROCK ON and keep firing!! |
|
These may contain additional information of interest. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=243787 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=243082 |
If the ATF wants to look in your gun safe, they need a warrant. And if they get one they're going to look in all the gun safes. |
|
Correct on the warrant, however with NFA items you will need to present the firearm and paperwork on request. If they are at your door making the request you can shut the door in their face or invite them in for a seat. I guess the least amount of friction would be letting them see what they ask for and then closing the door as they leave. |
If you wish to invite them in it's your business, I was simply refuting the statement that you need to buy a separate gun safe because they're going to show up and inspect "wherever you keep your nfa items." |
|
The point to the seperate safe is with out a warrant they can only inspect NFA items. If you have everything in one safe and you just open the door your opening the content to their eyes. Im sure not everyone has the cash to pick up two or three safes but the idea is good to go. Were spending thousands on these toys and I know so many who just dont secure them properly. |
|
|
This was pulled off the ATF web site today in the NFA Handbook. "A person possessing a firearm registered as required by the NFA must retain proof of registration, that is, the registration form showing registration of the firearm to the person, which must be made available to ATF upon request.53" The article above was writen in 2001 and there have been changes since then. I will post any new information I find. |
Armory Sponsor