Armory Sponsor
Posted: 12/20/2006 8:14:52 PM EDT
|
so lets say if u have a weapon that is registered as an SBR, machine gun and has a silencer, int his case we will pretend the islencer is perm attachted just to say it goes where the guns goes. if you buy or sell this whole thing do you have to fill out and pay for 3 transfers or just one for the weapon and one for the silencer (as it in reality isn't permanitly attached) |
|
If I understand you correctly. Since it's a MG, you don't have to have a stamp for a SBR. A registered receiver is the Grand Daddy of NFA. Not sure how that would play out with RRL,RDIAS though. The silencer would also have to have a stamp since it is serialized and had to be built on a F1. So 2 stamps if I understand your question correctly. |
Please, do not take my opinion as fact, check with your friends at the BATFE (where has NFA-Dan been lately? Someone want to start a conspiracy thread?) From what my little NFA education has found, your MG trumps your SBR so you are good to go that way. Your silencer would be another stamp. Don't listen to me though, I"m just guessing. |
An SBR, machine gun and suppressor would each require their own $200 tax-paid transfer. If you buy a sear gun MP5SD, for example, then you might pay $200 for the machine gun (HK sear), $200 for the SBR (MP5), and another $200 for the suppressor. |
Exactly. |
|
wish dan would show up, we just had two votes saying that the weapon system would only have to be trasfered in owndership as a MG + another for the silencer another two votes saying that it would have to have 3 forms on one weapon. not sure what the outcome is, im hopeing i could register a MG and right int he specs as an SBR witout an extra transfer, dont knwo if that possible. whole thing boils down to id like to have a gun built and ready in my fathers ownership, until i turn 21 and tranfer it, if i dont get approved which i see no reason why. it could just be put into a family trust. that or i'll have to wait 2 more years and do it all myself praying there isn't another AWB |
1. A Machinegun cannot be a SBR. There is no barrel length restriction on MG's. The MG would require one $200 stamp. 2. The Suppressor is separate (no matter if it is permenantly affixed or not). It would require a separate $200 stamp. The only exception I could see is if you are talking about a SBR that has been registered THEN had a RDIAS or RLL installed. In that case both the SBR receiver and the RDIAS/RLL would require separate transfers.
Huh? I was under the impression that even if the NFA item was owned by a police department if it was a transferrable item and transfered to a civilian it would require the $200 tax. I understand that transfers to and between departments are tax exempt. |
Here's the deal: A registered-receiver machine gun can have any length barrel on it with no need to also register it as an SBR. A registered conversion device, like an HK sear pack or an AR15 RDIAS or RLL, must be used with a host. The host gun can legally have any length barrel on it with no need to register it as an SBR, as long as the registered conversion device remains installed in the host gun. When you remove the registered device, you also must remove any other NFA qualifiers such as a sub-16" barrel. With me so far? Now, owners of AR RDIAS and RLLs do not need to SBR their host guns because they just take off the sub-16" upper whenever they remove the registered conversion device. Owners of HK host guns can't do that -- the barrel is permanently mounted to the receiver. It's no problem if they only own one host HK: They just store the registered sear pack on the gun, and the two components -- sear pack and host gun -- are "married." But if they want to own multiple hosts for a single HK sear pack, they must "divorce" the sear from its host and So if you buy a sear installed in a host gun, and the previous owner only had that one host, you are buying a "married" package that only requires one stamp (for the MG conversion device). But if you are buying a sear plus a host gun, and the host gun was previously used as one of many, it has already been registered as an SBR, and you must pay two transfer taxes -- one for the MG (sear pack) and another for the sub-16"-barreled host gun. Regarding suppressors: Decades ago, BATF allowed single registration of MGs and SBRs which had a suppressor permanently mounted. They no longer accept such registrations -- haven't since the early 1980s. Today, if you buy an MP5SD that is "married" to its registered sear pack, you must pay two transfer taxes. If you buy an MP5SD that consists of a suppressor plus a registered sear pack and a sub-16" host gun, and the sear and host are not married, you must pay three transfer taxes. HTH. 
|
Huh? I was under the impression that even if the NFA item was owned by a police department if it was a transferrable item and transfered to a civilian it would require the $200 tax. I understand that transfers to and between departments are tax exempt. You were under a mistaken impression, now you know how it works. Now you know why Bill Flemming went to jail for tax evasion because he transfered guns throgh a friendly police dept. to help his customers avoid paying the transfer tax. All transfers to and from government agencies are tax exempt. |
Actually, one should first register each of the host guns as SBRs, and then, and only then, "divorce" the sear from the host. Not the other way around as tony_k described above, otherwise you would be in possession of an unregistered SBR.
Exactly as I had already described in my previous example above. |
I was trying to explain, in simple terms, how a single firearm could require either one or two stamps. My apologies if the "then" left my post open for misinterpretation. But as long as we are splitting hairs, picking nits and arm-wrestling over the results, IMHO in a BATFE "divorce proceeding" you should do neither one first -- instead, you should do the divorce and the host-gun SBR registration simultaneously in a single SBR Form 1 application package (or for a manufacturer, on a Form 2 filing). That's because in a sear marriage both the sear and the host are listed by serial number on the MG registration paperwork, and under BATFE rules a single firearm cannot be registered twice (as both a married MG and an SBR). However, you absolutely can legally do the divorce first and then SBR the ex-spouse host, as long as you do not remove the sear pack from the divorced host until after the SBR registration is approved. A registered machine gun conversion device may legally be installed in a host firearm of any configuration: You do not run into legal issues until you remove the conversion device, leaving the host as a Title 1 firearm in (unregistered) Title II configuration. The additional hosts can be registered as SBRs at any time, although of course they must not be put into SBR configuration until you have an approved Form 1 in hand, except if you are an 07/02SOT, in which case you must first do the conversion and then notify BATF of the completed with via a Form 2 filed within 24 hours of 80% completion. At least that is my understanding. However, I am still learning about this BATF thing, so as always YMMV. 
|
Armory Sponsor