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Posted: 5/24/2012 9:38:02 PM EDT
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I've vaguely remember reading that it was advisable (or required?) to document, in your bound book, any C&R eligible firearms that you purchase at a gun shop or elsewhere, not via your C&R License ?
For Example: I go and buy a Yugo M24/47 at a local sporting goods store/gun-shop like Big 5 or Dicks or whatever, the old fashioned way, with background checks and all that fun stuff. Another example: Buddy gives me an SKS as a going away present. Do i put that in the book? I've searched the database at the ATF web site concerning C&R stuff, but no joy, or, My Seach-Fu sucks. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. |
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I understand it thusly, Do you have a C&R? Is the firearm C&R applicable? If both are yes, then yes. If either is no, then no. This coming from the gurus at Surplusrifle.com +1 . . . that's a good way to express it. The other way that's commonly quoted is, "You don't USE your license. YOU ARE LICENSED." As a licensed individual, you log EVERY C&R. |
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Correct. Any C&R aquisitions or dispositions while having a current license is logged. Something already owned before becoming licensed is not
logged unless you sell, give away, donate, etc, while having a current license. If your license expires and then renew. You may start a new bound book. The old book is not required to be saved. |
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You may have already looked at these.
Open and search for 'curio' http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf FAQ page http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html |
Thanks for the info. I saw no harm in logging in any C&R Eligible firearms that I purchased or was given after acquiring my license back in 2005, but, I was having a hard time finding an example of this issue on the ATF site concerning C&R FFL's. I was considering just calling them if I was not able to get any concrete answers to this particular issue. This also opens another can of worms. Do I log that old antique shotgun grandpap gave me when I was a kid, that old Model 70 Rifle...... this could get ugly......
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I've vaguely remember reading that it was advisable (or required?) to document, in your bound book, any C&R eligible firearms that you purchase at a gun shop or elsewhere, not via your C&R License ? For Example: I go and buy a Yugo M24/47 at a local sporting goods store/gun-shop like Big 5 or Dicks or whatever, the old fashioned way, with background checks and all that fun stuff. Another example: Buddy gives me an SKS as a going away present. Do i put that in the book? I've searched the database at the ATF web site concerning C&R stuff, but no joy, or, My Seach-Fu sucks. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. You ARE LICENSED, it is not that you USE your license. A C&R gun gets logged into your book, and logged out if disposed of while you are licensed. Anything you had before you were licensed, if you get rid, of it, gets logged in and out too, IIRC. Hope that helps. 
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Thanks for the info. I saw no harm in logging in any C&R Eligible firearms that I purchased or was given after acquiring my license back in 2005, but, I was having a hard time finding an example of this issue on the ATF site concerning C&R FFL's. I was considering just calling them if I was not able to get any concrete answers to this particular issue. This also opens another can of worms. Do I log that old antique shotgun grandpap gave me when I was a kid, that old Model 70 Rifle...... this could get ugly...... Everything you aquired before you got your license is not logged in unless you get rid of it. For example, I had an 03 from 2008-2011, it expired, I threw away the pages of my book. I reapplied for a new license, and when I got it my book is still blank unless i aquire or dispose of something. |
| This has simplified something for me. I just bought a Colt 1903 pistol, and was thinking that I would record it in my book in the "not purchased with the license" section I made. Now I'm going to rename that section to reflect acquisitions made BEFORE my license, and I'll log the Colt in the regular bound book section. My understanding, based on what I'd read in ATF publications, was based on the phrase "by a licensee," implying the use of the license in the acquisition, as opposed to the acquisition being BY the licensee. It makes a lot more sense in the "by a licensee" context. |
Why do people have so much trouble understanding this? 
If you have a C&R license and acquire or dispose of any C&R weapon in the time that you are licensed, by any means, you log it in the book at the time that you acquire/dispose of it. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter if it was a private sale, willed to you, or you had to do a 4473 to obtain it, or you stole it  , they should be logged in the bound book. What is so hard to understand about that? Geez, people.  
ETA: I'm not trying to bash the OP for asking the question. If you don't know, ask, by all means. However, it seems that this question comes up about once a week and it never fails that somebody answers with misinformation. |
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Quoted:
Why do people have so much trouble understanding this?
If you have a C&R license and acquire or dispose of any C&R weapon in the time that you are licensed, by any means, you log it in the book at the time that you acquire/dispose of it. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter if it was a private sale, willed to you, or you had to do a 4473 to obtain it, or you stole it , they should be logged in the bound book. What is so hard to understand about that? Geez, people.
ETA: I'm not trying to bash the OP for asking the question. If you don't know, ask, by all means. However, it seems that this question comes up about once a week and it never fails that somebody answers with misinformation. You have to admit that ATF rules are seldom "straightforward and simple to comprehend." The semantics of the rules had me confused (and I have quite a lot of experience writing military regulations), but when restated as "anything C&R eligible that the licensee acquires during the period of the license must be recorded in the bound book," it all falls into place. Of course that sort of rule won't get past OMB review, but that's another matter.
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Quoted:
Why do people have so much trouble understanding this?
If you have a C&R license and acquire or dispose of any C&R weapon in the time that you are licensed, by any means, you log it in the book at the time that you acquire/dispose of it. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter if it was a private sale, willed to you, or you had to do a 4473 to obtain it, or you stole it , they should be logged in the bound book. What is so hard to understand about that? Geez, people.
ETA: I'm not trying to bash the OP for asking the question. If you don't know, ask, by all means. However, it seems that this question comes up about once a week and it never fails that somebody answers with misinformation. Becuase no one takes the time to read the rules and regs |
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Correct. Any C&R aquisitions or dispositions while having a current license is logged. Something already owned before becoming licensed is not logged unless you sell, give away, donate, etc, while having a current license. If your license expires and then renew. You may start a new bound book. The old book is not required to be saved. I know what you are saying, but the word renew could confuse someone. If your C&R FFL expires and you apply for a completely new license, you don't have to keep your bound book. However if you renew your license, the book continues on. |
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Quoted:
Why do people have so much trouble understanding this?
If you have a C&R license and acquire or dispose of any C&R weapon in the time that you are licensed, by any means, you log it in the book at the time that you acquire/dispose of it. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter if it was a private sale, willed to you, or you had to do a 4473 to obtain it, or you stole it , they should be logged in the bound book. What is so hard to understand about that? Geez, people.
ETA: I'm not trying to bash the OP for asking the question. If you don't know, ask, by all means. However, it seems that this question comes up about once a week and it never fails that somebody answers with misinformation. Becuase no one takes the time to read the rules and regs 
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Becuase no one takes the time to read the rules and regs Greetings from no one. I can read medical, engineering, photography, computerese, and most gun jargon, but Federal Regulation jargon is kind of rough to wade through. This is, of course, why so many attorneys make plenty of money outside the courtroom; interpreting this sort of language is crucial. |
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Becuase no one takes the time to read the rules and regs Greetings from no one. I can read medical, engineering, photography, computerese, and most gun jargon, but Federal Regulation jargon is kind of rough to wade through. This is, of course, why so many attorneys make plenty of money outside the courtroom; interpreting this sort of language is crucial. The maze of local, state and federal laws and regulations these days is why I believe the old adage "ignorance of the law is no excuse" no longer applies. Even judged and lawyers don't know the whole law anymore, even within their specialties. They have to look it up. How is the average Joe supposed to follow every law every day anymore? The answer is, probably most people are breaking one law or another practically every day without even knowing it. This country needs to do a reset. Throw it all out. Come up with a new legal code that is consistent, uniform and follows common sense. And frankly, Keep It Simple Stupid. The law should be written so ANYONE can understand it without needing to have a JD. And EVERY law should sunset periodically. If it is important, and worth being a law, it should be re-passed every so often. Re-visited. Updated if needed. If politicians need something to do (they seem to pass new laws just to justify their existance) then keeping the current law up to date should be more important than passing new laws and restrictions, most of which we probably don't even need. And it should be much easier to repeal a law than to pass one. |
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Becuase no one takes the time to read the rules and regs Greetings from no one. I can read medical, engineering, photography, computerese, and most gun jargon, but Federal Regulation jargon is kind of rough to wade through. This is, of course, why so many attorneys make plenty of money outside the courtroom; interpreting this sort of language is crucial. I beleive in the rule book and on the ATF site there is a section of questions and answers that covers all these basic questions. |
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Becuase no one takes the time to read the rules and regs Greetings from no one. I can read medical, engineering, photography, computerese, and most gun jargon, but Federal Regulation jargon is kind of rough to wade through. This is, of course, why so many attorneys make plenty of money outside the courtroom; interpreting this sort of language is crucial. I beleive in the rule book and on the ATF site there is a section of questions and answers that covers all these basic questions. I agree completely. However, that site is still less than clear for someone who is coming to C&R without a lot of experience in ATF terminology - and their particular method of wording things. Further, the C&R FAQ does not address what goes into a bound book, only mentioning the book once and then only regarding surrendering records. |
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Search function on BATF's site works. Use it.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.8.1.6&idno=27 |
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