I’ve been messing around with this kit. So far I found it to be way more comfortable than my old alice gear even though it weighs more. I think I may switch out the under armor yoke for a padded yoke. The other issue is where to place an ifak. I tried swapping out one of the gp/water bottle pouches for an ifak pouch but it seemed to affect the balance.
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Yoke

Hip pad

I have been eyeballing this exact pad since stumbling in here. I keep getting hung up on:

Is it too hot/absorbent?
How does the sizing work out?

But I've added this to a cart multiple times and keep walking away each time.

The way it rides I haven’t had any issues with over absorption and I sweat a lot. I did a tab with a friend in the spring but I don’t  remember the hip pad being overly soaked.

For sizing I have a 34ish inch waist and I initially bought a medium and it was too big. Ended up with a small and it fit perfectly. Measure your hips point to point around the back to get the right size. Ideally the pad should not go much past the points of your hips. I have a size medium pad that is unused if anyone is looking for one.

ETA…One other note…I hate velcro so I chose to remove velcro from the water bottle pouches and opted for UW Gear pouches on the right hand side of the belt.

Put one of the closed magazine pouches on the Left side of the belt, 2nd magazine pouch from the end.  Not the first one.  Put your IFAK in there in one of these:

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-tst-pull-out-ifak-insert/55879

Tactical Tailor makes one too, but the Varusteleka ones work better.

This is why I prefer triple mag magazine pouches on belt kit btw.  Because you end up using one for your IFAK, and you can always cinch them down to just hold 2 magazines if you want that.

(On a side note.  I wish that UW would make triple magazine pouches designed for belt kit.  With little loops on the side to attach cinch-down bungies.  And 2 columns of MOLLE as an option on the sides of the pouches to attach other pouches.  We wouldn't have to buy British gear if someone here in the US started making british compatible kit.  I know Diz is working on getting something up and running.  But hey. I just figure magazine pouches would be an easy thing to spin up as an option.  And I like UW's stuff, especially his pull tabs.)

Alternatively, you can get a small fanny pack (helikon makes a good one in good camo patterns that isn't much.  They have them on amazon.)  and run your IFAK in there, in front of your hips or spun around and resting on top of your rear pouches if you aren't carrying your ruck.  You can also put E&E bits in the second pocket.

Someone who's wanting to try this stuff out should pick this up.  You can get surplus yokes and pouches you need here in the USA.  The belt is what's hard to find here in the USA.....

That’s awesome I wasn’t aware of that. Bookmarked for when they are in stock. Love Varusteleka. The water bottle pouches came from them.

Oh yea, Varusteleka is legit good people.  They don't charge much for overseas shipping either, unlike everyone else.  And it gets here fast.  They have british belt kit compatible pouches in stock off and on.  The Dutch MOLLE stuff works with this too btw.  They have Dutch surplus utility pouches for $10 each right now.  If you're rocking the M81 hotness, those dutch pouches match up pretty well.  The Dutch MOLLE pouches fit 3 AR magazines too.

That IFAK insert is exactly what you are looking for.  It's almost a must with this kind of setup.

Yup. If you haven’t tried their wool long johns they are the shit and usually way cheaper than the Smartwool etc.

Thank you for the insight! I appreciate it. Their sizing suggestions and measurements just weren't jiving with the suggested fit (hip to hip) and my PALS row counts from the pictures.

Meh, weight is negligible. Compared to a loaded thirty rounder, it’s about 1.5 pound more.  It’s not like the difference between a SAW with a 100 round nutsack versus a 200 round box.

I would replace one of the mag pouch contents with one of those mag pouch med inserts, personally, if you were looking for a place for med.

Good looking kit!

So, the PLCE kit I’m building will have a buttpack as opposed to my other one that is just utility pouches. While it is a personal preference, I’m sure there is a more reasonable explanation…I just don’t know the origins of the British design.

I do think the British PLCE concept balances easier than the typical ALICE/LCE-type system. You really need to focus on your load bearing strategy and balance more with the standard LCE concept. The yoke and suspension on the British system is more forgiving IMHO. But, why buttpack over a couple extra utility pouches?

The traditional buttpack was a great way to carry additional sustainment gear if you have to drop your ruck. The size helps for bulkier items and if your belt system is fitted properly, it’s essentially a lumbar pack.

The British utility pouches are smaller, which restricts bulkier items. The benefit is a better balanced “system”. I also think that with the capability to combine and add the two sustainment pouches from the Bergen pack and make a pseudo assault pack, you and address the bulkier items and keep your belt kit more suited to other field necessities.

Six one way, half a dozen the other way. I’ll get a chance to do a side by side when my MOLLE hippo pad shows up…

Forgot to add, I’m a little less concerned about a buttpack-sized pouch with my utility pouch setup. I found that the Eagle Industries Yute pack fits perfectly on the MOLLE short-backed Bergen and can quickly be detached and use as a patrol/E&E pack with those larger essentials…


Looks great!

So, the Jay Jay’s setup is a little different. Both of the 3xmag pouches are on the left and it has a large “commander’s admin” pouch on the right. I’m likely going to end up with a med insert tray (I have something at home) and the Varusteleka one looks pretty decent. I just need to decide on using one of the mag pouches or making room in the large admin pouch. All the Jay Jay’s pouches have webbing on the side, so my plan is to just put a CAT on each side for access.

I’m using the sewn-on pouches for my Jay Jay’s rig and while it limits

I’ll be building a similar rig on a Jay Jay’s MOLLE hippo belt, so I’ll have more flexibility with pouch selections.


I can’t speak to the pad above, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the Jay Jay’s pad. It doesn’t absorb sweat and drain well. Hot is relative to the user, but the location is less noticeable than most chest rigs that trap heat. My concern was more on minimizing absorption and this does quite well.

Sizing is important. With most battle belts, you have gear creeping around to the front for easy access. With the PLCE kit concept, the main pouches and hippo pad shouldn’t go much further forward than your hip joints. When fitted properly there’s very little interference with running, squatting/kneeling, or crawling in the prone.


A shorter profile would be better for patrolling and while I haven’t thought much about doing it with a D60, it’s not a bad idea. Our security guys operated with a D60 inserted and 30’s for their combat load. The D60 provided them less to worry about during initial engagements or if they needed to break contact quickly.

ROCK6

That's the trick - finding the right size with the desired features. I don't mind if the 4 utility pouches are sewn on, but I want the wings to be PALS so I can choose the ammunition pouches I like. I don't mind if it's all PALS, but I want to make sure it can take the roll pin buckle as I want fast and easy re-sizing.

It's just a lot of going back and forth trying to figure out which one will be the best compromise since I am not finding exactly it.

Yeah I get the idea of having MOLLE on the wings, I can make do with how the sewn on kit is set up, but I would almost prefer the option of swapping out the Commander's Admin Pouch with two 3xmag pouches for exactly the purpose of adding a medical insert.

I have the Aussi "plastic" cobra buckle and it's still pretty flexible with sizing, just very fast to open up for air or quick on/off. I didn't think I would like it, but it's not too bad. The challenge is daily weather changes in the spring and fall where you may have to add an insulation and outer layer in the morning and then pack them away at noon; you want an easy way to adjust your belt circumference by a few inches!

ROCK6

Yea, I prefer the buttpacks too.  I want to be able to carry a poncho, poncho liner, some cordage, and some food in my buttpack as the minimum.  Can't really do all that with the utility pouches.





I have a Hill People Gear Tarahumara that I can throw on the back of my pack.  Pull that off with more sustainment stuff and water.  Same idea.

This is why I've just settled on running 4 x mag pouches.  2 x for mags, 1 x for IFAK, and the 4th for more mags or pistol (with kydex holster paracorded into it) or admin stuff.  I've just learned to make everything fit into a mag pouch.  It's kinda modular in it's own way.  Just make it fit in a mag pouch.




I've got those plastic cobra buckles on most of my backpacks at this point.  It's worth having them.  They work really well.

As for adjusting your belt, you could also go with an oldschool ALICE belt extender.  You could make one super cheap, even one that is adjustable for how long you want it to be.  Kinda like the one below, but with the same buckles you are using on your belt kit.

That Is a wise choice and molle instead of fixed ammo pouches Is a solution that Is offered by manufacturers, the "meat" of the webbing being the utility pouches sewn to the belt and pad. Anyway keep in mind that every Commander pouch offered has an integrated divider to set It up as a double ammo pouch (2*3 mags, 2*4 on the larger Dixies Corner One). You May obtain A very similar result with surplus Eagle 200 round pouches.


Plastic cobra Buckle is the best thing, the whole webbing being metal free now, secondary fragmentation from blast being a very concerning thing for soldiers. But most important, no metal=no rust=no need to oil metal parts.

Many interesting responses.

This is the one i use. mostly reserve training (mostly medical), some SAR training, LARPing. It is a 2nd hand sewn altogether Dragon Supplies Assault Rig, Commander pouch variant. It is an old pic, now it has also shock cord on the utilities.

It is more or less the base version without optionals, no pvc lined or storm hood on the utility pouches, no antenna ports or extra small cam cream/ sniper rifle mag pouches attached on the utilities, no helmet clip (i added it). Only option is the fixed female buckles on the pouches which help a lot for one hand closing.. i Would have liked to have the d rings to hang a dump pouch under the mag pouches.

Not modular but it works well for my light to medium duty needs, can easily put a poncho roll over the utilities, wears well with a medium size patrol pack and a medic pack. Works resaonably either under or over armor. You surely feel the pressure of the two triglides on the shoulder straps if you wear it under, but it is partially offset by the fact that few things are carried on the armor. The specific under armor yoke doesn't have them, but as a compromise you lose adjustability.

Speaking of Brit smocks and those they inspired, while I've a Flecktarn Gore-Tex Poncho, I gave both my Fleck- and Wustetarn cotton jackets the same waterproofing treatment as I did the MTP smock. No need for the Gore-Tex anymore, and the hooded jackets are way softer.

What waterproofing treatment are you using?

Come to the Western US and we'll show you what difficult mountains look like.

Also, do you have any leads on British DPM and Desert DPM smocks? I want one at least to go with my MTP smock.

Star Brite. Get it off slamazon. I'm on my second bottle. I've used it on cotton, poly/cotton blends, canvas, nylon and leather. Put simply: it works.

Hmmm. Think it would work on a backpack?  I know there would still be water ingress from the zippers, but I’m looking to repell  water from getting caught in the rain on a hit or something to that effect.

Good place to order from too.  Shipping is cheap.

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/british-cs95-windproof-smock-desert-dpm-surplus/20004

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/british-cs95-windproof-smock-dpm-surplus/29501

@lew

How long does it last?

@AIWB

Make sure you use the right one.

The website says:

Star brite Waterproofing is compatible with most quality outdoor fabrics including; nylon, canvas, finished leather, and acrylics.
However, some economy materials like polyester and urethane-backed fabrics are not compatible with most solvents, so please
check the material before use. Also note that solvent-based products can affect the adhesive glue used on some carpeting, and
can further depreciate heavily sun damaged fabric. Star brite offers a solvent-free formula, 'SeaSafe Waterproofing' as an odorless alternative.

No offense, but I use the chems from Nikwax for cleaning and waterproofing.  The specific chems are designed for different materials, be they wool, fleece, cotton, and/or nylon.  A good wash, again with the proper chem, is basic preparation for waterproofing.  For impermeable materials like pack cloth, and for GoreTex, I use DWR after laundering with proper chems.  McNett offers some other useful items, such as patches, zipper lube, and other stuff.

If the item is a pack, or an outer shell, I spray the outside.  If the item is cotton/fleece/wool, etc. I use a wash-in type of waterproofing, and not a spray.

For example, when laundering my Austrian milsurp Gore-Tex field jacket I use a specific GT-compatible laundering detergent and DWR on the outside; when laundering my very similar USGI NyCo Field jacket (no GoreTex) I launder it with Woolite and use wash-in waterproofing.  

Amazon Nikwax Store

Tutorial


Some observations:

(1) A properly laundered and "waterproofed" garment is no substitute for a dedicated rain garment.

(2) I suggest most any pack can leak to some degree, particularly those with exposed zippers and/or lots of "sew-throughs" as found on packs with PALS webbing attached.  There are ways to greatly reduce such "leakage", a simple but laborious process.

I’m trying to make the “utility pouches” concept work and I have some smaller tarps that will work, but there’s no way you’re getting a poncho liner in one of those pouches! The Velocity Systems butt pack isn’t really that big and a poncho liner would likely consume the whole compartment, but you can add in insulation layers, wind shirt and a small poncho or tarp system.


Funny you posted this extended. I used one way back in the day when temps fluctuated  because it was a PITA to manually adjust the old LBE pistol belt! In fact, I have a battle belt from EMDOM, and I had them make me a similar extender with their buckle system


Thanks for this photo, I didn't even look to see if the divider can be positioned like that; the way it arrived is that it's "split" lengthwise with the divider...

I'm working my way around the belt kit...left to right, haven't really filled out my admin pouch yet, it's not something I've used in the past on my Line-two kit. Most of my admin kit was kept in my BDU/ACU cargo pockets...



Nice setup, same as my Jay Jays. I'm building a second one (with some Velocity Systems jungle pouches) on a MOLLE Jay Jay's hippo belt. I have the slimmer six-point MOLLE yoke; got to say, it stabilizes very well. I like your mods you mentioned

ROCK6

Thanks for the info Lew.  

For adding a poncho liner, what about a “bum roll” pouch?  Or for that matter, this might be a good way to incorporate a Molle Waist pack.  If it just held a woobie, it might compress enough between a pack and the utility pouch shelf to be comfortable. Or since it isn’t really a lot of weight, maybe extend the belt and wrap it around the outer edge of the utility pouches.  Although it would make your ass end bigger.  Just thinking out loud here.

From ROCK6:  "Funny you posted this extende[r]. I used one way back in the day when temps fluctuated  because it was a PITA to manually adjust the old LBE pistol belt! In fact, I have a battle belt from EMDOM, and I had them make me a similar extender with their buckle system..."

I've heard the ALICE "Extender" referred to as a "Kovatch Clip", but no matter.  Still around; search "pistol belt extender".

Seen them in both styles of plastic GI pistol belt buckles, and in various lengths.  As noted, highly useful when donning/doffing heavy outer garments.

It's possible to make these in most any length desired with a couple of appropriate belt buckles, a couple or three appropriate plastic tri-glide buckles, and a longer-than-you think-necessary length of webbing.  No sewing required, and if user/maker is clever, can have a fairly wide adjustment range.

You can actually cram two poncho liners in the MOLLE waist pack, I got one hanging from the MOLLE medium ruck we picked up earlier in the year.  The MOLLE waist pack is actually pretty freaking giant.

If you're running a butt pack, you can just roll up the poncho liner and slide it under the lid top straps.

If you don't have a butt pack, it might be the perfect fit for a little extra 1" webbing and a couple fastex buckles.  You could lash it to the belt, pouches, or even the yoke straps or suspenders.

I have a lot to learn about this system of load-carriage.

From what I understand, the pouches on the rear of the belt (those supporting the pack) must retain their shape in order to support the pack when the pack is present.

Adding to or subtracting from such rear "shelf" pouches might be problematic for proper pack support, the weight of the pack supported by "solid' "shelf" pouches mounted to a very good load bearing waistbelt.

Or do I have this wrong?

That's why I like the buttpack.  I have a Bushcraft Outfitters multicam poncho that's smaller and lighter than the USGI ones, and a poncho liner that uses thinsulate insulation, which, again, is smaller and lighter.  I can get both in the butt pack with room for a little more. Though it doesn't leave MUCH room - which is why I'm looking at those british poncho rolls.  I'd LIKE to be able to put my poncho and a HPG Serape on the load, along with a day of food and a handful of other stuff (booboo kit and such)

This was covered in the posts above.  Basically, yes, you have it right.  But because of what you carry in there, it doesn't really matter.

I was stationed in Panama when we still had troops there and have been to Jungle school three times. The LCE system works well in the jungle.

Jungles are hot, and your body needs to breathe. Think water and ammo. Take only what you need and nothing else. Panama was very thick dense triple canopy jungle and very hot.

H harness suspenders, belt, ammo pouches, water, buttpack with socks, powder, tshirt and a MRE.

Rucksack: Outer pockets; jungle hammock, space blanket, poncho and poncho liner. Strobe light, heat tabs, and other essential stuff.

2qt and e tool strapped to the sides

Inside ruck: change of BDU’s. More socks, MRE’s, and anything else you needed.

I have all the same and plan to do a little experimentation. While not multicam, I do have an OD Kifaru Scout butt pack and the Eagle Industries (tan/coyote-ish) buttpack, but with are larger than Velocity Systems. I also want to compare it to the Mersh buttpack and see how things fit.



Not much has really changed except for materials, but this is always good to hear from those who’ve done it. I never got a slot for Jungle School, but spent several months in South America as part of a ODA task force and our entry/exit point was Panama.

Ironically, I had switched to using a two-piece Tactical Tailor MAV over my LCE stuff as our jungle environment was mostly doing helicopter patrols (it was an observer mission), and we were living in a compound that was at a higher elevation and the headwater area of the Amazon basin. I found that if I lowered it down my chest, it kind of served as the British PLCE without the preferred waist belt for stability and heavier loads. That said, it wasn’t too stifling, and being open in the front, you could open it up when flying to get cooled down pretty quick.

I think your highlight of the hammock shouldn’t go unnoticed. I’m a hammock backpacker, and I would never venture into a jungle environment with out a hammock system.  I recall hiking down to a waterfall one morning by myself and simply stopping on the trail and observing the surroundings. Everything was moving! Insects, spiders, lizards, frogs, snakes, birds…an extremely active area. Yeah, if I’m going to catch a few zzz’s, I’ll be hanging a hammock (and using a rain fly in the rainy season).

Thanks for the feedback!

ROCK6

If this would be your choice of approaching patrols in hot humid weather then the velocity jungle kit would be a good choice. Same concept, uodated materials.

Never went anywhere without my hammock and poncho. Ants were a major issue in Panama. There would be any trails up to 18 inches wide and they would crawl over you if you were in their path. Only thing I was worried about in the jungle was the frogs (very poisonous) and African killer bees, and black palm cause that shit hurt. Gloves are friend.

HPG has a nifty buttpack-like thing, too.

The hammock is a hot tip. I can see how it might not be useable at any time on a patrol, but it is a wonderful, lightweight, packable option that gets you off the nasty, muddy, buggy ground.

If you have trees, you should have a little hammock.

They do, I have one of their belts, it's another consideration as well.  

Here's some picks (day off, no tropical storm, and still waiting for the rain!):

Jay Jay's full kit with plenty of add-ons. I'm still playing with this one it's the bees knees:




I've added (likely won't keep all of them) some single MTP surplus rifle mag pouches, grenade pouch, EMDOM strobe pouch, MTP surplus smoke grenade pouches (perfect for my smokes).

If you like the two cup NATO Pattern 58 canteen system, avoid the Velocity Systems canteen pouch, just get their General Purpose pouch. Right now my canteen pouch is just holding a pullout medical tray...

Still awaiting my airborne 6-point harness, but here's "my" British/VS Jungle kit:







Jay Jay's Hippo belt.
Most pouches (including the buttpack) are Velocity Systems
BFG mag pouch
One Tigris pistol pouch

The buttpack has a 50-degree custom down quilt and Beyond Clothing Gore-tex rain jacket stuffed in just for structure.

For shits and giggles, the Russian Mersh load bearing kit. This is actually a solid seteup with some flexibility. It's a little odd, but quite solid for AK mags and some add on pouches (the buttpack is stuffed with a Kifaru Woobie):



Just to keep my international experimentation going, a Platatac chest rig:



The kit evolution continues...

ROCK6

The problem with the GI-Issue VN-era  nylon "jungle hammocks" was that the nylon weave of the "bed" of the hammock was very "tight" in order to deter insects from biting through the hammock bed and into the sleeping user.  Fabric was so tight that it allowed water to "pool" inside the hammock.

Cresson Kearney's (book mentioned above) original jungle hammock was made out of water-repellent cotton and could allow some reasonable amount of "Breathing" of user's back.  In order to do this, the bed of the hammock had a false bottom which prevented insects from attacking the user.

This essential feature was deleted by Gov't bean-counters in later iterations of the GI hammock.  Unsure if this feature is included in modern hammocks, but it should be, along with a fairly loose and breathable weave of nylon fabric for the bed.

Sold-off the WW II item because it was getting so "fragile" that it was a "Collector's piece" by then: still in very useable condition.

I've looked at the current offerings of hammock makers, and I'm not at all convinced that any of them ever read the "Jungle Hammock" comments in Kearney's book. Kearny invented the "modern" Jungle hammock.

Required "Expertise" level qualification:  I have owned and used original WW II GI hammocks, and VN-era hammocks

Look into the DIY backpacking hammock world.  They are relatively easy to make and you can pick your own fabric.  Pick one that doesn't have the waterproof coating.  You can also do a double layer, with the bottom one slightly looser than the one you actually lay on, as an offset so that bugs can't bite through the sleeping layer.

Coleman's surplus is running a 15% off discount code for the next couple days - FLASH15

They have the short-back British PLCE packs for $39, before the discount. And surplus british utility pouches for $10 before discount.

If that's so, then might worth investigating.  I'm not equipped to make my own components.  As far as other manufactured hammocks, I remain skeptical.  I admit that I am NOT all-knowing about the Hammock world.  Useful comments are invited, perhaps in another thread.

I was also going to say that double layers are a fairly common feature these days, both for an insulating layer (air pocket slows the sweeping away of body heat), and biting insect protection. The con of course being extra weight and bulk.

I haven't kept track of the duration like I should have, but I haven't had to reapply, even on my high-use nylon gear- chest rigs and bush belt rig (setup like a lot of the kits in this thread- MOLLE pouches on an HSGI Sure Grip Belt). I put that on a couple years ago. My OD Green Bundeswehr cotton pack is still holding up, and I did that one about four years ago. That's canvas with a vinyl bottom- in other words: a sponge if untreated. Granted, I'm not using this stuff every day, and I have enough crap to cycle through a bunch of different setups, but it holds up well, and at least doesn't degrade in storage.



Happy to help.

As for the poncho roll, if I'm not carrying a pack, I clip the poncho roll to the suspender straps and the roll's side clips attach to bottle pouches mounted on the belt on which I have a paracord loop. So, yes, it does stick out a bit further, but I don't have a problem moving through dense bush. I could wear a pack on top of the roll, if required.