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Posted: 12/5/2017 12:55:48 AM EDT
SO I really need to get a short barrel 5.56 gun with some sights that don't suck like the M85 PAP :D It couldn't stop M855A1, but it did stop M855 out of an SBR. I didn't have my SBR AK on hand to test. M193 out of a 22" barrel stopped cold. 300 WM, 150gr FMJ, ate holes in it :D
 @AR500Armor Level III Model 1078 Torture Test! |
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Posted: 12/6/2017 2:27:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Man, that SS190...
...Question is: How much stopping power does it have? It always penetrates soft armor and UHMWPE-only hard plates, but it tends to leave nothing more than a little needle-like puncture in the clay behind the armor, which would seem to indicate that it's not capable of doing much damage. |
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Posted: 12/6/2017 3:13:20 PM EDT
[#2]
M855 at 3100FPS It's about 1300 foot pounds, roughly comprable with M193 in terms of just KE. The issue is that poly plates use frictive breaking to stop a bullet, the SS109 steel core penetrates, while the jacket and lead portion are stopped. That steel penetrator is still capeable of making a lethal wound. Weather or nor a plate can stop it is pretty velocity dependant with rounds at about 3000 FPS being stopped but those just 100 FPS faster consistently penetrating the plate.
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Posted: 12/6/2017 4:53:34 PM EDT
[#3]
The plate in the video did pretty much exactly what any UHMWPE-only plate would do.
Also, M855 only leaves a tiny hole in clay behind a PE plate because it didn't slow down or tumble on it's way through.  For a PE plate to stop M855 reliably, it needs to be approximately 11-12" thick, depending on the grade and type of PE.
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Posted: 12/6/2017 5:10:50 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 12/6/2017 8:59:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The plate in the video did pretty much exactly what any UHMWPE-only plate would do. Also, M855 only leaves a tiny hole in clay behind a PE plate because it didn't slow down or tumble on it's way through. For a PE plate to stop M855 reliably, it needs to be approximately 11-12" thick, depending on the grade and type of PE.SS190 is obviously a fantastic penetrator, generally much superior to M855/SS109, but its terminal ballistics in soft targets look godawful. Is there any data on the round's (very questionable) stopping power and lethality? |
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Posted: 12/6/2017 11:14:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was talking about SS190 -- the hardened-steel-tipped aluminum-cored round from FN, most often sold for the Five-Seven pistol and P90 PDW -- which seems to leave tiny holes everywhere, no matter what the situation. Our friend Buffman once uploaded a video on SS190 vs. a IIIa panel over a block of ballistic gel. The round penetrated the panel without even slowing down & went for 12" through the gel before tumbling even once! SS190 is obviously a fantastic penetrator, generally much superior to M855/SS109, but its terminal ballistics in soft targets look godawful. Is there any data on the round's (very questionable) stopping power and lethality? I have fired maybe 6 rounds of SS190 at armor in my time. It went straight through PE and IIIA like air, so we stopped testing it altogether, since it was mostly a unicorn round anyway. |
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Posted: 12/7/2017 2:20:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The plate in the video did pretty much exactly what any UHMWPE-only plate would do. Also, M855 only leaves a tiny hole in clay behind a PE plate because it didn't slow down or tumble on it's way through. For a PE plate to stop M855 reliably, it needs to be approximately 11-12" thick, depending on the grade and type of PE. |
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Posted: 12/7/2017 2:39:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was talking about SS190 -- the hardened-steel-tipped aluminum-cored round from FN, most often sold for the Five-Seven pistol and P90 PDW -- which seems to leave tiny holes everywhere, no matter what the situation. Our friend Buffman once uploaded a video on SS190 vs. a IIIa panel over a block of ballistic gel. The round penetrated the panel without even slowing down & went for 12" through the gel before tumbling even once! SS190 is obviously a fantastic penetrator, generally much superior to M855/SS109, but its terminal ballistics in soft targets look godawful. Is there any data on the round's (very questionable) stopping power and lethality? |
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Posted: 12/7/2017 9:31:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was my first PE plate, so I wasn't sure what to expect. Given that AR500A is known for selling steel plates, and IMO "OK" Level IV plates, this PE plate is a departure from their normal line up. Good on them for selling an NIJ certified 06 plate. Thanks for the video. |
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Posted: 12/7/2017 10:01:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Understood and I wasn't being critical. I was just confirming that it behaved as a PE plate normally should - not better or worse. Thanks for the video.   Layer are there any places that sell any type of hybrid construction armor that will stop M855 other than ceramic/PE, or is that pretty much the only way to ensure M855 will be stopped?
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Posted: 12/7/2017 11:00:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Second video of a poly plate stopping 855 posted here.
 Thank you
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Posted: 12/7/2017 11:28:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Second video of a poly plate stopping 855 posted here. Thank you |
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Posted: 12/7/2017 11:36:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Layer are there any places that sell any type of hybrid construction armor that will stop M855 other than ceramic/PE, or is that pretty much the only way to ensure M855 will be stopped? |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:38:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Layer are there any places that sell any type of hybrid construction armor that will stop M855 other than ceramic/PE, or is that pretty much the only way to ensure M855 will be stopped?Steel over PE might do it but then you're talking a cost difference of between $10-15 per plate, on a plate that now retails $250+, so you shave off $15 but add 3 pounds and have a more "imperfect" strike face. Steel must be shaped by force while ceramic is formed and cooked. So there is no actual advantage or justification for making a steel/PE composite. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:51:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think tencate makes hybrid poly steel, and there was another one the AMI Tac3s 2016 & 2017 have been unkind to some in the armor industry and beneficial to others. That's partly why I'm considering going back into the business, although primarily as an investor. There is something on the horizon that I firmly believe will upset the apple cart, and it's about a year out from maturity. It's also relevant to this discussion. For instance, a level III plate with the ability to stop M855, weigh as little or less than PE-only plates currently do, and require about 5% of standard production time at a very comparable price point. |
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Posted: 12/9/2017 11:20:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know Tencate played with steel/pe hybrids. They also played with shaping steel into a multi-curve shape. I think both pursuits were frivolous and I believe it's one small example (although there are many reasons) why Tencate let go of a lot of executives, their sales staff, and now runs a more bare-bones crew. |
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Posted: 12/9/2017 2:17:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's an interesting thing about Tencate. In their 2016 catalog, they advertised a steel plate that seemed like a real standout. The 8075SA was, they claim, multi-curved, just .20" thick, and weighed just 6.25 pounds... at a 10x12" SAPI cut, so they weren't playing games with cut or coverage. They claimed that this plate could stop both M193 and M855. I think that it went for $185, wholesale. But this superlative steel plate is, like most of their other steel offerings, no longer available. It's not part of their 2017 catalog. The steel plates that are still available are markedly inferior; flat, thicker, heavier, and they won't stop either M855 or M193. This seems very odd to me. Was it mismanagement, or perhaps their catalog jumped the gun, and the 8075SA was never truly available? |
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Posted: 12/12/2017 9:40:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's an interesting thing about Tencate. In their 2016 catalog, they advertised a steel plate that seemed like a real standout. The 8075SA was, they claim, multi-curved, just .20" thick, and weighed just 6.25 pounds... at a 10x12" SAPI cut, so they weren't playing games with cut or coverage. They claimed that this plate could stop both M193 and M855. I think that it went for $185, wholesale. But this superlative steel plate is, like most of their other steel offerings, no longer available. It's not part of their 2017 catalog. The steel plates that are still available are markedly inferior; flat, thicker, heavier, and they won't stop either M855 or M193. This seems very odd to me. Was it mismanagement, or perhaps their catalog jumped the gun, and the 8075SA was never truly available? |
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