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Posted: 10/13/2011 10:51:06 AM EDT
| I want to buy a M91/30 and I've tried to educated myself about them but I don't want to buy one, be disappointed with it, and buy the one I should have in the first place. I would love to have a matching numbers PU/PE/PEM, should I buy one of those first? Or just a nice "shooter" first? Thanks for any advice. |
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How much money do you have? There is a big difference in price between any 91/30 and one of the snipers.
What you want to do with it? Range toy? Hunt? Just look at it? I would buy a nice (numbers matching, looks good) wartime M44 first. They are fun and handy. They are going to get much more scarce, and already have... Next either get a handpicked Hex, or pony up for an Rguns sniper. If you dont care as much about authenticity and like to shoot a lot, you cant really go wrong with one of the repro snipers that Century is bringing in. My $.02's. |
| Thanks for the suggestions so far, keep 'em coming. I'm leaning towards the 91/30 Hex receiver because I will eventually have a PU and those are the round receiver. I also like the M44 with the side-folding bayonet and short overall length. I want a good shooter to start off with as the ammo is cheap enough to put a lot of rounds downrange. There are a couple gun shows coming up that I will be looking for a good deal. If I end up ordering one online, who has the nicest ones available? |
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Thanks for the suggestions so far, keep 'em coming. I'm leaning towards the 91/30 Hex receiver because I will eventually have a PU and those are the round receiver. I also like the M44 with the side-folding bayonet and short overall length. I want a good shooter to start off with as the ammo is cheap enough to put a lot of rounds downrange. There are a couple gun shows coming up that I will be looking for a good deal. If I end up ordering one online, who has the nicest ones available? Go to the shows and shops and see what you can find. In the meantime, keep doing your research and see what details grab your interest (sounds like you're well on your way!). As for who has the best condition, there's really no right answer. I think you have just as good of a chance with any vendor, should you order one, sight-unseen. I know people have had good luck with AIM Surplus and I recommend them from my experiences, for their pricing and great customer service. Nothing beats buying in person, though. If you have the chance to hold it in your hands, first, that's always a big plus. |
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The biggest problem with Mosins is they multiply . It starts with a 91/30 then you need a new safe QFT Bought my first 91/30 a few weeks ago as a nice shooter. Now I'm on the hunt for a nice M44, and a few nice, original ex dragoons. They're like crack. |
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Never cared for the M44 much and got rid of all of mine that I had accrued over the years. If you want a carbine go with the M38 or 91/59 over the M44.
If you are just starting out I would go for a nice Hex 91/30 and then see if its the direction you want to go as that leads into multiple types of variations. As has been said before they seem to multiply and I cant help but look over a new crate of them each time we get more in. But alas I pass on them as I have many already. For shooting however the 91's are honestly the nicest shooting in my opinion. So M38 or 91/30 first PU sniper if you have the cash ( Rguns still had some in the $1k range) Fake PU for just fun for around $500 91's Dragoon's Cossack's and so on 
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| Go to a local shop and inspect some 91/30s inside the wall of the receiver next to the bolt. Check for two filled in holes to see if a PU scope was attached to it at some point. You'll more than likely have discovered a refurbed ex-sniper that will likely be more accurate than the standard 91/30s. They won't cost more since they're in the same configuration as the standard rifles.My LGS had at least 6 of these mixed in with a bunch of standard rifles at one point and if I had the funds for it, I would of bought all 6. |
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Never cared for the M44 much and got rid of all of mine that I had accrued over the years. If you want a carbine go with the M38 or 91/59 over the M44. If you are just starting out I would go for a nice Hex 91/30 and then see if its the direction you want to go as that leads into multiple types of variations. As has been said before they seem to multiply and I cant help but look over a new crate of them each time we get more in. But alas I pass on them as I have many already. For shooting however the 91's are honestly the nicest shooting in my opinion. So M38 or 91/30 first PU sniper if you have the cash ( Rguns still had some in the $1k range) Fake PU for just fun for around $500 91's Dragoon's Cossack's and so on +1 for the Hex 91/30 |
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Like Sajer already posted, I much prefer the M38 over the M44. The M38 just handles and balances so much nicer without the big chunk of steel hanging off the end of the barrel.
If you want to buy just your standard hex reciever refurb I would get on Gunbroker and check out the listings from Tennesee Guns Inc. They have a nice selection of hex receivers including ex-dragoons and each gun is accurately described and they have plenty of sharp and detailed pictures. Another huge plus is the discreet import markings on them, no billboards markings. They might cost a bit more than your standard lottery pick from AIM but you know what your getting, which is worth it IMO. If you don't mind the ugly billboard import mark on the receiver, then AIM is the way to go. They won't knowingly send you junk. |
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Do yourself a favor at the beginning. Buy a Finnish Mosin.
You will work up to this eventially once you figure out mosins and then you will never even touch the Russian Junk again. The pinnacle is a non "D" marked M28/30 for accuracy, but good luck in finding one. It took me years to find one and it was from this board that I obtained mine. A good place to start is a post war M39 as the quality of the war year M39's are not up to typical Finnish standards, but still far better than the Russian no consideration for quality control crap. I have seen Russian bore diameters run anywhere from .307 to .319. |
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Do yourself a favor at the beginning. Buy a Finnish Mosin. You will work up to this eventially once you figure out mosins and then you will never even touch the Russian Junk again. The pinnacle is a non "D" marked M28/30 for accuracy, but good luck in finding one. It took me years to find one and it was from this board that I obtained mine. A good place to start is a post war M39 as the quality of the war year M39's are not up to typical Finnish standards, but still far better than the Russian no consideration for quality control crap. I have seen Russian bore diameters run anywhere from .307 to .319. Words of wisdom here. The M28/30 is my personal favorite and also a great shooter. My M28 is maybe mechanically more accurate, but only slightly, because it has a pristine bore, but the sights of the M28/30 are far better. If you are able to find a reasonably priced 91/x sniper version though, that's probably a good option too. |
| You can't go wrong with a hex 91/30 from either AIM or Classic Arms at 89.99 each with all accessories. Bryan at AIM is great and I have ordered several guns from Classic that were nice also (check out their Swiss rifles, just bought a nice 1911 from them). I agree the Finn M39 is a huge improvement over the standard 91/30. Just picked up a M39 from Southern Ohio Gun for around $270.00 shipped IIRC. Pat Burns also has a bunch of M39's and had just listed a load of new ones about a week ago, many post war. Like the other posters said, If you can find one at your local gun store you can pick out the nicest one yourself. I bought my first 91/30 this way a year ago for $99.00 plus tax with all accessories, transfer fees and 20 rounds of ammo. I have even seen Cabelas offering them for around $80.00 on sale, but they are the round receivers. |
| I went to a couple LGS's today and they didn't have much. One had a round receiver M91/30 that was in pretty good shape and the other shop had a Chinese? M44 that was pretty rough and nome of the numbers matched. I did really like the size of the M44. I would like to check out the Finnish M39 as recommended. I like the semi pistol grip stock and the different sights. |
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Do yourself a favor at the beginning. Buy a Finnish Mosin. You will work up to this eventially once you figure out mosins and then you will never even touch the Russian Junk again. The pinnacle is a non "D" marked M28/30 for accuracy, but good luck in finding one. It took me years to find one and it was from this board that I obtained mine. A good place to start is a post war M39 as the quality of the war year M39's are not up to typical Finnish standards, but still far better than the Russian no consideration for quality control crap. I have seen Russian bore diameters run anywhere from .307 to .319. Yeah, finding a M28 or M28/30 is almost a job in itself. I fell into my first M28, found another in a gun shop that I knew wouldn't sell it fast, and ran into my M28/30 at a gun show. Only paid what I "should" have for the M28/30, but I bought it from a guy who knew what it was. He dropped some, I think, because I knew what it was and was probably the first guy who did, at that show. He knew at least that I wasn't going to drill and tap it. I'd probably get a 91/30 or M39 first. At least you can find places that have both in stock pretty much all of the time. |
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I went to a couple LGS's today and they didn't have much. One had a round receiver M91/30 that was in pretty good shape and the other shop had a Chinese? M44 that was pretty rough and nome of the numbers matched. I did really like the size of the M44. I would like to check out the Finnish M39 as recommended. I like the semi pistol grip stock and the different sights. Your going to have quite a hard time finding any Finnish mosins at the local gun shops, past few years they have getting scooped up by mosin collectors making them hard to find. Also one big problem with Finish mosins is your not suppose to use most of the surplus that is on the market in them. Most finish mosin's have a .3095 grove diameter v.s. the other mosins which have a .311. This means the .310-.311 bullets in most surplus ammo is too big for the barrel. As for that Chinese M44/T53 you might want to double check on that one. Sadly I haven't had the chance to test one seeing as they are one of the rarer M44s, but they are suppose to be decent quality. They are going for around $200 currently in rough shape as long as they are mostly matching. If your looking at a M44 might want to look for a Polish, been quite a few popping up on the market lately and they are very good quality. Otherwise a 91/30 is always a safe way to go, the round receivers are cheap enough you could get another one if the first isn't up to your liking. |
| They were asking $150 for the Chinese T53, non matching and really rough. I definitely want one in nicer condition and I would prefer Russian/Soviet guns or perhaps a Romanian M44 to go with my Romanian AK's. There's a gun show in 3 weeks and I at least know a couple models to be on the lookout for and what to look for. |
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I went to a couple LGS's today and they didn't have much. One had a round receiver M91/30 that was in pretty good shape and the other shop had a Chinese? M44 that was pretty rough and nome of the numbers matched. I did really like the size of the M44. I would like to check out the Finnish M39 as recommended. I like the semi pistol grip stock and the different sights. Your going to have quite a hard time finding any Finnish mosins at the local gun shops, past few years they have getting scooped up by mosin collectors making them hard to find. Also one big problem with Finish mosins is your not suppose to use most of the surplus that is on the market in them. Most finish mosin's have a .3095 grove diameter v.s. the other mosins which have a .311. This means the .310-.311 bullets in most surplus ammo is too big for the barrel. As for that Chinese M44/T53 you might want to double check on that one. Sadly I haven't had the chance to test one seeing as they are one of the rarer M44s, but they are suppose to be decent quality. They are going for around $200 currently in rough shape as long as they are mostly matching. If your looking at a M44 might want to look for a Polish, been quite a few popping up on the market lately and they are very good quality. Otherwise a 91/30 is always a safe way to go, the round receivers are cheap enough you could get another one if the first isn't up to your liking. Are you insane ? Tell that to the Finns who used them with captured russian ammo to great effectiveness durring the Winter War. The only one that might have trouble is a M28/30 (What Simo Hayha used) that has a .308 Bore and even those are fine if they are "D" stamp Throated as long as it's not steel core. The M27, M28, and M39 were designed around shooting the Russian ammo, but with tighter tolerance than the Russians to attain accuracy. I would not shoot heavy ball (200 Gr machine gun ammo) unless it's D throated, which almost all were except some of the M28/30s. Simo Hayha's M28/30 serial number 60974 sits in the Finnish Brigades memory room. His M28 (one that was lost) was an early conversion to M28/30 specs (see rear sights) but kept the front sight (makes it a 1932 M28/30). 
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Your going to have quite a hard time finding any Finnish mosins at the local gun shops, past few years they have getting scooped up by mosin collectors making them hard to find. Also one big problem with Finish mosins is your not suppose to use most of the surplus that is on the market in them. Most finish mosin's have a .3095 grove diameter v.s. the other mosins which have a .311. This means the .310-.311 bullets in most surplus ammo is too big for the barrel. As for that Chinese M44/T53 you might want to double check on that one. Sadly I haven't had the chance to test one seeing as they are one of the rarer M44s, but they are suppose to be decent quality. They are going for around $200 currently in rough shape as long as they are mostly matching. If your looking at a M44 might want to look for a Polish, been quite a few popping up on the market lately and they are very good quality. Otherwise a 91/30 is always a safe way to go, the round receivers are cheap enough you could get another one if the first isn't up to your liking. Are you insane ? Tell that to the Finns who used them with captured russian ammo to great effectiveness durring the Winter War. The only one that might have trouble is a M28/30 (What Simo Hayha used) that has a .308 Bore and even those are fine if they are "D" stamp Throated as long as it's not steel core. The M27, M28, and M39 were designed around shooting the Russian ammo, but with tighter tolerance than the Russians to attain accuracy. I would not shoot heavy ball (200 Gr machine gun ammo) unless it's D throated, which almost all were except some of the M28/30s. Simo Hayha's M28/30 serial number 60974 sits in the Finnish Brigades memory room. His M28 (one that was lost) was an early conversion to M28/30 specs (see rear sights) but kept the front sight (makes it a 1932 M28/30). I never said they couldn't shoot it I just said it I just said the bullets were too big. Pre 39 Finnish rifles barrels were designed for a .309 bullet that is why they have a .3095 grove diameter, it is not recommended to shoot .311 bullets in those rifles. Post 39 Finnish rifles or pre 39 rifles with the D barrel stamp can use surplus with the .311 bullets, seeing as they have a .310 groove diameter. However, you still are going to have increased ware in the barrel from shooting a .311 bullet which is slightly too big for the Finish barrels primarily designed for the Finnish .310 bullets. |
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I would get a finn ( Finnish ) or a 91/59 I have a 91/30,91/30 hex and an m44
Good reading here––->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin–Nagant |
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Your going to have quite a hard time finding any Finnish mosins at the local gun shops, past few years they have getting scooped up by mosin collectors making them hard to find. Also one big problem with Finish mosins is your not suppose to use most of the surplus that is on the market in them. Most finish mosin's have a .3095 grove diameter v.s. the other mosins which have a .311. This means the .310-.311 bullets in most surplus ammo is too big for the barrel. As for that Chinese M44/T53 you might want to double check on that one. Sadly I haven't had the chance to test one seeing as they are one of the rarer M44s, but they are suppose to be decent quality. They are going for around $200 currently in rough shape as long as they are mostly matching. If your looking at a M44 might want to look for a Polish, been quite a few popping up on the market lately and they are very good quality. Otherwise a 91/30 is always a safe way to go, the round receivers are cheap enough you could get another one if the first isn't up to your liking. Are you insane ? Tell that to the Finns who used them with captured russian ammo to great effectiveness durring the Winter War. The only one that might have trouble is a M28/30 (What Simo Hayha used) that has a .308 Bore and even those are fine if they are "D" stamp Throated as long as it's not steel core. The M27, M28, and M39 were designed around shooting the Russian ammo, but with tighter tolerance than the Russians to attain accuracy. I would not shoot heavy ball (200 Gr machine gun ammo) unless it's D throated, which almost all were except some of the M28/30s. Simo Hayha's M28/30 serial number 60974 sits in the Finnish Brigades memory room. His M28 (one that was lost) was an early conversion to M28/30 specs (see rear sights) but kept the front sight (makes it a 1932 M28/30). I never said they couldn't shoot it I just said it I just said the bullets were too big. Pre 39 Finnish rifles barrels were designed for a .309 bullet that is why they have a .3095 grove diameter, it is not recommended to shoot .311 bullets in those rifles. Post 39 Finnish rifles or pre 39 rifles with the D barrel stamp can use surplus with the .311 bullets, seeing as they have a .310 groove diameter. However, you still are going to have increased ware in the barrel from shooting a .311 bullet which is slightly too big for the Finish barrels primarily designed for the Finnish .310 bullets. Bullshit, Any "D" stamped (throated) Finn will shoot .311 bullets. Wether it's a .3082 (M28/30) up to .310 (M39) finn barrel. The only bullets that are a problem are the steel core ones. All M39's and almost all M27, M28 were "D" stamp throated. Not all M28/30 were throated and the ones that werent are highly sought after for their supurb accuracy with .308 bullets. You will never wear the barrel out shooting the larger bullets in fact it will last longer using oversized bullets, The Finns did extensive testing on this. The barrel throat burnout is the death of a barrel and amazingly enough a larger bullet decreases throat burnout (less gas blowby which eats out the barrel) and makes a longer living barrel. So, Finn barrels actually last much longer than Russian ones. You are showing your ignorance in barrel life mechanics. |
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Your going to have quite a hard time finding any Finnish mosins at the local gun shops, past few years they have getting scooped up by mosin collectors making them hard to find. Also one big problem with Finish mosins is your not suppose to use most of the surplus that is on the market in them. Most finish mosin's have a .3095 grove diameter v.s. the other mosins which have a .311. This means the .310-.311 bullets in most surplus ammo is too big for the barrel. As for that Chinese M44/T53 you might want to double check on that one. Sadly I haven't had the chance to test one seeing as they are one of the rarer M44s, but they are suppose to be decent quality. They are going for around $200 currently in rough shape as long as they are mostly matching. If your looking at a M44 might want to look for a Polish, been quite a few popping up on the market lately and they are very good quality. Otherwise a 91/30 is always a safe way to go, the round receivers are cheap enough you could get another one if the first isn't up to your liking. Are you insane ? Tell that to the Finns who used them with captured russian ammo to great effectiveness durring the Winter War. The only one that might have trouble is a M28/30 (What Simo Hayha used) that has a .308 Bore and even those are fine if they are "D" stamp Throated as long as it's not steel core. The M27, M28, and M39 were designed around shooting the Russian ammo, but with tighter tolerance than the Russians to attain accuracy. I would not shoot heavy ball (200 Gr machine gun ammo) unless it's D throated, which almost all were except some of the M28/30s. Simo Hayha's M28/30 serial number 60974 sits in the Finnish Brigades memory room. His M28 (one that was lost) was an early conversion to M28/30 specs (see rear sights) but kept the front sight (makes it a 1932 M28/30). I never said they couldn't shoot it I just said it I just said the bullets were too big. Pre 39 Finnish rifles barrels were designed for a .309 bullet that is why they have a .3095 grove diameter, it is not recommended to shoot .311 bullets in those rifles. Post 39 Finnish rifles or pre 39 rifles with the D barrel stamp can use surplus with the .311 bullets, seeing as they have a .310 groove diameter. However, you still are going to have increased ware in the barrel from shooting a .311 bullet which is slightly too big for the Finish barrels primarily designed for the Finnish .310 bullets. Bullshit, Any "D" stamped (throated) Finn will shoot .311 bullets. Wether it's a .3082 (M28/30) up to .310 (M39) finn barrel. The only bullets that are a problem are the steel core ones. All M39's and almost all M27, M28 were "D" stamp throated. Not all M28/30 were throated and the ones that werent are highly sought after for their supurb accuracy with .308 bullets. You will never wear the barrel out shooting the larger bullets in fact it will last longer using oversized bullets, The Finns did extensive testing on this. The barrel throat burnout is the death of a barrel and amazingly enough a larger bullet decreases throat burnout (less gas blowby which eats out the barrel) and makes a longer living barrel. So, Finn barrels actually last much longer than Russian ones. You are showing your ignorance in barrel life mechanics. As am I. Didn't know that. Now a related question: How about non-"D" stamped M28s? You'd still want to know if it were a .308 barrel or not, wouldn't you? (Or just avoid steel-core bullets?) I have two of these beasts and was advised to slug the barrel before shooting them. I assume this has more to do with matching the bore to the bullet than throat size? As long as they chamber OK, the throat is OK? |
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Your going to have quite a hard time finding any Finnish mosins at the local gun shops, past few years they have getting scooped up by mosin collectors making them hard to find. Also one big problem with Finish mosins is your not suppose to use most of the surplus that is on the market in them. Most finish mosin's have a .3095 grove diameter v.s. the other mosins which have a .311. This means the .310-.311 bullets in most surplus ammo is too big for the barrel. As for that Chinese M44/T53 you might want to double check on that one. Sadly I haven't had the chance to test one seeing as they are one of the rarer M44s, but they are suppose to be decent quality. They are going for around $200 currently in rough shape as long as they are mostly matching. If your looking at a M44 might want to look for a Polish, been quite a few popping up on the market lately and they are very good quality. Otherwise a 91/30 is always a safe way to go, the round receivers are cheap enough you could get another one if the first isn't up to your liking. Are you insane ? Tell that to the Finns who used them with captured russian ammo to great effectiveness durring the Winter War. The only one that might have trouble is a M28/30 (What Simo Hayha used) that has a .308 Bore and even those are fine if they are "D" stamp Throated as long as it's not steel core. The M27, M28, and M39 were designed around shooting the Russian ammo, but with tighter tolerance than the Russians to attain accuracy. I would not shoot heavy ball (200 Gr machine gun ammo) unless it's D throated, which almost all were except some of the M28/30s. Simo Hayha's M28/30 serial number 60974 sits in the Finnish Brigades memory room. His M28 (one that was lost) was an early conversion to M28/30 specs (see rear sights) but kept the front sight (makes it a 1932 M28/30). I never said they couldn't shoot it I just said it I just said the bullets were too big. Pre 39 Finnish rifles barrels were designed for a .309 bullet that is why they have a .3095 grove diameter, it is not recommended to shoot .311 bullets in those rifles. Post 39 Finnish rifles or pre 39 rifles with the D barrel stamp can use surplus with the .311 bullets, seeing as they have a .310 groove diameter. However, you still are going to have increased ware in the barrel from shooting a .311 bullet which is slightly too big for the Finish barrels primarily designed for the Finnish .310 bullets. Bullshit, Any "D" stamped (throated) Finn will shoot .311 bullets. Wether it's a .3082 (M28/30) up to .310 (M39) finn barrel. The only bullets that are a problem are the steel core ones. All M39's and almost all M27, M28 were "D" stamp throated. Not all M28/30 were throated and the ones that werent are highly sought after for their supurb accuracy with .308 bullets. You will never wear the barrel out shooting the larger bullets in fact it will last longer using oversized bullets, The Finns did extensive testing on this. The barrel throat burnout is the death of a barrel and amazingly enough a larger bullet decreases throat burnout (less gas blowby which eats out the barrel) and makes a longer living barrel. So, Finn barrels actually last much longer than Russian ones. You are showing your ignorance in barrel life mechanics. As am I. Didn't know that. Now a related question: How about non-"D" stamped M28s? You'd still want to know if it were a .308 barrel or not, wouldn't you? (Or just avoid steel-core bullets?) I have two of these beasts and was advised to slug the barrel before shooting them. I assume this has more to do with matching the bore to the bullet than throat size? As long as they chamber OK, the throat is OK? Regular M28's are .3095 only the M28/30's were .3082 (M28/30 were set up as Target Rifles, one of the reasons Simo Hayha did so well  ). Just stay away from Steel core and you are typically fine with anything D stamped. Some report their non D stamped M28/30's can handle .311 bullets after 500 plus rounds, but I consider using anything other than handloaded .308 bullets in a M28/30 a waste of accuracy.
The D stamp means it was "throated" to handle oversized bullets. |
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