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Posted: 6/22/2013 2:40:40 PM EDT
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Today at the range my friend and fellow board member brought his chronograph. This gave me an unexpected chance to test my powder in my Pietta 1858 Sheriff's model. The results were as follows.
All shots fired used my cast .451 RB and CCI #10 caps. American Pioneer FFF - 40gr charge from my measure. - low 825 - high 890 most around 850ish fps 777 - 2F - 40gr measured charge - low 920, high 1001fps. Most around 975ish. The low one could have been a mis measure. Conclusion, 777 is much more sporty than Pioneer. I will also note that the 777 felt more energetic when firing it. Not enough to cause concern, but certainly more than the AP. I will add to this as time and availability permits. |
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I chorney'ed some M-L loads a few years ago. I was going to do more just a week ago & my chrony went T.U.. No I didn't shoot it, just failed to turn on, it's back to the company.
My last session was with a 26" Knight Disc 50 cal gun shooting 120 grns of Blackhorn 209 with a 250 grn Hornady SST saboted slug. This load gave a very low deviation 1950 average FPS. My buddy had been shooting American Pioneer powder, up to this point. I let him shoot a few through the chrony, that was the last time he shot that powder. He used the same 120 grn charge with a 250 grn bullet. His FPS vary WIDELY, over 350 fps variations, averaging less than 1500 fps, just pathetic. My new goal is to chrony my 45 cal Knight rifle. That's my new go to gun. |
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Hodgdon 777 is NOT designed to be used in equal measure to black powder.
Your use of a 40 gr. measure with 777 in a cap and ball revolver is excessive, according to the Hodgdon website. When using 777, Hodgdon notes that you must reduce the load by 15 percent. Thus, use a 34 gr. measure with 777 to equal a 40 gr. load (40 grs. minus 15% = 34 grs.) Using 777 in equal measures to black powder creates higher pressures. Hodgdon makes 777, has the ballistics lab to measure pressures, and employs the trained people to interpret data generated by testing. "Welllllll ... been using 40 grs. in MY gun and it hasn't blown up or been damaged yet," is a specious argument. The first can of Hodgdon 777 I bought, I too assumed that it could be used with equal measures of black powder. Wow. My Uberti-made 1858 Remington really recoiled and spit flame. Obviously, 40 grs. was a powerful load with a .457 ball. Then I read the label! Hodgon lists 35 grs. of 777 as MAXIMUM in the Ruger Old Army, the strongest cap and ball revolver ever made. And I was loading 40 gr. equivalent in my Uberti 1858. Hodgdon does NOT recommend 777 in any brass-framed revolver, by the way. Go to the Hodgdon website and read about the use of 777 in black powder firearms. It's an education. |
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Incidentally, here are my notes from chronographing an Uberti-made 1858 Remington .44, with 8" barrel:
March 6, 2005 Chronograph 7 feet from muzzle. Full Charge: 41.3 grains Goex FFFG black powder -- MAXIMUM LOAD .454 inch ball, cast in Lee mould of soft lead Remington No. 11 percussion cap CVA Grease Patch lubricant over ball (no room for greased felt wad under ball) Shot 1: 1,075.23 feet per second (fps) Shot 2: 1,070.66 fps Shot 3: 1,104.67 fps Shot 4: 1,139.29 fps Shot 5: 1,104.97 fps Shot 6: 1,138.64 fps Lowest velocity: 1,070.66 fps, shot No. 2 Highest velocity: 1,139.29 fps, shot No. 4 Average velocity: 1,105.57 fps Extreme spread between high and low velocities: 68.63 fps Standard deviation: 29.56 fps I have used .454 and .457" balls for decades now. The larger ball is only very slightly harder to seat, but the advantages are many: 1. It provides a better seal in the chamber. 2. The larger projectile creates a wider bearing band, for the rifling to grip. Years ago, on the internet, I postulated that this wider bearing band may -- MAY -- enhance accuracy. Others stated it as fact. I think I'd have to put a handgun scope on my Remington, and employ someone with younger eyes, to determine an accuracy difference. 3. The wider bearing band grips the chamber walls better, preventing projectile movement during recoil. This is particularly important with heavy loads. I much prefer to use a lubricated felt wad between the ball and powder, but the above load is maximum and there is no room for a felt wad. When there is room, I use 1/8" thick hard felt, made of 100% wool felt, purchased from Durofelt of Little Rock, Arkansas. I cut my own wads with a .45-caliber wad cutter purchased from Buffalo Arms, headquartered in Idaho. A .45 Long Colt or .45 ACP fired case, with sharpened mouth, will work in a pinch. Deprime the case, drill out the primer pocket, and push out the wads with a small bolt length of dowel. Wads are lubricated with Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant, a modern rendition I created based upon a 19th century lubricant recipe: 1 part canning paraffin 1 part mutton tallow (sold by Dixie Gun Works) 1/2 part beeswax (beware of synthetic beeswax, made from petroleum. Toilet seals haven't been made of real beeswax in about 12 years). All measurements are by weight, not volume. Measure the three ingredients, melt and stir well at low temperature. Allow to harden at room temperature. Search the internet for specifics on making wads lubricated with Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant. A hard, 100% wool felt wad, containing Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant, will keep the bore and nearby moving parts more free of fouling than anything else I've encountered in 40+ years of shooting cap and ball revolvers. I have used Pyrodex P, but not chronographed it. If I couldn't get black powder, I'd use it over anything else. Best accuracy has been with black powder, followed by Pyrodex P. I haven't found Hodgdon 777 nearly as accurate. |
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Quoted:
Hodgdon 777 is NOT designed to be used in equal measure to black powder. Your use of a 40 gr. measure with 777 in a cap and ball revolver is excessive, according to the Hodgdon website. When using 777, Hodgdon notes that you must reduce the load by 15 percent. Thus, use a 34 gr. measure with 777 to equal a 40 gr. load (40 grs. minus 15% = 34 grs.) Using 777 in equal measures to black powder creates higher pressures. Hodgdon makes 777, has the ballistics lab to measure pressures, and employs the trained people to interpret data generated by testing. "Welllllll ... been using 40 grs. in MY gun and it hasn't blown up or been damaged yet," is a specious argument. The first can of Hodgdon 777 I bought, I too assumed that it could be used with equal measures of black powder. Wow. My Uberti-made 1858 Remington really recoiled and spit flame. Obviously, 40 grs. was a powerful load with a .457 ball. Then I read the label! Hodgon lists 35 grs. of 777 as MAXIMUM in the Ruger Old Army, the strongest cap and ball revolver ever made. And I was loading 40 gr. equivalent in my Uberti 1858. Hodgdon does NOT recommend 777 in any brass-framed revolver, by the way. Go to the Hodgdon website and read about the use of 777 in black powder firearms. It's an education. You are mistaken. The website says that equal measure will produce greater velocity. I do not recommend that anyone follow my advice. As you stated, I do not have pressure measuring equipment. Further it is my uneducated belief that all powder companies err significantly on the light side. They know that someone is going to use their product in an original antique without the benefit of modern metallurgy or in a brass framed revolver. They must err towards conservatism in order to mitigate liability. I encourage no one to follow my methods or to use my loadings. I simply report what my results were. |
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