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Posted: 2/18/2006 6:01:50 PM EDT
I'm sure this has been asked a number of times, but in looking over the site, and searching threads for the last hour+, I can't find it.

I want to SBR my Bobcat BW5-FS, by knocking the fake suppressor off.

What is the specific regulation that requires me to engrave my name and location on the firearm?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 7:08:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 2:22:56 PM EDT
Thanky.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:23:52 PM EDT
Does anyone out there have some pics they would like to share as examples?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:25:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 11:28:35 AM EDT by ARKAR]
Guys, the requirement to stamp the info is only applicable if the firearm in question is assembled from a "virgin" receiver-is this correct? If said firearm is purchased already assembled, such as a Bobcat BW5, and the rifle is only being registered and therefore reclassified as an SBR, this wouldn't be required, would it? This requirement is for manufacturers of NEW firearms, right? ARKAR
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:03:51 PM EDT
Nope... pretty sure it is required even if making an existing Title I weapon into a SBR
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:38:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ-75Jeff:
Nope... pretty sure it is required even if making an existing Title I weapon into a SBR



Correct.

A complete firearm was manufactured by the company stamped on it. If you register it as an SBR (Title 2 firearm), you are the manufacturer of the SBR regardless of who made it as a Title 1 firearm. Therefore, your info needs to be added.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:42:29 PM EDT
OK, thanks guys! ARKAR
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:58:57 AM EDT
Okay, so I am clear on this...what about a gun that you got transfered to you that was already a SBR? Do you have to remark it?
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:41:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 7:45:04 AM EDT by drfcolt]

Originally Posted By HMC:
Okay, so I am clear on this...what about a gun that you got transfered to you that was already a SBR? Do you have to remark it?



No, it will be transferred to you on a Form 4 since it is already an existing NFA weapon (SBR).

Who ever did the original "making" will have marked it after receiving their approved Form 1 back - probably the person/dealer selling it to you, but not necessarily since they may have purchased it from the original maker on a Form 3 (for a dealer) or Form 4 (for an individual or corporation).
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:25:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drfcolt:

Originally Posted By HMC:
Okay, so I am clear on this...what about a gun that you got transfered to you that was already a SBR? Do you have to remark it? hr


No, it will be transferred to you on a Form 4 since it is already an existing NFA weapon (SBR).

Who ever did the original "making" will have marked it after receiving their approved Form 1 back - probably the person/dealer selling it to you, but not necessarily since they may have purchased it from the original maker on a Form 3 (for a dealer) or Form 4 (for an individual or corporation).



Thanks. Man, some of this stuff is confusing.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 12:31:58 PM EDT
OK, next dumb question.

(Not trying to be argumentative, but want to understand.)

The posted link above classifies 3 different people.

Manufacturer
Importer
Maker
­
The only class I could fall under is maker, as I'm not manufacturing for a business or money, and I'm not importing.

As a maker, I'm required to mark the following information:

Serial number
Model
Caliber/Gauge
My name
My city/state

There is no exemption or exception for serial numbers, models and calibers that have a pre-existing engraving or stamping.

As such, why do you all feel that I'm not (or we're not) required to mark such information?

This is where I'm coming from:

I've seen a number of examples of approved SBR weapons, and I've seen the forms, where the owner has not had such engraved.

I personally don't want my stuff that I plan on SBR'ing marred with any kind of additional markings, and am trying to make more sense of this whole requirement.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:17:43 PM EDT
Check this out guys!:SBR Info. ARKAR
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:22:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARKAR:
Check this out guys!:SBR Info. ARKAR


Ok guys...this looks ligit to me....I'm thinking that I don't need the engraving for sure now. What say you all????
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:37:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GA-Dawg:

Originally Posted By ARKAR:
Check this out guys!:SBR Info. ARKAR


Ok guys...this looks ligit to me....I'm thinking that I don't need the engraving for sure now. What say you all????



I agree.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:05:33 AM EDT
The BATF always writes very vague, confusing letters. It sounds like if you buy a complete firearm that no SBR markings are needed, but if you buy a stripped AR-15 lower and build it into a complete rifle it needs to be engraved because it's not a factory-assembled rifle.

Not to mention that you'll still get arguments from people even when you have a BATF letter. I wrote a letter after the AW sunset regarding adding a telestock and mag extension to a Benelli M1014 shotgun. The BATF reply was that it is illegal since the shotgun is imported and subject to 922(r). People are still saying that the BATF doesn't know what they are talking about and are adding these items to their Benelli shotguns anyway. You can see examples of it quite frequently here on Arfcom.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 12:20:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
The BATF always writes very vague, confusing letters. It sounds like if you buy a complete firearm that no SBR markings are needed, but if you buy a stripped AR-15 lower and build it into a complete rifle it needs to be engraved because it's not a factory-assembled rifle.



That's my take on it - but like anybody does the markings on a rifle built-up from a stripped receiver.




Not to mention that you'll still get arguments from people even when you have a BATF letter. I wrote a letter after the AW sunset regarding adding a telestock and mag extension to a Benelli M1014 shotgun. The BATF reply was that it is illegal since the shotgun is imported and subject to 922(r). People are still saying that the BATF doesn't know what they are talking about and are adding these items to their Benelli shotguns anyway. You can see examples of it quite frequently here on Arfcom.


I've always found the whole 922(r) bit to be rather unambiguous.

If you're modifying a rifle or shotgun into a form that would cause it to be unimportable, without replacing the requisite number of parts with their US-made counterparts, then you're violating 922(r).

On the other hand, if the ATF has allowed the M1014 for import with a telestock and a mag extension, then modifiying your shotgun to the same config wouldn't be illegal.

It's just like the Saiga's, requiring US-made parts to be converted back to AK-look.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:13:59 PM EDT
If you really want to be confused, click on the AR15 forum and go to the M16 full auto forum. There's a pretty exstensive thread about this right now. I periodically drop by and add fuel to the fire.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 8:01:43 PM EDT
"Maker" and "Manufacturer" are interchangeable according to the "Definition of Terms." The "Manufacturer/Maker" of the Title I host gun obviously already has their info stamped on it. If you "Make" or "Manufacturer" an NFA firearm, which you are doing by definition of a Form 1, you need to include your info on the receiver as well. It does not matter how the gun started life, complete gun or receiver or 80% non-gun, with the Form 1 all things are made equal as a new NFA, Title 2 firearm is being manufactured or made and the Maker's info in required. The law and regs are really very clear here.

A letter from NFA Branch is valid ONLY for the person it is addressed to, it does not give permission or approval to anyone else. The gentleman who received an NFA Branch approval letter telling him he did not have to include his info on the HK94 SBR or SP89 is protected in not including his info on the newly created SBRs, all others are not. Letters, phone calls, e-mails messages can be mistaken and taken oout of context. Approval letters from NFA Branch have no legal requirement to be legally correct, though the holder of such a letter has a bonafide defense against prosecution for acting according to the letter's approval. This legal protection does not extend to others. The Law however cannot be taken out-of-context and the law trumps an approval letter every single time. If you act contrary to the law and you rely on someone else's approval letter, that letter will not be admissible in court in your defense. That's how it works.

Just engrave your info. While it might seem like a small thing, if you have not followed the regs, your guns can be taken from you permanently as contraband. Prosecution of not, it's just not worth it.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 8:09:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 8:10:16 PM EDT by Trainman]

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
"Maker" and "Manufacturer" are interchangeable according to the "Definition of Terms." The "Manufacturer/Maker" of the Title I host gun obviously already has their info stamped on it. If you "Make" or "Manufacturer" an NFA firearm, which you are doing by definition of a Form 1, you need to include your info on the receiver as well. It does not matter how the gun started life, complete gun or receiver or 80% non-gun, with the Form 1 all things are made equal as a new NFA, Title 2 firearm is being manufactured or made and the Maker's info in required. The law and regs are really very clear here.

A letter from NFA Branch is valid ONLY for the person it is addressed to, it does not give permission or approval to anyone else. The gentleman who received an NFA Branch approval letter telling him he did not have to include his info on the HK94 SBR or SP89 is protected in not including his info on the newly created SBRs, all others are not. Letters, phone calls, e-mails messages can be mistaken and taken oout of context. Approval letters from NFA Branch have no legal requirement to be legally correct, though the holder of such a letter has a bonafide defense against prosecution for acting according to the letter's approval. This legal protection does not extend to others. The Law however cannot be taken out-of-context and the law trumps an approval letter every single time. If you act contrary to the law and you rely on someone else's approval letter, that letter will not be admissible in court in your defense. That's how it works.

Just engrave your info. While it might seem like a small thing, if you have not followed the regs, your guns can be taken from you permanently as contraband. Prosecution of not, it's just not worth it.



Holy crap, you articulated that well.

I don't know if you added that to the other threads about this, but you should.
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