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Posted: 12/1/2005 9:35:21 PM EDT
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Greetings all. I fully admit I'm an NFA newbie loaded with tons of questions. I was hoping some of the knowledgeable folks that inhabit these forums would be willing to help me. Here goes. Currently I'm 20. Now, I'm aware you have to be 21 to own any NFA weapons/devices. However, I will be turning 21 in April, so I thought I mine as well educate myself as much as possible before my birthday rolls around so I can be ready to start the long process of the background check and what not. Being a poor college student, I'm no so much eyeballing machine guns as I am an SBR or suppressor, or a combination or both. Now, here's the gist of what I know about the NFA so far (assuming what I know is right, of course): You must be 21 to be eligible for any NFA items. You must pay a transfer $200 tax for an NFA item ($5 for an AOW). You must live in an NFA-friendly state (I live in ME and have checked, it is NFA-friendly for all items). Post-Sample machine guns are a no-no for civilians and only pre-86 machine guns can be owned by a civilian. The background check is quite a long one. You fill out a number of forms, get your fingerprints taken, have a CLEO sign a piece of paper, and submit it to the NFA Branch for approval. Now, here's where my questions start. What exactly is the CLEO sign-off all about. Is it sort of a "I know this person and he's a good citizen and won't misuse this item" signature? Or is it more of a "I accept no liability for whatever it is this person may do with this item". As far as transfer goes, let's say I want to buy a suppressor a pistol I've recently purchased. I fill out all the paperwork and send it away to the NFA Branch. I get approved and get my tax stamp. What happens next, does the manufactor of the suppressor send the item directly to me, or does it go to a special NFA dealer, or a regular dealer for transfer. In relation to question number one. Say the suppressor I want is from out of state. Do I need to pay an additional transfer tax to have it transfered from out-of-state to a dealer in my state (assuming I have to go through a local dealer that is), and then another $200 tax to have it go from my local dealer to me? I've heard of Form 1s, Form 3s, and Form 4s. What is the difference between all of these and how do they apply to my desire for an SBR or suppressor? That's all my questions for now. Hopefully nothing I've written is ambiguous or unclear. Thanks all! |
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Roboman, I too am a "young guy" and have been wanting to buy Class III items for many years, and this year I finally started at the age of 24. I only own 2 NFA items now, so I too am a NFA newbie, but here is what I know. Form 1 is the form that you file when you want to turn the rifle, shotgun, or even handgun you currently own into a SBR. Form 3 is the form you use when you want to tranfer a NFA item out of state. If sell my NFA items or buy a NFA item out of state the gun, or can will have to be on a Form 3. Then once in state the NFA item will have to be transfered to Form 4. Form 4 is the form that transfered the NFA item to you, in your state. If you want to buy a SBR or suppressor that is in your state of Maine then you will fill out and submit a Form 4. Then you want to sell and your buyer lives in another state you will have to file a Form 3.  The CLEO signature is nothing more then a quick back ground check. If you are allowed to own a handgun in the USA, then you can buy a NFA item. The down side to the CLEO signature is that it gives a lot of power to the CLEO, and he/she can deny your paper work for the sole reason that they do not like NFA items in their county. This is why people go the Corp. route to go around the CLEO, and finger print cards. So here is how I my NFA transfer process worked. 1. Went to Class III dealer to purchase supperssor. They did not have the one I wanted in stock so they had to order it. I paid them $200 to order the suppressor from AAC in GA. 2. A few days later the C3 dealer sent my paper work to my house with a the Form 4 filled out. 3. Had passport photos taken. 4. Went to the CLEO to sign my paper work. ( He signed it in under 5 minutes) And had my finger prints taken. 5. When my C3 dealer called and said that the "can" was there I submitted my Form 4 and $200 check. 6. Wait....for two months. 7. Dealer calls and the form 4 is back with the Tax stamp and I can pick up the suppressor. 8. Went to the dealer, and paid for the rest of the suppressor. 9. Go to the range...and have fun  If I were you, I would hold off from buying a NFA item until you are 21, because you have to go through a dealer, CLEO and BATF. It will be a lot less trouble to do this when you are legal age. NFA items are a lot of fun, I wish I would have bought a transferable machinegun when I was 21 I would have saved a lot of money. But, I too was a cash strapped college kid. |
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So let's say I decide I want an SBR'd AR-15. There'd be 2 ways of going about this, right? One way would be to file a Form 1 with the $200 and all the background checks, and assuming it came back approved, I could put an upper on an AR-15 with the proper serial number engraving with a barrel shorter than the usual 16" requirement? Or I could find an existing approved SBR and have it transferred to me via Form 4 (for in-state as you said). |
Correct. To go into a little more detail on a couple of UZI4you's answers to your above questions: A Form 3 is for a tax-free dealer-to-dealer or a manufacturer-to-dealer transfer. If you buy an NFA item from an out-of-state individual, it will transfer to your Class 3 dealer on a Form 4 with a $200 tax due. The dealer will then transfer it to you on a Form 4 with another $200 tax due. If the out-of-state NFA item is registered to a dealer, it will transfer on a tax-free Form 3 to your in-state Class 3 dealer, then be transferred to you on a Form 4. As for the CLEO signature, all it certifies is that the item that you are purchasing is legal in your area. It has nothing to do with the CLEO certifying that you passed a background check or anything. It is the FBI's responsibility to do the background check -- hence the fingerprint cards. |
Thank you very much. The tax-free information about dealer-to-dealer I was completely unaware of, that definitely helps. Are dealer-to-dealer Form 3's processed a lot faster than Form 4s? I've heard Form 4 approvals can take as long as a year! 
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Form 3's generally are processed about twice as fast. As for Form 4 approvals, it's really the luck of the draw. My fastest was 56 days, while my slowest was 146 days. The NFA branch just moved from D.C. to West Virginia and rumor has it that the new examiners are a lot faster. Hopefully they will erase the bad memories created by their predecessors. |
Sorry to pelt you with questions, but I have another one. When a dealer is advertising an NFA firearm (let's say an SBR with a suppressor) and says its already on Form 3, does this mean it can be shipped right to another dealer without any wait (except for the Form 4 for the buyer going through the dealer)? |
That is right. "already on Form 3" means the gun is at the dealers and is ready to be shipped to another dealer in another state as soon as some pays the asking price. There still will be the wait for the dealer to be approved in your state, but as M4Madness stated the Form 3 are faster than Form 4. |
I don't really have the $$ (and most likely won't have it by the time I turn 21 in a few months) for an SBR but I'm looking at a Walther P22 with an AAC Pilot suppressor. You see the handgun and suppressor sold as a bundle on a few gun auction sites for a reasonable amount of money so that has caught my eye as of late. What I'd really like is some kind of an MP5 clone with a suppressor. I can't afford the real deal for $16,000 so I'm looking at a quality build from a number of manufacturers, that will take me earning some $$ however. Now, when you file a Form 4, do you have to know the exact serial number and model you are planning on applying for, or is it a general application? For example, could I just send three Form 4's away, all for suppressors, and (assuming they're all approved) choose what make, model, and caliber suppressor I want at a later date? Or must you know explicitly when you're initially sending in the Form 4's? |
Nope you need the serial numbers on each form to record them with the BATF. That is why I had to wait so long for my AAC M42000 .223 can is because when my dealer ordered it AAC had to build them. And we could not start the paper work until AAC had a recored serial #. The P22 set up you can buy a nice 22 can first and the pistol second if you want to stretch your budget, but buying the gun and can together is a great way to go. My dealer, Lauer Custom Weaponry of Chippewa Falls WI sells suppressed P22s for a good price. Also you don't have to SBR a handgun if you are just adding a suppressor. You just have to pay the $200 tax for the suppressor. The SBR MP5 clone is a good choice. Get one with a three lug barrel so you can use a quick detach suppressor like a Gemtech. |
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