What all is wrong with this... > General NFA Questions

Posted: 4/27/2008 2:15:11 PM EDT

A guy on another forum posted this passage on a way to get 'around' the annoying high prices of NFA ownership. Let me hear some opinions....

You could also try, if your buddy buddy with the sheriff, to deputize you and allow you to purchase the weapon. Out here that isn't that far fetched and still is considered legal unless you lose the "badge". I found this out from a guy who didn't want to pay like 15K plus for an MP5 and found out if he did it that way it would have been just something like 2K. Can't verify, but just like certain body armor, if you can get an leo or mil to sign off on it, you can buy it.

Posted: 4/27/2008 2:19:33 PM EDT

[#1]

Sounds like bullshit to me, unless LE agencies like liabilities such as this hanging over their heads.

Posted: 4/27/2008 5:31:17 PM EDT

[#2]

Might work if you have some serious "dirt" on Mr. Taylor. However, what happens when a new constable is elected?

Posted: 4/27/2008 6:41:59 PM EDT

[#3]

I think it is more common than most people know.

Here is one for you. I live in rural Texas and the local water supplier which was a co-op just organized itself into a political sub-division of the State of Texas....

For those that do not get what this means:

o)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for
any person to transfer or possess a machinegun.
(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to--
(A) a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority
of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a
State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(B) any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun
that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes
effect.

Posted: 4/28/2008 12:17:21 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I think it is more common than most people know.

Here is one for you. I live in rural Texas and the local water supplier which was a co-op just organized itself into a political sub-division of the State of Texas....

For those that do not get what this means:

o)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for
any person to transfer or possess a machinegun.
(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to--
(A) a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority
of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a
State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(B) any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun
that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes
effect.

Just so they could own "cheap" legal MG's?

ETA - what is to stop me from politically subdividing my property into Shrikefan(town, ville, burg, etc.)?

Posted: 4/28/2008 4:41:29 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
A guy on another forum posted this passage on a way to get 'around' the annoying high prices of NFA ownership. Let me hear some opinions....

You could also try, if your buddy buddy with the sheriff, to deputize you and allow you to purchase the weapon. Out here that isn't that far fetched and still is considered legal unless you lose the "badge". I found this out from a guy who didn't want to pay like 15K plus for an MP5 and found out if he did it that way it would have been just something like 2K. Can't verify, but just like certain body armor, if you can get an leo or mil to sign off on it, you can buy it.

This would be a very dipshittish thing to do on an LE agencies part. I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't happened before, though.

Posted: 4/28/2008 4:52:21 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A guy on another forum posted this passage on a way to get 'around' the annoying high prices of NFA ownership. Let me hear some opinions....

You could also try, if your buddy buddy with the sheriff, to deputize you and allow you to purchase the weapon. Out here that isn't that far fetched and still is considered legal unless you lose the "badge". I found this out from a guy who didn't want to pay like 15K plus for an MP5 and found out if he did it that way it would have been just something like 2K. Can't verify, but just like certain body armor, if you can get an leo or mil to sign off on it, you can buy it.

This would be a very dipshittish thing to do on an LE agencies part. I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't happened before, though.

I am in awe of your command of the English language.

The truth can be stranger than fiction.

Wouldn't the NFA weapon still have to be registered to the dept.?

Posted: 4/28/2008 6:19:58 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Wouldn't the NFA weapon still have to be registered to the dept.?

It would be paid for by the dept.
It would always be owned by the dept.
It would always be a liability to the dept.
While he's at it, ask for a patrol car!

Posted: 4/28/2008 7:00:47 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A guy on another forum posted this passage on a way to get 'around' the annoying high prices of NFA ownership. Let me hear some opinions....

You could also try, if your buddy buddy with the sheriff, to deputize you and allow you to purchase the weapon. Out here that isn't that far fetched and still is considered legal unless you lose the "badge". I found this out from a guy who didn't want to pay like 15K plus for an MP5 and found out if he did it that way it would have been just something like 2K. Can't verify, but just like certain body armor, if you can get an leo or mil to sign off on it, you can buy it.

This would be a very dipshittish thing to do on an LE agencies part. I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't happened before, though.

Here ya go.

Gun offenses send three law enforcers to prison

Thursday, April 10, 2008
THE SAGINAW NEWS

MIDLAND -- A man who helped send people to prison is headed to prison himself. Former Midland County Assistant Prosecutor Frederick A. MacKinnon will spend five years in a federal lockup for abusing the authority of his office to obtain seven machine guns and nine silencers for personal use. MacKinnon was Ogemaw County prosecutor when the offenses occurred.

A jury in August convicted MacKinnon and Maxwell L. Garnett, 56, former Rose City police chief, of 51 charges. The jury found a third defendant, Gary J. Theunick, 59, a former Ogemaw County chief assistant prosecutor and Saginaw police officer, guilty of 26 charges. Theunick and Garnett are both of Rose City.

All of the counts involve unlawful possession of machine guns and silencers, including four .22-caliber silencers, a .223-caliber machine gun, a .45-caliber submachine gun and a 9 mm submachine gun.

U.S. District Judge Robert H. Cleland sentenced Mac-Kinnon, 54, of Hale on Tuesday. Cleland earlier sentenced Garnett to 71 months in prison and Theunick to 63 months.

The men started buying the guns in 1999. Federal law restricts the possession of machine guns. Authorities indicted them in 2005.

Former Midland Prosecutor Norman Donker hired MacKinnon in April 2001. Current Prosecutor Michael Carpenter took office on Jan. 1, 2005, and fired Mac-Kinnon on Jan. 19, 2005, immediately after reviewing the criminal allegations against MacKinnon. Theunick retired from the Saginaw Police Department in 1994 after 20 years as a patrol officer.

Posted: 4/28/2008 8:17:43 AM EDT

[#9]

i hate to say it, but it really IS all about who you know and how much money you have.

if you know the right people, and they want to help you out, i'd be shocked if you *couldn't* get new MG's and still be on the "right side" of the law.

do you think Colt re-made those old M16's because they are nice and wanted to do something good for gun owners, or do you think they did it because somebody knew somebody?

Posted: 4/28/2008 8:24:58 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

i hate to say it, but it really IS all about who you know and how much money you have.

if you know the right people, and they want to help you out, i'd be shocked if you *couldn't* get new MG's and still be on the "right side" of the law.

do you think Colt re-made those old M16's because they are nice and wanted to do something good for gun owners, or do you think they did it because somebody knew somebody?

Somebody knew somebody that could get them exclusive contracts.

They would never....

Posted: 4/29/2008 5:01:43 AM EDT

[#11]

Sounds an awful lot like a remake of the Fleming case ...

Posted: 4/29/2008 6:34:46 AM EDT

[#12]

Something like that may work if you live in a REALLY small town. If there are 100 residents, and you have been friends with the sheriff since 3rd grade, why not?

Posted: 5/1/2008 10:21:54 AM EDT

[#13]

It can not be done legally. Because the gun has to be owned by the Dept and can not be transfered to the individual

Posted: 5/1/2008 12:24:06 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
It can not be done legally. Because the gun has to be owned by the Dept and can not be transfered to the individual

I think the OP realized this. They were just wondering if they could be "deputized"

and use the "department's" MG's.

Posted: 5/1/2008 4:58:15 PM EDT

[#15]

I did, in fact, realize that this was illegal as hell. I ripped the guy pretty good on another forum and basically called him a fool and an idiot for posting such lunacy. The funny part was that other posters actually agreed with him! I wanted to share and post the idiocy here so that I could hear some other opinions on why this would be stupid. Maybe some that I hadn't thought of before...

Posted: 5/2/2008 9:13:03 AM EDT

[#16]

http://www.saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=246

ALBANY MACHINE GUN SCANDAL: BLOOMBERG LOOKING IN WRONG PLACE, SAYS SAF
For Immediate Release: 10/10/2007

BELLEVUE, WA – The renewed scandal involving alleged missing machine guns that had been secretly and illicitly purchased by officers with the Albany, NY Police Department several years ago suggests that if New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg wants to go after illegal guns, he need only drive up the Hudson River with his rogue investigators and turn them loose, the Second Amendment Foundation said today.

The Albany Times Union reported this week that dozens of automatic weapons, obtained apparently without approval by police officers in 1993 and 1994 – during the first Clinton Administration – were originally thought to have been rounded up and destroyed a few years ago. But now, the newspaper said, some of these guns are apparently still missing. One of the guns was reportedly found at a Texas gun store. Another of the guns had been obtained by an assistant district attorney, who ultimately turned it in about four years ago. It was not explained why he had the gun in the first place, but he certainly should have known better, SAF said.

“While Mayor Bloomberg has been bullying gun shops in other states for alleged illegal gun trafficking, he might want to send his vigilante private investigators to harass the Keystone Kops of the Albany Police Department,” said SAF founder Alan Gottlieb. “And instead of suing gun dealers for firearms that show up in New York City crimes, maybe he ought to apologize to the citizens of Texas for the fact that an illicit Albany machine gun showed up in their state.

“Bloomberg and people like him repeatedly argue that one type of firearm or another should be restricted to the police and military,” he continued. “This case, and similar ones in Oregon and Michigan where police officers were charged with federal firearms violations, demonstrates just how ridiculous that argument is. We’re surprised that none of the officers in the Albany scandal were prosecuted.

“Perhaps the worst part about this scandal is that it is a black mark against all the good, decent police officers out there who wouldn’t dream of being mixed up in something like this,” Gottlieb observed. “Millions of law-abiding American citizens, including thousands who currently own fully-automatic firearms, have never been involved in anything remotely similar to this fiasco, yet Mike Bloomberg wants to strip them of their gun rights.

“Contrary to what the Bloomberg Bunch says, maybe these guns should be restricted to anybody but the police,” Gottlieb concluded.

The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nations oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 600,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control. SAF has previously funded successful firearms-related suits against the cities of Los Angeles; New Haven, CT; and San Francisco on behalf of American gun owners, a lawsuit against the cities suing gun makers and an amicus brief and fund for the Emerson case holding the Second Amendment as an individual right.

-END-

And another article (with lots of details)
Albany Cops and Key Money Machine Guns

Posted: 5/2/2008 5:04:36 PM EDT

[#17]

Fleming Case

Check out section 6 quoted below.

Counts three and eight of the indictment involve the "straw" transfer of two Heckler and Koch MP5 SD machineguns and two silencers through the Creek County District Attorney's Office. Count three involved a conspiracy by Mr. Fleming and others to submit false and fraudulent BATF Form 5s in an attempt to avoid paying the transfer taxes. On paper, the firearms were transferred first to the Office of the District Attorney for Creek County, Oklahoma, and then to Mr. Scribner and Clayton Badger, an attorney in Drumright, Oklahoma. In reality, the firearms were delivered directly from Mr. Fleming to Mr. Badger and Mr. Scribner. No firearms were ever received or delivered by the Creek County District Attorney's Office.

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