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Posted: 5/7/2007 10:07:11 AM EDT
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I've read through some of these threads and there's a lot of crud in there. Can someone provide simple instructions? Something that tells you step by step what to do and what forms to get. I see pieces and parts of this and that, but nothing together. Something like: Living Trust 1) start living trust 2) get forms x, y, z 3) mail forms x, y, z along with a copy of xxxx to: 3232 asdfasdf asdfasdf, as 44444 Corporation 1) start corporation 2) get forms blah, blah, blah Individual blah blah blah |
What? That's not an answer! I'm not buying anything from a dealer. I'm going to build an SBR 9mm with a 7" barrel. What do you mean it's not that easy? Everything in life is easy, people make things sound difficult. Some people keep information to make themselves "elite". Information should be free. And it is true... Knowledge is power. Hardwarz |
 dude u cant just come in here and xpect everyone to walk u through everything without telling what u r doing and having xact questions....and also being nice helps tooo  ..... so now with that said  .. u r doing a sbr right?? r u doing a trust , corp, or by your self?? does your state allow sbr's??? will your cleo sign off if you r doing your self?? do u know how to do a trust?? jon.. 
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Truthfully, that was me being nice.  Maybe people are reading the wrong tone into it?I'm not expecting anyone to walk me through anything. I'm just looking for a step by step process that I can read. Something distilled without all the other cr@p put in. Something without the jokes, name calling and extra questions. Just the facts. No where have I found that. Heck, not even on the ATF website. I just can't beleive that someone hasn't documented the process. SOPs... why are there no SOPs for this process? I don't understand! I'm not trying to be a d*ck... I just usually come across that way. Hardwarz |
Once again... a post that is not helpful at all. Hardwarz |
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I was seriously thinking about doing it, but then again getting a mod to make it a sticky would be a different story, so I decided not to do it. Anyway I did post samples of the BATFE forms here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199942&page=31 |
There is no simple, step-by-step outline because it is not a simple process. Instead, there are a ton of variables. Hint: The process was set up back when BATFE was a branch of the Internal Revenue Service. So you are asking the equivalent of: Hello, I need to file my state and federal income taxes. Please give me a step-by-step list for filing as an individual and as a corporation, and also list the names of each form I will need, for each state. In the last five years, BATFE has gone through three mailing addresses, added one supplementary form (but only for some applications), and come out with up to four revisions of some forms. The BATFE staff personnel has changed, the way to fill out the forms has changed, the response time has changed. State regulations and laws, and how they impact NFA applications and ownership, have changed as well. Thus the reason we don't have a tacked "how-to" is because it is constantly changing; keeping it accurate and up-to-date would be a full-time job. And there is nothing worse than posting outdated info. So instead, we give individual answers. Post what you want to do, and we'll tell you how. That's the best way to get accurate info. |
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You are not being a dick, it's easy but you are a beginner, it is well worth your time to get profesional help from a local Ohio dealer even if you feel the need to build yourself rather then buy something. Toss the dealer $100 for the help and your papers will go through correctly the first time. Or you could go with the free internet advice and get exactly the service quality you paid for. Once you have gone through it, you will understand the flow of things and are then ready to proceed on your own. |
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There is a ton of info on various threads here. You DO have to spend some time to go through them. I think the reason you are sort of hitting a wall is because there are quite a few of us that put in LOTS of time here and spend even more time researching the things we want to know. It's sometimes frustrating to see several new threads a week asking what we have talked about over and over and over. If it's worth it to you to become a stamp collector, spend some time reading. That being said... Trust - quicken willmaker, I heard it was like $40-$50 Corp or LLC - google something about setting one up. There are tons of sites including www.intuit.com - could cost you $300-$500 depending on your state. Or you could research your state regs and set it up on your own a little cheaper. Or, you could try to get a CLEO signoff and not worry about the hastle of setting up a new entity. |
haha... good call. Well, i'm going through with it... I'll gather everything I can and document everything that I do and maybe, one day, I can post the whole thing, hopefully it'll be a sticky & locked. lol Hardwarz |
I purchased and downloaded Socrates Living Trust Kit. Files come in a self extracting file. The files within are Microsoft Word documents. Socrates Living Trust Kit forms and guide. $29.99 Kit from office store or download www.socrates.com/personal-legal-forms/wills-trusts-and-estates/Living-Trust-Kit.aspx Hardwarz |
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Before I asked any questions I read this entire thread...all 28 pages at the time. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199942 Then this one: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=22&t=199905 All the info is there, learned a lot in the process and it took me a couple days to get through it all. It seems like a waste time but it is worth it. In years past, you could never get this kind of info unless you personally knew somebody who had been there and done it. Not such an easy thing for most of us. |
Should have spent the money and just got Willmaker. Because when you come back asking how do you do XX in Socrates Trust Kit nobody is going to be able to help, or the answer will be slow in coming. Questions on Willmaker are asked and answered on this board daily. 1) Form Trust and have it notorized 2) Purchase lower to SBR 3) Send that lower to Orion to be engraved 4) Fill out From 1 and mail it to the ATF NFA Branch in WV in duplicate with a check, a copy of your certification of trust and a certificate of compliance. 5) Wait |
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Gaspipes is right. I spent 2 days reading the two FAQ's threads...every bit of them. Bookmarked pages as I went along so I could come back to them for review. All the info is there. I just sent off my paperwork for my first SBR. All the info is here...You just have to spend some time looking for it. I assure you it's there. Once I got EVERYTHING together and was ready to mail it off, I posted up and said, "This is what I've done (IN DETAIL), this is what I have and I'm ready to mail it in. Am I missing anything at all?" I ended up having everything exactly as I needed it. It's not all that hard, but you will spend some time reading quite a bit before you get it all straight if this is your first time. Speaking of...my stamp should be here shortly... |
This is exactly what I did. Although I spent alot more than 2 days looking at the FAQ. If you don't spend the time and do just what others suggest, you won't truly know the process. You could potentially waste alot of time and get in a position of inadvertantly doing something illegal. You really owe it to yourself to fully understand the process and legal ramifications. All the info is out there, you just need to study and do research for your particular state and community. |
1) Starting the trust. 2) Have the lower. Assign it to the trust? 3) Will send it to Orion for the engraving. 4)Form 1 will be the Manufacture of a weapon since I'm making it. Once I get the stamp, I will purchase the 7.5" barrel. I will not have any barrel before the stamp. Hardwarz |
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Here's what I have so far. For: Self manufacture of an SBR in Akron, Ohio, County of Summit. 1) Start a Revocable Living Trust a) I included with each item transferred to the Trust, a Bill of Sale. b) Assignment of Property to Trust – This is the list that has all the items that you’ve transferred to it. c) Schedule of Beneficiaries – I included serial numbers to the NFA weapons. d) Schedule of Assets – I modified this document so that MFG, Model and type of weapon are included. (i.e. Ruger 10/22 rifle SN: xxxxxx; HK UPS .40S&W pistol SN: xxxxxx; etc.) I assigned the AR lower that I already own and am going to convert to a SBR via Form 1 in the Schedule of Assets. e) Had trust notarized at my bank. 2) Went to ATF website and requested a) Form 1 (F5320.1) b) Certification of Citizenship (F5330.20) 3) What I'm going to be sending to the ATF a) Full copy of the Trust draft b) Form 1 (F5320.1) c) Certification of Citizenship (F5330.20) d) $200.00 check Does this sound right so far? Hardwarz |
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Yes that all looks correct. You can send a copy of the enitre declaration of trust(trust draft) if you want to, but the best thing to send is a COPY of the Certification of Trust. This is a document that states the trust exist, you are the trustee etc. But does not give private details about the trust that the ATF doesn't need to know and probably doesn't care to know. Things like who are the beneficiaries and what property is held in trust. It's a legal notorized document just like the declaration of trust. Edit: You need to send TWO Form 1's. You can also download the Form 1 from here test.titleii.com/form1.html As well as the 5330.20 www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f533020.pdf That form 1 is different. It used to be a .pdf I'm going to try it out now and see what it comes out like. Edit again: That form linked to above is great. However it is the same "bad" form that is linked on the ATF website in which the ATF agent approval signature is on the back of the form. I would not use it until they fix it. If you want a .pdf of a correct form I can e-mail you one. Send me an IM with a good e-mail addy and I will send it to you. |
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