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Posted: 6/11/2003 8:54:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 9:56:47 AM EDT by 00_buckshot]
I just bought a 10/22 for plinking and gopher hunting. It is the standard model with blue metal and wood stock. I have a Bushnell 3-9x32mm for a scope. Now I haven't tried every ammo but plan to do as much research as I can before I decide to upgrade. At 50 yrds it sometimes will shoot a 1" group with 3 shots, but that is very rare, and sometimes it is all over the place for no known reason. It usually stays within a 5" circle at 50 yrds on the really bad groups. I'd say on average I'm getting 3" groups at 50 yrds. The ammo I've used so far has been:

1. American Eagle 38gr hollow points
2. Remington Cyclones
3. Winchester Wildcats 40gr round nose
4. CCI Stingers 32gr hollow points
New ammo tested on 06/13/03:
5. CCI Standard Velocity 40gr round nose
6. CCI Minimag 36gr HP
7. Federal Classic 40gr High Velocity
8. Federal Gold Medal 40gr round nose


I've had the tightest group with the Stingers but because their velocity is so much higher than standard and even high velocity rounds I have to make significant adjustments to the scope to get them on target. What other ammos should I try that won't break the bank? I guess what I'm trying to say is with good ammo what kind of groups can I expect at 50 and 100 yrds? If I decide to upgrade to a good target barrel and get a trigger job can I expect this rifle to shoot 1 moa @ 100 yrds if I do my part? Thanks for all the help.

06/13/03 - Range Report:
I tried the four (4) new types of ammo listed above in red. All shots were taken at 25 yards from a sandbag rest with the scope set at 5x. All groups consist of 10 shots per group. The inner circle of the target has a diameter of 1" and the outer circle has a diameter of 4". The other two circles consist of a 2" and 3" diameter. See link below for pictures of the targets. Please note on the Winchester Wildcats grouping I was making small scope adjustments inbetween each 10 shot group.

By far and away the best groups I got were with the CCI Standard Velocity rounds. I was very impressed with these rounds and will be using them on a regular basis. For roughly $.04 per round they are not the cheapest but definitely not the most expensive either. Second was the CCI Minimags. These grouped fairly well and would be useful for hunting small game. The Federal Gold Medal were a huge disappointment. The groups were large and not even consistent. The Federal Classics grouped alright for a high velocity round but still was not all that impressed. The worst of the bunch were the Winchester Wildcats. These cost roughly $.02 per round and are not even worth that in my opinion. These are the rounds I was trying to sight my rifle in with when I felt that it had some accuracy issues. Also the American Eagle 38gr HP's are horrible as well. CCI seems to make very good and consistent ammo. I will be trying their Green Tag and Velocitors next week. The Stingers also grouped quite well for a hyper-velocity round. Please let me know what you think of the pics and tell me if you think my 10/22 should still be grouping better than this. Also if anyone knows I would be curios to know what the trigger breaks at on an out-of-the-box 10/22 standard such as mine. I still plan to have some upgrades done to help improve the accuracy of some of the mediocre rounds. Once again thanks for all your help. I will keep you posted with more ammo grouping results at longer distances when I get a chance.


photos.yahoo.com/bc/lickdogsack/lst?.dir=/25yd_Groups&.view=t

Let me know if they don't work.

Link Posted: 6/11/2003 9:05:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2003 9:06:49 PM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
Is the barrel v-block tightened? How about your scope setup? The 10/22 won't be a tackdriver right off the bat, but it should shoot a little better than that.

I'm going to recommend (as I always do) Randy Meeks of CPC. He can machine a few items, like the barrel and bolt, for a fraction of what people will pay for new barrels and pretty Volquartsen geedunk and REALLY make your 10/22 shine (complete tuneup for $173 with return shipping).

As far as ammunition, I haven't seen anything that gives significantly poor accuracy (though some brands will always shoot better than others). Based on what you've posted, I'm really inclined to think loose scope mount, loose barrel, etc.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 9:13:33 PM EDT
My son has a 10/22 and I can shoot much better than 5" groups at 50 yds with iron sights. Maybe there is something more to your problem than just ammo. I would check w/Ruger and see if they will take a look at it before spending $173 on a tune-up. That's probably about what the rifle cost you in the first place.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 10:36:38 PM EDT
The 10/22. The possibilities are almost endless, but in it's standard form it's just a plinker... The barrels aren't great, the triggers SUCK, and the stock often degrades accuracy. That being said, I love them... They just need work.

As Jim said, check the V-block screws. They should be tightened to 20 INCH-pounds. (Take-down screw is 30 inch-pounds).

It seems like Ruger barrels are hit or miss as far as accuracy goes (pun intended). Some report great improvement after simply removing the barrel band. This often leads to changing stocks or modifying the original one (as I did).

If this doesn't work and you start looking at new barrels, I can recommend Green Mountain as the best bang for the buck. I haven't formally grouped mine, still working out some bugs in my trigger group, but I was hitting a broom handle at 50 yards 100% of the time.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 11:13:00 PM EDT
Pull the scope off and shoot iron sights a bit. That'll let you know if the problem is in the scope. As far as the stingers go, Highest velocity rounds RARELY get the best accuracy. My 10/22T had an advisory against them.

My 10/22's generally eat anything I feed them, even stingers in the standard model. The only ammo they refuse to group with is the Bulk Packed Federal stuff.

All of them need trigger jobs out of the box.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 12:07:43 AM EDT

I would check w/Ruger and see if they will take a look at it before spending $173 on a tune-up. That's probably about what the rifle cost you in the first place.

You completely missed this point if you think I was advising a tuneup to cure his problems.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 6:45:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2003 7:09:39 AM EDT by 00_buckshot]
Jim,
What exactly does Randy do for $173?

Edited to say: Never mind I figured it out on my own.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 7:49:26 AM EDT
Check out the website... highly recommended at www.rimfirecentral.com. If I have the funds I will send my Ruger in at the end of the summer.

Looks like guarenteed accuarcy too.

=)
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:58:26 PM EDT
My 10/22's start dancin' all over the place if the action screw gets loose. I know it sounds simple, but that sometimes gets over looked.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 9:05:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

I would check w/Ruger and see if they will take a look at it before spending $173 on a tune-up. That's probably about what the rifle cost you in the first place.

You completely missed this point if you think I was advising a tuneup to cure his problems.



That I did.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 9:15:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 9:38:22 PM EDT

FWIW--me too.

(SIGH) Well, for starters, 00_buckshot and I have been exchanging IMs about upgrading his 10/22.

Second, if anyone had paid any attention to his uses (i.e., gopher hunting), you would've seen his accuracy requirements. They are slightly more stringent than for an out-of-the-box 10/22.

I have been a firm believer in this line of thinking for a number of years; the most used caliber in anyone's collection is the .22 LR. Greater accuracy is actually demanded from a .22 LR than from any other caliber (as in small game). That being the case, why not invest a little bit of money in a decent sighting setup and some accurization work?

I've tried garbage from Volquartsen. In the end all I had was a nifty looking 10/22 with a bunch of CRAP bolted on to it. Match-grade accuracy in a 10/22 isn't expensive, but it requires machining and labor just like everything else.

Obviously, if he can't get his 10/22 on paper, an accurization tuneup won't solve it. However, once he locates his current troubles, accurization can make that rifle REALLY sing.

Savvy?
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 1:58:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 5:32:44 PM EDT
What size targets are those?

Your groups definitely tightened up with the CCIs, but could be better (based on my assumption that the bull on those targets is about 1"). Did you try removing the barrel band? Check the v-block? Check the take-down screw?
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:40:02 PM EDT
No, I did not try removing the barrel band but everything else was tight and stayed tight through out the 180 rounds of ammo I shot through it. I will try removing the band next trip to the range. Could that really affect the accuracy that much however? I ask this question with complete ingnorance about barrels. I disclosed the size of the targets in my range report update. They are 1, 2, 3 and 4" rings. Once again, thank you for the help.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 8:47:10 PM EDT
Looking back, you did have the target sizes. I guess a skimmed that part

The barrel band and stock can and will make a huge difference on accuracy. The worst complaints I have seen are from the 10/22s with the international stock. In general, free-floated barrels are going to be the most accurate. You don't really want to free-float the 10/22 because it puts too much stress on the reciever, but the less contact between barrel and stock, the better.

I hear some people go the other way and bed the entire barrel. That may work too, but I don't know much about it.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:26:14 PM EDT
I have two 10/22's... both a good shooters. One is the first rifle I ever owned, a standard carbine, that my dad bought me. The other is the first rifle I ever purchased on my own when I turned 18-- a 10/22T/TS. Limited edition with a "ruger" laser engraved thumbhole stock on it.

Both shoot great, edge going to the T of course. The T will group 3/8" at 50 yards and around 1.5 inches at 100 yards for a ten shot group, depending on the ammo I feed it. The carbine will make a ragged 1" hole at 50 yards with a box of the Federal bulk pack and the cheap red dot sight I mounted on it for running jacks.

Keep trying different types of ammo and see what works best. Try Winchester Power Point-- a 40gr HP at 1280 FPS, I've always had good luck with this load in EVERYTHING.

One other thing... on a rimfire rifle used under 100 yards, with most 3-9x variables having a fixed paralax setting of around 80-100 yards, anything less and you'll get paralax problems. This means when your shooting at 25 yards on 9x the crosshairs may shift (along with point of impact)with even slight variations in cheekweld on the stock. Best to use a adjustable objective scope on a rimfire if you want top accuracy.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:05:21 PM EDT
Try a different scope. Parralex will kill you at rimfire ranges.
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 2:10:11 PM EDT
To Jim Dandy,

I clicked on the link in your posting about CT Precision Chambering, and a web page opened that gave me a phone number and address. However, I wanted to send an email to them with a shopping list of work and some questions. Do they have an email address?

Thanks for your help.

S4F
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 11:00:31 AM EDT
I bought a 10-22 that already had a Shilen heavy barrel and a trigger job, then I bedded it and put a 3x9 Leupold on it.

Mistakes: the Leupold has parallax at 50 - get a rimfire scope! Also, don't use rubber bands to keep a rifle and stock together while bedding - something in the rubber etched the wood finish permanently, and I have (had) the pretty wood!

It shoots best with CCI standard, and I've read another report besides yours that also agreed with us. If I remember correctly, that rifle had a Volquartsen barrel on it. Interesting that the favorite ammo was the same in all 3 cases with different barrels.

Mine shoots under 1 moa at 50 yds.

I have no experience to back this opinion, but have to agree with Shadowblade on Ruger barrels - pot luck. With anything mass-produced, quality will range from "good" to "acceptable".
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 6:13:28 PM EDT

Mistakes: the Leupold has parallax at 50 - get a rimfire scope!

Or get the parallax reset. Leupold offers this at a nominal fee. I've done it before, works great if you're looking for a scope in a certain configuration.



To Jim Dandy,

I clicked on the link in your posting about CT Precision Chambering, and a web page opened that gave me a phone number and address. However, I wanted to send an email to them with a shopping list of work and some questions. Do they have an email address?

Thanks for your help.

S4F


Damn if I can recall Randy's email (I had it on an old hard drive). He will respond to PMs over at Rimfirecentral.com and he'll answer the telephone if called. The last few times I've contacted him, he's been better about answering the telephone than responding via email (I talked to him for nearly an hour last week- really a great guy).
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 1:22:19 PM EDT
CCI Stingers use a longer case, so in match chambers like a ruger 1022T its not advised to use this ammo. has nothing to do with velocity.

if your using the stock ruger scope mount make sure its tight, mine was loose and i was all over the paper.

check the muzzle for burrs.

you could even have the barrel trimmed down to 16" and ferget the front sight if your using a scope and have a target crown put on.

ive heard to shoot the gun withOUT the barrel band and this could improve accuracy, you also really dont need it since its not on some of the 1022 models like the "T" and others. this is supposed to help free float the barrel.

have someone else shoot the gun, it could be YOU that cant shoot it.
prolly isnt but it happens.
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