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Posted: 9/5/2012 7:22:43 PM EDT
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I've been shopping around and looking for awhile, and have finally decided that I would like to purchase a surplus bolt action rifle for the pure fun of just shooting it. I've narrowed it down to these 2 rifles:
K98 M39 w/turn down bolt I have some experience with the mosin (a buddies), but no experience with the K98. I was hoping some of y'all could help tell me the pluses and minuses of each rifle. I know the 54r surplus ammo is easier to find and cheaper than the 8mm. But that's about it. If you could have only one of the above, which would you choose? Or would you choose something else entirely for a surplus bolt action? I would like to keep the cost of the rifle under $500. Thanks, Jake |
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Either are a great choice.
With the K98 though, its really a gamble to get a good shooting one as all the ones in your price range will be Russian capture/refurb jobs. Using who knows what parts and throwing them all together. With the Fin, you already know it will be a solid shooter. That said, some people prefir one of the two over the other. Myself, I prefir the Mauser, but I would be wary of buying online. If you can find some locally and inspect them, that would be the best bet. Or hell, see if you can borrow an example of each and send a few rounds down range for fun 
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Either are a great choice. With the K98 though, its really a gamble to get a good shooting one as all the ones in your price range will be Russian capture/refurb jobs. Using who knows what parts and throwing them all together. With the Fin, you already know it will be a solid shooter. That said, some people prefir one of the two over the other. Myself, I prefir the Mauser, but I would be wary of buying online. If you can find some locally and inspect them, that would be the best bet. Or hell, see if you can borrow an example of each and send a few rounds down range for fun That's what I was worried about on the K98, that I would have to spend more to get a good one. From what I have read, the Fin M39's are good to go and can be found well under $500. However, the Mauser actions are nicer than the Mosin's. I have quite a few friends that have Mosin's, but don't know anybody personally that has a K98. Might have to ask around. Thanks for the info. |
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I like the Mauser better myself but if you are only getting one I would buy the M39. Ammo and parts are dirt cheap and for $400 you should end up with basically a brand new rifle. Sights are easier to use on the M39 (IMHO). Pretty much this. Though I find the sights on both equally usable, I'm just a Mauser fan boy at heart 
Like I said, if you can find a K98 and inspect it before hand for bore/crown issues, that is the way I would go. If not, the Fin Mosins are a pretty sure bet. Another option would be a yugo mauser with a bent bolt. They can still be had for under 300 and are usually in fantastic condition. ETA: Here is a good Yugo And here are a few good K98's Wideners are good people, I'm sure if you went the K98 route, and requested it, they could help you go with the one with the best bore that is in your price range. |
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I like the Mauser better myself but if you are only getting one I would buy the M39. Ammo and parts are dirt cheap and for $400 you should end up with basically a brand new rifle. Sights are easier to use on the M39 (IMHO). Pretty much this. Though I find the sights on both equally usable, I'm just a Mauser fan boy at heart
Like I said, if you can find a K98 and inspect it before hand for bore/crown issues, that is the way I would go. If not, the Fin Mosins are a pretty sure bet. Another option would be a yugo mauser with a bent bolt. They can still be had for under 300 and are usually in fantastic condition. ETA: Here is a good Yugo And here are a few good K98's Wideners are good people, I'm sure if you went the K98 route, and requested it, they could help you go with the one with the best bore that is in your price range. Perfect!! Thanks for the links. Didn't even know about that site. |
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Yugo capture K98s are also floating around. Much nicer than the Russian Capture rifles. The only bummer is the lack of German markings but for a range toy they are gtg. How would I know that it is a Yugo capture? I see that the Yugo M48 has wood between the receiver and the rear sights, which the K98 does not. |
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Yugo capture K98s are also floating around. Much nicer than the Russian Capture rifles. The only bummer is the lack of German markings but for a range toy they are gtg. How would I know that it is a Yugo capture? I see that the Yugo M48 has wood between the receiver and the rear sights, which the K98 does not. Most Yugo captures I have seen still have the 'Mod. 98' scroll mark on the left side of the receiver and retain the blued bolt. The wood on the upper handguard is also a good tell as you already pointed out. |
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You can find some Yugo Capture K98 refurbs with new barrels (rebarrel) and in new Yugo made flat buttplate stocks with late war stamped hardware. They are about as close as one will ever get to a brand new K98. Excellent shooters.
Other than a M48 sniper my Yugo Capture K98 is the only Yugo Mauser I've kept. I suspect my Yugo K98 was just stored and never used after refurb. I still see them from time to time but prices have really gone up on them. Many are simply robbed for the stamped hardware. Not quite as high as a RC K98 but much more than your typical Yugo Capture K98. 
As to which mil-surp to buy you really can't go wrong with either. My first mil-surp was a Jap. Type 99. Enfields are a great mil-surp to start on too. |
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For a yugo scrubbed K-98, you could always check out Samco Global
Complete rifles are sold out, but a complete action for $219 isn't to bad, just find a beater stock for it and you'll be in business
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Also, consider that it's going to be a lot cheaper to feed your M39 - various militaries are still making and using 7.62x54r and there are huge amounts of it squirreled away in various countries. I think only Yugoslavia currently makes and uses 8mm & surplus will be increasingly harder to find. AFAIK x54r sells for a good 10 cents cheaper per round than 8mm.
And, as was pointed out above, there's way less guesswork in getting a good M39. |
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I've been shopping around and looking for awhile, and have finally decided that I would like to purchase a surplus bolt action rifle for the pure fun of just shooting it. I've narrowed it down to these 2 rifles: K98 M39 w/turn down bolt I have some experience with the mosin (a buddies), but no experience with the K98. I was hoping some of y'all could help tell me the pluses and minuses of each rifle. I know the 54r surplus ammo is easier to find and cheaper than the 8mm. But that's about it. If you could have only one of the above, which would you choose? Or would you choose something else entirely for a surplus bolt action? I would like to keep the cost of the rifle under $500. Thanks, Jake The ammo is not as cheap, but a Swedish M96 is probably the best built and most accurate mil-surp there is. |
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I've been shopping around and looking for awhile, and have finally decided that I would like to purchase a surplus bolt action rifle for the pure fun of just shooting it. I've narrowed it down to these 2 rifles: K98 M39 w/turn down bolt I have some experience with the mosin (a buddies), but no experience with the K98. I was hoping some of y'all could help tell me the pluses and minuses of each rifle. I know the 54r surplus ammo is easier to find and cheaper than the 8mm. But that's about it. If you could have only one of the above, which would you choose? Or would you choose something else entirely for a surplus bolt action? I would like to keep the cost of the rifle under $500. Thanks, Jake I understand that you want to shoot it, but what kind of shooting? 100yd pie plate shooting, or bench at a few hundred for accuracy? If purchased correctly, you can't go wrong with either rifle. However, one could work better than the other for you. |
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I've been shopping around and looking for awhile, and have finally decided that I would like to purchase a surplus bolt action rifle for the pure fun of just shooting it. I've narrowed it down to these 2 rifles: K98 M39 w/turn down bolt I have some experience with the mosin (a buddies), but no experience with the K98. I was hoping some of y'all could help tell me the pluses and minuses of each rifle. I know the 54r surplus ammo is easier to find and cheaper than the 8mm. But that's about it. If you could have only one of the above, which would you choose? Or would you choose something else entirely for a surplus bolt action? I would like to keep the cost of the rifle under $500. Thanks, Jake I understand that you want to shoot it, but what kind of shooting? 100yd pie plate shooting, or bench at a few hundred for accuracy? If purchased correctly, you can't go wrong with either rifle. However, one could work better than the other for you. It's really for the pure fun of it. A few of my friends have some surplus bolt actions (mostly Mosins) and I thought it would be a good time to go out there and have a little friendly competition with them. Anything from who can shoot the target first, to the best groups. The furthest I would probably shoot this rifle is 300 yards as is. I might eventually get a scope and go a little further, but I would want to find a scope from that period. |
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Something else entirely . . .
For pure fun, there are few rifles that compare to the K31 Swiss. It is a bolt action, just a straight pull bolt. Second choice would be a Swedish Mauser. Otherwise, I'm fond of the M1917. I've owned a couple of O3A3's but prefer shooting the 17. |
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I've been shopping around and looking for awhile, and have finally decided that I would like to purchase a surplus bolt action rifle for the pure fun of just shooting it. I've narrowed it down to these 2 rifles: K98 M39 w/turn down bolt I have some experience with the mosin (a buddies), but no experience with the K98. I was hoping some of y'all could help tell me the pluses and minuses of each rifle. I know the 54r surplus ammo is easier to find and cheaper than the 8mm. But that's about it. If you could have only one of the above, which would you choose? Or would you choose something else entirely for a surplus bolt action? I would like to keep the cost of the rifle under $500. Thanks, Jake I understand that you want to shoot it, but what kind of shooting? 100yd pie plate shooting, or bench at a few hundred for accuracy? If purchased correctly, you can't go wrong with either rifle. However, one could work better than the other for you. It's really for the pure fun of it. A few of my friends have some surplus bolt actions (mostly Mosins) and I thought it would be a good time to go out there and have a little friendly competition with them. Anything from who can shoot the target first, to the best groups. The furthest I would probably shoot this rifle is 300 yards as is. I might eventually get a scope and go a little further, but I would want to find a scope from that period. If you think you want to scope it, please buy an already scoped rifle or use a scout mount that doesn't do irreversible damage to the rifle. There are tons of K98s out there that have been drilled and tapped that no longer have any collector value but can do what you want a rifle to do. M39's are much more rare than k98s or most other Mosins so should not be permanently modified either. I agree any rilfe you buy is yours to do with as you please but this is where the crufflers hang out and you can make heads explode over modifying collectible rifles. |
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I've been shopping around and looking for awhile, and have finally decided that I would like to purchase a surplus bolt action rifle for the pure fun of just shooting it. I've narrowed it down to these 2 rifles: K98 M39 w/turn down bolt I have some experience with the mosin (a buddies), but no experience with the K98. I was hoping some of y'all could help tell me the pluses and minuses of each rifle. I know the 54r surplus ammo is easier to find and cheaper than the 8mm. But that's about it. If you could have only one of the above, which would you choose? Or would you choose something else entirely for a surplus bolt action? I would like to keep the cost of the rifle under $500. Thanks, Jake I understand that you want to shoot it, but what kind of shooting? 100yd pie plate shooting, or bench at a few hundred for accuracy? If purchased correctly, you can't go wrong with either rifle. However, one could work better than the other for you. It's really for the pure fun of it. A few of my friends have some surplus bolt actions (mostly Mosins) and I thought it would be a good time to go out there and have a little friendly competition with them. Anything from who can shoot the target first, to the best groups. The furthest I would probably shoot this rifle is 300 yards as is. I might eventually get a scope and go a little further, but I would want to find a scope from that period. If you think you want to scope it, please buy an already scoped rifle or use a scout mount that doesn't do irreversible damage to the rifle. There are tons of K98s out there that have been drilled and tapped that no longer have any collector value but can do what you want a rifle to do. M39's are much more rare than k98s or most other Mosins so should not be permanently modified either. I agree any rilfe you buy is yours to do with as you please but this is where the crufflers hang out and you can make heads explode over modifying collectible rifles. Very well said. The K31 is an awesome rifle, but ammo is very expensive and there is not good way to scope it without drilling. If you reload, I would go with a Mauser of any flavor that has a good bore and is already drilled for scope mounts. If you don't reload, I would go with the M39 and buy a lot of ammo now while it's still fairly cheap and available. If you must scope the M39, there are scout mounts available as mentioned above. It replaces the rear sight without modification and the rifle can always be put back to original. If you MUST put a scope on it, why not look for a PU Mosin that already has one. Does Mitchell's Mausers still sell the K98 repro snipers? |
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You guys are slippin'.......GET BOTH!
Seriously, though, I like them both, equally. Both will have their pros and cons, but in the end it's either a wash or comes down to personal preferences. The general rule for getting a shooter would be "buy the bore". That's usually the best place to start. |
| I think I'm going to go with the Mosin for my first bolt rifle. I don't reload and 54r is widely available and cheap. I'm back and forth on scoping one. Since I would want to keep it original, I would have to go with a PU for a scoped mosin. I've decided to buy an M39 with iron sights and leave it alone. If I decide I want a scoped Mosin, I will buy a PU then. Thanks for all of the help guys/gals. |
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I think I'm going to go with the Mosin for my first bolt rifle. I don't reload and 54r is widely available and cheap. I'm back and forth on scoping one. Since I would want to keep it original, I would have to go with a PU for a scoped mosin. I've decided to buy an M39 with iron sights and leave it alone. If I decide I want a scoped Mosin, I will buy a PU then. Thanks for all of the help guys/gals. Good choice. 
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I think I'm going to go with the Mosin for my first bolt rifle. I don't reload and 54r is widely available and cheap. I'm back and forth on scoping one. Since I would want to keep it original, I would have to go with a PU for a scoped mosin. I've decided to buy an M39 with iron sights and leave it alone. If I decide I want a scoped Mosin, I will buy a PU then. Thanks for all of the help guys/gals. Good choice.
What he said^ Be sure to post some pictures once you get it in. 
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The K31 is an awesome rifle, but ammo is very expensive and there is not good way to scope it without drilling. . . . The St. Marie clamp-on scope mount works great. This. And ammo isn't really that expensive either. Sure, it's expensive by Mosin Nagant standards, but 50 cents a round for what is essentially match grade surplus isn't too bad at all. My K31 is the most accurate rifle I own, followed by my M39. I think it's about time to add a Swede to the mix  .
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The K31 is an awesome rifle, but ammo is very expensive and there is not good way to scope it without drilling. . . . The St. Marie clamp-on scope mount works great. This. And ammo isn't really that expensive either. Sure, it's expensive by Mosin Nagant standards, but 50 cents a round for what is essentially match grade surplus isn't too bad at all. My K31 is the most accurate rifle I own, followed by my M39. I think it's about time to add a Swede to the mix .
I had the St Marine clamp on mount. I hated it because it doesn't center the scope over the bore and it's way too high. It's an akward gimick that doesn't work very well. Any modification to the K31 sighting system should be diopter sights. For the type of shooting the OP is wanting to do, .50/round is too expensive. It also sounds like he won't require match grade ammo. Even if he was okay with that (he may be), how expensive is GP-11 going to be in 10 years? |
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I had the St Marine clamp on mount. I hated it because it doesn't center the scope over the bore and it's way too high. It's an akward gimick that doesn't work very well. Any modification to the K31 sighting system should be diopter sights. For the type of shooting the OP is wanting to do, .50/round is too expensive. It also sounds like he won't require match grade ammo. Even if he was okay with that (he may be), how expensive is GP-11 going to be in 10 years? Well, I guess there's a reason they make so many flavors of ice cream. Tastes vary. I've owned a Mosin (and a Finish Mosin) and the experience shooting those is no where near as enjoyable to me as shooting the K31. Of all the guns I've owned (literally a couple hundred), two ALWAYS put a big grin on my face: the K31 and the Garand. YMMV, of course . . .
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I had the St Marine clamp on mount. I hated it because it doesn't center the scope over the bore and it's way too high. It's an awkward gimmick that doesn't work very well. Any modification to the K31 sighting system should be diopter sights. For the type of shooting the OP is wanting to do, .50/round is too expensive. It also sounds like he won't require match grade ammo. Even if he was okay with that (he may be), how expensive is GP-11 going to be in 10 years? Well, I guess there's a reason they make so many flavors of ice cream. Tastes vary. I've owned a Mosin (and a Finish Mosin) and the experience shooting those is no where near as enjoyable to me as shooting the K31. Of all the guns I've owned (literally a couple hundred), two ALWAYS put a big grin on my face: the K31 and the Garand. YMMV, of course . . . I love shooting my K31 too. I also love shooting scoped bolt guns for accuracy at distance. However, I've never met anyone who can honestly mix the 2 into one package with the St Marie mount and say it's optimal. Are you the first?
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I had the St Marine clamp on mount. I hated it because it doesn't center the scope over the bore and it's way too high. It's an awkward gimmick that doesn't work very well. Any modification to the K31 sighting system should be diopter sights. For the type of shooting the OP is wanting to do, .50/round is too expensive. It also sounds like he won't require match grade ammo. Even if he was okay with that (he may be), how expensive is GP-11 going to be in 10 years? Well, I guess there's a reason they make so many flavors of ice cream. Tastes vary. I've owned a Mosin (and a Finish Mosin) and the experience shooting those is no where near as enjoyable to me as shooting the K31. Of all the guns I've owned (literally a couple hundred), two ALWAYS put a big grin on my face: the K31 and the Garand. YMMV, of course . . . I love shooting my K31 too. I also love shooting scoped bolt guns for accuracy at distance. However, I've never met anyone who can honestly mix the 2 into one package with the St Marie mount and say it's optimal. Are you the first? No, not optimal. The side mount is definitely a distraction. But it does work and I just chalk it up to part of the charm of the package. It's a pretty funky gun, after all. The scope set up seems to fit it just fine. I have to say, though, that despite the less than ideal scope arrangement, I've owned few sporting rifles that could equal my Swiss for accuracy. |
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I had the St Marine clamp on mount. I hated it because it doesn't center the scope over the bore and it's way too high. It's an awkward gimmick that doesn't work very well. Any modification to the K31 sighting system should be diopter sights. For the type of shooting the OP is wanting to do, .50/round is too expensive. It also sounds like he won't require match grade ammo. Even if he was okay with that (he may be), how expensive is GP-11 going to be in 10 years? Well, I guess there's a reason they make so many flavors of ice cream. Tastes vary. I've owned a Mosin (and a Finish Mosin) and the experience shooting those is no where near as enjoyable to me as shooting the K31. Of all the guns I've owned (literally a couple hundred), two ALWAYS put a big grin on my face: the K31 and the Garand. YMMV, of course . . . I love shooting my K31 too. I also love shooting scoped bolt guns for accuracy at distance. However, I've never met anyone who can honestly mix the 2 into one package with the St Marie mount and say it's optimal. Are you the first? No, not optimal. The side mount is definitely a distraction. But it does work and I just chalk it up to part of the charm of the package. It's a pretty funky gun, after all. The scope set up seems to fit it just fine. I have to say, though, that despite the less than ideal scope arrangement, I've owned few sporting rifles that could equal my Swiss for accuracy. You call it a funky gun, I call it a perfect match for prone shooting with palma type sights. Lots of accuracy and the bolt make it perfection shooting prone. Maybe you're looking at it the wrong way with that "funky" scope mount? It really is that whole ice cream thing.
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You call it a funky gun, I call it a perfect match for prone shooting with palma type sights. Lots of accuracy and the bolt make it perfection shooting prone. Maybe you're looking at it the wrong way with that "funky" scope mount? It really is that whole ice cream thing. Makes sense. |
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The K31 is an awesome rifle, but ammo is very expensive and there is not good way to scope it without drilling. . . . The St. Marie clamp-on scope mount works great. This. And ammo isn't really that expensive either. Sure, it's expensive by Mosin Nagant standards, but 50 cents a round for what is essentially match grade surplus isn't too bad at all. My K31 is the most accurate rifle I own, followed by my M39. I think it's about time to add a Swede to the mix .
I had the St Marine clamp on mount. I hated it because it doesn't center the scope over the bore and it's way too high. It's an akward gimick that doesn't work very well. Any modification to the K31 sighting system should be diopter sights. For the type of shooting the OP is wanting to do, .50/round is too expensive. It also sounds like he won't require match grade ammo. Even if he was okay with that (he may be), how expensive is GP-11 going to be in 10 years? You can hardly find GP-11 NOW. Ten years from now it'll be a collector's item. Hell, I'm hesitant to shoot up the small store of it that I have, even though I'm DYING to see what my K31s can do. |
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OP, I'm going to go another route from the majority here and suggest that you should get the K98, if you ever want to own one. (under $500)
I bought my RC K98 for $225 and I couldn't touch one for that now, unless I got lucky. Turk are starting to sell for ~$225 in some areas. I own 3 Turk Mausers, One M48A, and a RC K98. Even with the Russians messing with it and installing what looks to be a VZ24 bolt into it, that K98 is still the nicest of the bunch, in terms of operation. If you can live without a K98, absolutely go with a Mosin-Nagant, for all the reasons listed above. I would suggest you look at the M39 AND other models, such as the Finn M91s and M28/30s and others. Heck, I have a refurb ex-sniper 91/30 that shoots pretty stinkin' good with random surplus and a Tikka M91 that's beat to shit, but shoots Chinese surplus especially like it's a laser. Some RC eye candy for you: 
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The K31 is an awesome rifle, but ammo is very expensive and there is not good way to scope it without drilling. . . . The St. Marie clamp-on scope mount works great. This. And ammo isn't really that expensive either. Sure, it's expensive by Mosin Nagant standards, but 50 cents a round for what is essentially match grade surplus isn't too bad at all. My K31 is the most accurate rifle I own, followed by my M39. I think it's about time to add a Swede to the mix .
The K31 looks like an awesome rifle, but the cheapest ammo I have found for it is .80/round. |
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The K31 is an awesome rifle, but ammo is very expensive and there is not good way to scope it without drilling. . . . The St. Marie clamp-on scope mount works great. This. And ammo isn't really that expensive either. Sure, it's expensive by Mosin Nagant standards, but 50 cents a round for what is essentially match grade surplus isn't too bad at all. My K31 is the most accurate rifle I own, followed by my M39. I think it's about time to add a Swede to the mix .
The K31 looks like an awesome rifle, but the cheapest ammo I have found for it is .80/round. The real deal........at 54 cents a round: GP11 Or at 48 cents a round if you want to buy two cases: GP11 If you're trying to find good deals on ammo, try this: Ammo Prices |
| And the K31 is a pretty good surplus rifle, huh? I've never seen/held one, but I like the straight back bolt concept. There are a lot more choices than I originally thought. I think I'm going to still get the M39 for my first and expand my collection from there. Looks like I need to research quite a few more rifles. Thanks again for all the input/help. |
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And the K31 is a pretty good surplus rifle, huh? I've never seen/held one, but I like the straight back bolt concept. There are a lot more choices than I originally thought. I think I'm going to still get the M39 for my first and expand my collection from there. Looks like I need to research quite a few more rifles. Thanks again for all the input/help. The K31 is a work of art. The first time you pull the bolt out of it you'll literally be stunned by the beauty and precision. It's almost unfathomable that the Swiss were able to craft such an exquisite action eighty years ago. You'll look at other mil-surps and think to yourself "did a caveman make this crude contraption" after playing with a K31. They really are that sweet. Oh, and the accuracy is on par with the rest of the rifle  .
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And the K31 is a pretty good surplus rifle, huh? I've never seen/held one, but I like the straight back bolt concept. There are a lot more choices than I originally thought. I think I'm going to still get the M39 for my first and expand my collection from there. Looks like I need to research quite a few more rifles. Thanks again for all the input/help. The K31 is a work of art. The first time you pull the bolt out of it you'll literally be stunned by the beauty and precision. It's almost unfathomable that the Swiss were able to craft such an exquisite action eighty years ago. You'll look at other mil-surps and think to yourself "did a caveman make this crude contraption" after playing with a K31. They really are that sweet. Oh, and the accuracy is on par with the rest of the rifle .
You were spot on. I ended up buying an M39 here on the forum and a I'm picking up a K31 from a local seller Saturday. I haven't handled the M39 yet, but the K31 was definitely a work of art. I'll be sure to post pics when I have them both. |
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