Armory Sponsor
Posted: 2/3/2015 9:40:16 PM EDT
|
Hey y'all,
I've recently gotten a peaked interest in collecting WWII era goods, specifically weapons. What does the hive say about the K98's? I would be interested to use it occasionally for hunting white tail, but mostly as a display item. Also while I'm here...From a collection stand point, what WWII era weapons/gear should I consider adding to the display? ~CBM |
|
They are fantastic guns, great history, strong actions.
The main couple you will see are "RC" k98s and bringback K98s. The Germans were anal about serializing everything so for the most part just about everything has a serial number or waffen on it somewhere. RC means Russian Captured. When the Russians captured the guns they basically took them apart, sorted them, peened (somewhat) the swastikas, and then assembled rifles back together from the bins to put the guns into storage for their usage later (possibly by the Russians against whoever). Typically the barrels will match the receivers and barrels will match but the rest tends to be a hodgepodge of parts from early to late and anywhere in between. They are still good shooters and "beaters" so to speak. Very functional, great way to enter the k98 arena. Bringbacks are what the name implies. Some are duffle cut under the front barrel band where the stock was cut to fit in boxes/bags and be brought home by GIs. Sometimes all the parts will match - including the bolt, barrel bands, receiver, stock, sights, etc. These command the big money - and certain years makers can send the price into the stratosphere. A more affordable version of the bringback type a bolt mis-match. Rumor is that the guns were grabbed up, all bolts removed and placed in a secure location until the GIs were ready to leave/ship the gun home. When they left or got ready to send it home, they would just grab a bolt from the bin and send it. So what you will see if a totally matching or mostly matching gun, and then the bolt and all it's parts will match itself but not the gun. Then there are the bastard stepchildren of the k98 world - totally refinished guns by companies like Mitchells Mausers. They take an unmatching gun, refinish it, re-serial number all the parts, refinish the stock, and then make it out to be an all matching gun. |
| Another option if you just want a K98 is one of the Yugos that were captured and remarked by them with the Yugo crest. There are some that still have some of the swastikas but most were scrubbed. The "Mod 98" marking is usually still present, though. Technically, it is a "German" Mauser, just scrubbed of its markings. They can usually be had pretty cheap. |
| The 7.92 Mauser is a very good round. Almost 30'06 ballistics. The actions are strong - fire a few rounds and have a smith look at the head-space. A good rifle will be good out to much longer range than your average shooter can hold. Should be good for any game you choose to try in North America. A good clean bore and good crown will yield great accuracy. There is a lot of aftermarket stocks and information to dress up the old war horse. |
|
I have a late war (44) BYF K98. Aside from the obvious attraction to the rifle, its the most ergonomic 'traditional' rifle I've ever held.
The LOP is perfect for me. I've actually considered putting together a modern clone as a target rifle. I'd love to find a German action to use. |
Makes me regret not getting one back when Mitchell's Mausers started selling them for relatively cheap. I never seem to take an interest in surplus guns until they dry up and the prices double or triple.  I sure wish I would have bought more of the Russian SKS's back in the day.
|
|
Love 98k, though they are not my main focus. If i see a deal i usually roll with them.
1940 Erma Duffle Cut Restore: 
1937 Mauser Produced for the Portuguese Contract - German Issued - Deactivated in Germany - reactivated in states. The bolt barrel are a mismatch because of this. Everything else is matching down to the locking screws. I paid 100$ less than a RC goes for. 
1937 S/142 - RC From Aim 
|
If you do plan to use it occasionally for deer hunting, then go with the Russian Capture route. In the conditions I hunt in, I wouldnt take one of my vet bring backs out into the field, but thats just me 
Keep in mind though, barrel / bore condition should be a huge concern if you plan to actually use it, and hit the target. I took a gamble on my first RC K98 when I was 21 or so, and the barrel was so bad it would sometimes miss a 2'X3' target completely at 100 yards. Other than that, make sure the action is nice and snug in the stock, and you use quality ammo. I can get 1" groups repeatedly with my RC K98 and some of my Vet bring back K98s with my own reloaded ammo. As for additional collectable items, for you I would say get a nice K98 bayonet and scabbard for starters, but if you move into the helmets / medals / flags etc area, there are a LOT of fake / reproduction items out there, and plenty of guys willing to rip you off. make an account on www.k98kforum.com and learn, and browse the trader section. |
| Thanks for all of the replies, folks!!! I'm totally fine with a RC version of the K98 honestly...I feel that it may have more history, which is what I'm mostly going for..Something that might have a story to tell and that I can pass down to my son. I definitely would like one that still has some german paraphenalia on it though. I'm actually having a fairly tough time finding one though. :-/ |
|
Quoted:
Go for it. Definitely! - RC 1937 German K98k produced by J.P. Sauer und Sohn - RC 1939 German K98k produced by Berlin-Luebecker Maschinenfabrik - Postwar Czech K98k produced by CZ Brno - Postwar Yugoslavian rework of a German K98k (unknown original maker) - 1950s Israeli K98k produced by FN and later rechambered to 7.62 NATO by the IDF 
|
|
Did the K98 ever have a straight bolt handle? I know absolutely nothing about these Mausers and am not sure what markings to look for, but at a gunshow this weekend there was what was labeled a "German issue K98" that had a straight bolt handle. But he had other Mausers such as a Yugo and a Chilean and some others but I don't know what markings I should be looking for. I did see another K98 which was listed as being German marked and having matching numbers. I think he wanted $1600 for it. I know that things are generally overpriced at gunshows, but are matching Mausers really going for that much?
Can those Yugo M48 Mausers take the German K98 stock that has the cutout where the bolt handle is and has that circular disk In the butstock? |
|
Quoted:
Did the K98 ever have a straight bolt handle? I know absolutely nothing about these Mausers and am not sure what markings to look for, but at a gunshow this weekend there was what was labeled a "German issue K98" that had a straight bolt handle. Quoted:
Did the K98 ever have a straight bolt handle? I know absolutely nothing about these Mausers and am not sure what markings to look for, but at a gunshow this weekend there was what was labeled a "German issue K98" that had a straight bolt handle. No, they did not. All K98ks had turned down bolt handles. However, the German military during WW2 did use some other Mauser 98 variants that had straight bolt handles, such as the Vz. 24/G24t, Gewehr 98, Wz. 29, etc. And a K98k will accept the bolt from many other Mauser 98s, including straight handled bolts. So it could have been something other than a K98k, or it could have been a K98k with some other sort of bolt installed. I did see another K98 which was listed as being German marked and having matching numbers. I think he wanted $1600 for it. I know that things are generally overpriced at gunshows, but are matching Mausers really going for that much? Yes. That's not out of line for an all original, all matching, good condition K98k. Especially if it was a rare receiver code, or had some other sort of interesting feature that adds to the value. Can those Yugo M48 Mausers take the German K98 stock that has the cutout where the bolt handle is and has that circular disk In the butstock? No. The Yugoslavian M48 and M24/47 have an intermediate-length receiver, compared to the standard-length receiver used on the K98k. Stocks will not interchange between them, due to the differences in receiver length. |
|
I saw something the other day at my LGS that would make a K98 collector cry. The owner asked me to look at a sported K98 and it was what was left of a matching byf 45 full Kriegmodel!
All the metal had been buffed to hell and gone and bright blued. The stock was chopped, sanded, stained, and varnished. It was not even worth a rescue unless someone wanted to make a fake sniper or something. Sigh....Another Barrel-O-Mausers sporter. 
It would have looked like this in full trim. 
|
|
Quoted:
Whats the large button looking thing on the butt end of the stock? The bolt takedown disk. It allows you to compress the firing pin spring so that you can remove the cocking piece, as part of disassembling the bolt. 
Late war and postwar K98ks omitted that, and simply had a hole drilled in the toe of the buttplate/buttstock. You can see that in the middle and bottom K98ks in the photo I posted above (the Czech and Israeli K98ks). It's not 100% necessary. Some of the other Mauser 98s didn't have any sort of bolt takedown hole/disk altogether, in which case the firing pin assembly was usually compressed using just a wooden surface. |
|
So if I want a K98 that a German soldier carried in WWII that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (such as one with matching numbers), I should look at a Russian capture K98? I suppose something like this? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=467505364
I see that this one has the eagle markings on it. Is that common on a Russian capture or did they normally stamp them out? |
|
Quoted:
So if I want a K98 that a German soldier carried in WWII that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (such as one with matching numbers), I should look at a Russian capture K98? Quoted:
So if I want a K98 that a German soldier carried in WWII that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (such as one with matching numbers), I should look at a Russian capture K98? Yes. I see that this one has the eagle markings on it. Is that common on a Russian capture or did they normally stamp them out? The eagle proof marks themselves were not usually stamped/scratched out on RC K98ks, though there are some examples of other captured K98ks that have had the entire eagle defaced. Instead, the swastika just below the eagle is sometimes defaced with a round punch on some RC K98ks (but not all). Standard proof mark: 
Defaced/"peened" proof mark on a RC: 
Here's an example of a non-RC K98k that has had all of the proof marks thoroughly obliterated with a chisel: 
|
|
Quoted:
Yes. The eagle proof marks themselves were not usually stamped/scratched out on RC K98ks, though there are some examples of other captured K98ks that have had the entire eagle defaced. Instead, the swastika just below the eagle is sometimes defaced with a round punch on some RC K98ks (but not all). Standard proof mark: http://i44.tinypic.com/11spoh1.jpg Defaced/"peened" proof mark on a RC: http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/germanservicerifles/1939660steyrk98k/DSC02058aMedium.jpg Here's an example of a non-RC K98k that has had all of the proof marks thoroughly obliterated with a chisel: http://i48.tinypic.com/optugz.jpg Quoted:
Quoted:
So if I want a K98 that a German soldier carried in WWII that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (such as one with matching numbers), I should look at a Russian capture K98? Yes. I see that this one has the eagle markings on it. Is that common on a Russian capture or did they normally stamp them out? The eagle proof marks themselves were not usually stamped/scratched out on RC K98ks, though there are some examples of other captured K98ks that have had the entire eagle defaced. Instead, the swastika just below the eagle is sometimes defaced with a round punch on some RC K98ks (but not all). Standard proof mark: http://i44.tinypic.com/11spoh1.jpg Defaced/"peened" proof mark on a RC: http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/germanservicerifles/1939660steyrk98k/DSC02058aMedium.jpg Here's an example of a non-RC K98k that has had all of the proof marks thoroughly obliterated with a chisel: http://i48.tinypic.com/optugz.jpg I'm not interested in this one, but it appears that the eagle proof marks have been completely peened out. What would have been the story behind this? What country would have used/done this? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=467803686 |
|
Quoted:
Definitely! - RC 1937 German K98k produced by J.P. Sauer und Sohn - RC 1939 German K98k produced by Berlin-Luebecker Maschinenfabrik - Postwar Czech K98k produced by CZ Brno - Postwar Yugoslavian rework of a German K98k (unknown original maker) - 1950s Israeli K98k produced by FN and later rechambered to 7.62 NATO by the IDF http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n416/RogueJSK/Mobile%20Uploads/20140913_120544_zpsllmxg79u.jpg Quoted:
Quoted:
Go for it. Definitely! - RC 1937 German K98k produced by J.P. Sauer und Sohn - RC 1939 German K98k produced by Berlin-Luebecker Maschinenfabrik - Postwar Czech K98k produced by CZ Brno - Postwar Yugoslavian rework of a German K98k (unknown original maker) - 1950s Israeli K98k produced by FN and later rechambered to 7.62 NATO by the IDF http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n416/RogueJSK/Mobile%20Uploads/20140913_120544_zpsllmxg79u.jpg Way to go! HDH. |
|
Quoted:
I'm not interested in this one, but it appears that the eagle proof marks have been completely peened out. What would have been the story behind this? What country would have used/done this? K98ks with completely defaced proof marks, either with numerous punch marks or the chisel marks I posted above, are typically associated with Romania and various other Balkan states. They're usually referred to as "Romanian Capture" or "Balkan Capture" K98ks. They tend to have very worn metal and wood, and lack the dark reblueing and shellacked stocks typical of Russian Capture rifles. |
|
I got both of mine within the last two years for $300 apiece. Both are in excellent shape with intact markings. But that's slightly below market value. Figure ~$400, with rifles with less common receiver codes being higher.
There are plenty of people asking $500/$600/$700 for RC K98s right now, but that's excessive. You can get a non-refurbished bolt mismatch for those prices. Just be patient, and keep an eye on various online milsurp forums. |
|
Quoted:
I got both of mine within the last two years for $300 apiece. Both are in excellent shape with intact markings. But that's slightly below market value. Figure ~$400, with rifles with less common receiver codes being higher. There are plenty of people asking $500/$600/$700 for RC K98s right now, but that's excessive. You can get a non-refurbished bolt mismatch for those prices. Just be patient, and keep an eye on various online milsurp forums. +1 I consider a RC to be worth $360 +/- in Minnesota. The dealers who have them on their tables for $500+, have the same rifles at every show. They might find a sucker eventually. Ive got 4 vet bringback / bolt mismatch rifles, One I snagged on pure luck for $350, the others were 750-850 ( BEAUTIFUL shape mint bore 1937 and 1939 rifles with original slings, etc ) |
| You have to be careful not to get hosed on humped Bring backs. They get sanded, remarked, modified you name it. RC's and Yugo's make good shooters and are a safe place to start for a beginner. On RC's look for a good barrel and late war guns are usually the best. RC's are put together out of bins of parts so the tolerances don't always meet German specs but these can be found on web. A couple hours of shiming and they are good. Yugo's were rearsenaled and if still matching via restamp they are in spec thus they shoot pretty good from the get go. |
|
Quoted:
I got both of mine within the last two years for $300 apiece. Both are in excellent shape with intact markings. But that's slightly below market value. Figure ~$400, with rifles with less common receiver codes being higher. There are plenty of people asking $500/$600/$700 for RC K98s right now, but that's excessive. You can get a non-refurbished bolt mismatch for those prices. Just be patient, and keep an eye on various online milsurp forums. Guess I'll have to register and find a few of these boards then. Gunbroker just seems insane with how many variables there are... plus I feel I'd trust a 5+ year member at a gun board more than some gun shop guy. |
|
Quoted:
Guess I'll have to register and find a few of these boards then. Gunbroker just seems insane with how many variables there are... plus I feel I'd trust a 5+ year member at a gun board more than some gun shop guy. Quoted:
Quoted:
I got both of mine within the last two years for $300 apiece. Both are in excellent shape with intact markings. But that's slightly below market value. Figure ~$400, with rifles with less common receiver codes being higher. There are plenty of people asking $500/$600/$700 for RC K98s right now, but that's excessive. You can get a non-refurbished bolt mismatch for those prices. Just be patient, and keep an eye on various online milsurp forums. Guess I'll have to register and find a few of these boards then. Gunbroker just seems insane with how many variables there are... plus I feel I'd trust a 5+ year member at a gun board more than some gun shop guy. Your best bet is.... http://www.k98kforum.com/forum.php By far the most knowledgeable group of guys out there on the 98k....tons of info, lots of pic stickies for reference...good trader board too... |
|
Quoted:
BYF 44 an uncle brought back - sat in a closet in Illinois for about 50 years. Great shooter http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=846176&size=1 http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=846190&size=1 http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=846191&size=1 http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=846192&size=1 http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=846193&size=1 http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=846194&size=1 http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=846195&size=1 My God, what a beautiful rifle! The fact that your uncle brought it back makes it worth that much more. |
|
I love my K98. Its a DOU 43. I originally bought it off a friend for about 150 bucks. It was a hacked, sporterized POS. The original 7.92 barrel was burnt out. So, I completely refurnished the rifle.
Refurnished an old, beat to hell DOU stock with boiled linseed oil. Mounted a repro Long Side Rail mount and original Picar Berlin 4x German #4 post reticle Free-floated the barrel per German army specs, save the last bit of front-end stock Rebarrled it with a Norwegian Kongsberg .308 barrel Installed a Timney trigger group. I now have about a 1 MOA K98 sniper rifle chambered in 7.62x51. 
Target engaged at 450 Meters. |
|
Prices on K98s are going nowhere but UP...a Russian capture would be a good entry level choice if you can find one in the $300-$400 range.
As far as other WWII rifles to collect, I would strongly suggest ordering an M1 Garand from the CMP as soon as you can. They won't be available forever! |
|
Quoted:
I love my K98. Its a DOU 43. I originally bought it off a friend for about 150 bucks. It was a hacked, sporterized POS. The original 7.92 barrel was burnt out. So, I completely refurnished the rifle. Refurnished an old, beat to hell DOU stock with boiled linseed oil. Mounted a repro Long Side Rail mount and original Picar Berlin 4x German #4 post reticle Free-floated the barrel per German army specs, save the last bit of front-end stock Rebarrled it with a Norwegian Kongsberg .308 barrel Installed a Timney trigger group. I now have about a 1 MOA K98 sniper rifle chambered in 7.62x51. <a href="http://s31.photobucket.com/user/whatsinaname181/media/0213141307e_zpsced0ef4e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/whatsinaname181/0213141307e_zpsced0ef4e.jpg</a> <a href="http://s31.photobucket.com/user/whatsinaname181/media/0213141304a_zps64791d08.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/whatsinaname181/0213141304a_zps64791d08.jpg</a> <a href="http://s31.photobucket.com/user/whatsinaname181/media/0213141305_zps4c51fa57.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/whatsinaname181/0213141305_zps4c51fa57.jpg</a> <a href="http://s31.photobucket.com/user/whatsinaname181/media/0222141224a_zps0af3c2b1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/whatsinaname181/0222141224a_zps0af3c2b1.jpg</a> <a href="http://s31.photobucket.com/user/whatsinaname181/media/0222141351b_zpsd860bb60.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/whatsinaname181/0222141351b_zpsd860bb60.jpg</a> Target engaged at 450 Meters. "If" you ever decide to part with that please let me know. Great job on it. 
|
|
Quoted:
Prices on K98s are going nowhere but UP...a Russian capture would be a good entry level choice if you can find one in the $300-$400 range. As far as other WWII rifles to collect, I would strongly suggest ordering an M1 Garand from the CMP as soon as you can. They won't be available forever! I've got an Springfield M1 currently and my Dad is willing to sell me his fathers GI bring back 6.5 jap. Not sure what type exactly, I'll have to get an ID on that eventually. I'd like to get a Mosin at some point and obviously a K98...Just having a hard time finding one in the 3-400 range. Been keeping an eye out, but no luck so far. |
|
Very similar to the original poster my interest has been peaked lately collecting some older firearms. I was wondering if you guys had some recommendation on where to look for a all numbers matching German K98k. Any recommended people or dealers contact information would be much appreciated.
I fully understand these aren't cheap but I don't want to get taken advantage off from being newer to this game so I was thinking somewhere in the $1,000 - $1,500 area, is this accurate? Any assistance would be much appreciated. Thanks. |
|
Quoted:
Very similar to the original poster my interest has been peaked lately collecting some older firearms. I was wondering if you guys had some recommendation on where to look for a all numbers matching German K98k. Any recommended people or dealers contact information would be much appreciated. I fully understand these aren't cheap but I don't want to get taken advantage off from being newer to this game so I was thinking somewhere in the $1,000 - $1,500 area, is this accurate? Any assistance would be much appreciated. Thanks. Probably a bit on the low side, unfortunately...here is a good one for sale... http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?17221-WTS-K98k-ce-42-slant-script-matching Ham is a good guy, and its a good rifle.... Watch the trader board on the forum, good guns show up here quite a bit..... |
|
maybe you should cruise the pawn shops for a 98K. They seem to sell cheaper in pawn shops than they do on the net.
I bought a Norwegian capture, rebarrelled to 30-06, HERR version last year for $200. everything but the barrel was matching, they even recycled the rear site, the original 8mm is under the remarked 30-06 slide. Its a very accurate rifle too, my favorite 98K. The guy told me it was converted to 30-06 by the US Govt, he didn't know what it was, I made an offer, he took it. |
Armory Sponsor