Armory Sponsor
Posted: 2/24/2015 3:15:09 PM EDT
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Many of you seem quite knowledgeable on the subject, and the suggestion of "get training first before using your IFAK" comes up frequently.
As far as medical care goes, I'm a know-nothing, but I'd really like to be able learn some of the essential skills and proper use of what is usually in an IFAK. I've looked online, and aside from specialized "tactical medical" training that is typically several states away, there doesn't seem to be much out there. I've looked at some of the Red Cross's courses, but I'm not sure if any of that is really useful. Any suggestions where to look and learn? |
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Well...there is a whole forum on training. Quoted:
Well...there is a whole forum on training. Yeah, thanks I saw that, but was having difficult finding very much in there. I'll look through it again. Quoted:
Maybe check out a local EMT course? Look for a TCCC course in your area. I don't think you will be able to find any online courses that teach the material in an online format. For a lot of the skills, you will want the hands on training. I'll definitely look at those. Hadn't heard of a TCCC course until now. I'm pretty bad at learning technical things through just watching and reading, it would definitely need to be as hands on as possible. |
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Just remember that a local EMT course is not just trauma/GSW treatment. Civilian EMS is slightly different with not just the trauma component, but also the medical component as well; cardiac issues, respiratory issues, OB, etc.
Not saying they won't teach trauma/GSW treatment, just know that it is geared to responding to and treating a wide range of medical emergencies. In the Academy I teach at, we teach National Registey curriculum, but I also incorporate some of the TCCC training into labs and lectures. Besides the knowledge and training you will receive with EMT training, it will also give you the opportunity to work as an EMT if that interests you. Good luck. |
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I'll echo some of the other comments - I would look for a basic first aid course to begin with. That will teach you the basics of patient care and injury management. This should cover a majority of injuries you could encounter as well as basic stabilization of these injuries. If you are really serious (which I would recommend after taking a basic first aid course) is a first responder or EMT course. Those courses are also great - but depending on laws in your state, if you aren't certified and/or licensed you may not be able to do all the skills you learn in the FR/EMT classes as a civilian. The knowledge you will gain is valuable - but FR/EMT courses also are significantly more expensive (sometimes more than 10x the cost of a basic first aid course). There is little "tactical EMS" and GSW management taught in EMT courses.
I'm currently a Nationally Registered Advanced EMT and have been an EMT for over 7 years now. I carry a dark angel medical kit on my first line belt and have another IFAK on my range bag which I put together myself. Even though I am trained and certified to use advanced equipment, I only carry basic trauma management equipment (tourniquet, bandages, quikclot, etc.) as these are the things I am going to need to immediately stabilize someone. Ideally there should be an ambulance coming that has all of the advanced equipment that I will need. Through training you can decide what you need and don't need and it will also tell you what you can and can't do in terms of care. I would definitely recommend some training before you buy/use an IFAK. Buying the wrong kit may cost more than you need to spend and leave you with a bunch of equipment you aren't trained and can't use. With the GSWs I have treated I have mostly just used gauze pads and a gauze roll. |
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Just remember that a local EMT course is not just trauma/GSW treatment. Civilian EMS is slightly different with not just the trauma component, but also the medical component as well; cardiac issues, respiratory issues, OB, etc. Not saying they won't teach trauma/GSW treatment, just know that it is geared to responding to and treating a wide range of medical emergencies. In the Academy I teach at, we teach National Registey curriculum, but I also incorporate some of the TCCC training into labs and lectures. Besides the knowledge and training you will receive with EMT training, it will also give you the opportunity to work as an EMT if that interests you. Good luck. i have said for years basic emt should be a required course in high school. |
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Community colleges, fire departments, and American Red Cross do a lot of first aid, CPR, and even some AED training. Smaller colleges or universities also do certifications for their clubs and usually have a Red Cross associated.
If all else fails, ask your doctor or even the information desk at your local hospital, they're always doing blood drives with the ARC and can connect you with basic certs like CPR and First Aid. If my babysitter can manage it, you can too. Just take a look around. |
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Take into consideration that an IFAK may not necessarily be used BY the individual wearing/carrying it, but is just as likely to be used ON that individual by someone else who already happens to have the appropriate training.
Don't delay strapping on an IFAK for lack of training on the use of its contents. Very few of the folks toting one of those is a combat/tactical medic. |
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Just remember that a local EMT course is not just trauma/GSW treatment. Civilian EMS is slightly different with not just the trauma component, but also the medical component as well; cardiac issues, respiratory issues, OB, etc. Not saying they won't teach trauma/GSW treatment, just know that it is geared to responding to and treating a wide range of medical emergencies. In the Academy I teach at, we teach National Registey curriculum, but I also incorporate some of the TCCC training into labs and lectures. Besides the knowledge and training you will receive with EMT training, it will also give you the opportunity to work as an EMT if that interests you. Dead-on comments. If you are serious, at least invest in a formal EMT course. 1) There are more medical threats in the world than a GSW and you'll likely use that EMT training for everything but a GSW unless you are in an urban shithole or Middle Eastern cesspool 2) The guys and gals teaching an EMT course have real world experience that is directly applicable to your community; if you listen you'll learn a lot more than just medical elements 3) Networking - if you are smart and motivated enough to seek specialized medical training, you'll be associating with similarly minded people Extra Bonus - take a community college course, as they should have college-aged girls. My experience: I have taken specialized trauma training for non-medical folks, I've taken basic first ad course (repeatedly), I've taken EMT training and I hang with numerous guys who survived gunshots wounds. Having the right tools is great - having the right training allows you to take some short of life-preserving action even without the right tools. Remember that "first aid" is just that - FIRST in a long line of medical interventions needed in a serious crisis. |
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If you take an EMT course, the only medicine you will be allowed to administer will be oxygen. Other simple things (anything that a patient would be able to do themselves), you can assist them. Other than that, you will grow your knowledge on finding causes of medical/trauma emergencies. If you want to do more than that, such as start IV's, you would have to at least go through EMT-Intermediate. If you want to know how to do more, you would then need to take EMT Paramedic course. I've been taught how to do IVs (gave myself an IV and a couple others) and chest decompression with a needle for tension pneumothorax (did not perform a chest decompression), but only from Combat Life Savers course while in the Marines. Legally, I'm not allowed to do those in a civilian atmosphere (EMT). |
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If you become a certified EMT, that comes with a lot of legal requirements as well. Doing something that doesnt comply with local standing orders can get you hemmed up pretty bad.
Keep in mind that TCCC changes pretty regularly so you ONE course isnt the end of training for the rest of your life. Of course if youre on a budget you could just meet up with this guy. 
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If you become a certified EMT, that comes with a lot of legal requirements as well. Doing something that doesnt comply with local standing orders can get you hemmed up pretty bad. Keep in mind that TCCC changes pretty regularly so you ONE course isnt the end of training for the rest of your life. Of course if youre on a budget you could just meet up with this guy. http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2014/01/15/8e/b2/doomsday_prepper.jpg What a joke that schmuck is. Based on what suggestions you've all given me, I'll look to do the following: -Take Red Cross's first aid course for the basics - Check with my local Fire Department to see if they have any courses going, and/or take red cross's Emergency Medical Responder course - look for a TCCC course - Pick up an IFAK, because there is a good possibility that somebody would need to use it on me, and they may know how to use the contents better than I do. |
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Many of you seem quite knowledgeable on the subject, and the suggestion of "get training first before using your IFAK" comes up frequently. As far as medical care goes, I'm a know-nothing, but I'd really like to be able learn some of the essential skills and proper use of what is usually in an IFAK. I've looked online, and aside from specialized "tactical medical" training that is typically several states away, there doesn't seem to be much out there. I've looked at some of the Red Cross's courses, but I'm not sure if any of that is really useful. Any suggestions where to look and learn? Any community college has the paramedics cert course. It is usually done in parts throughout a year and if you don't have the need to get everything for the cert, you can get most of the trauma treatment training in the first 1/2 of the coarse (at least here you can). Check locally, its cheap and great training. |
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What a joke that schmuck is. Based on what suggestions you've all given me, I'll look to do the following: -Take Red Cross's first aid course for the basics - Check with my local Fire Department to see if they have any courses going, and/or take red cross's Emergency Medical Responder course - look for a TCCC course - Pick up an IFAK, because there is a good possibility that somebody would need to use it on me, and they may know how to use the contents better than I do. Quoted:
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If you become a certified EMT, that comes with a lot of legal requirements as well. Doing something that doesnt comply with local standing orders can get you hemmed up pretty bad. Keep in mind that TCCC changes pretty regularly so you ONE course isnt the end of training for the rest of your life. Of course if youre on a budget you could just meet up with this guy. http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2014/01/15/8e/b2/doomsday_prepper.jpg What a joke that schmuck is. Based on what suggestions you've all given me, I'll look to do the following: -Take Red Cross's first aid course for the basics - Check with my local Fire Department to see if they have any courses going, and/or take red cross's Emergency Medical Responder course - look for a TCCC course - Pick up an IFAK, because there is a good possibility that somebody would need to use it on me, and they may know how to use the contents better than I do. Not a bad plan, good luck! |
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What a joke that schmuck is. Based on what suggestions you've all given me, I'll look to do the following: -Take Red Cross's first aid course for the basics - Check with my local Fire Department to see if they have any courses going, and/or take red cross's Emergency Medical Responder course - look for a TCCC course - Pick up an IFAK, because there is a good possibility that somebody would need to use it on me, and they may know how to use the contents better than I do. Quoted:
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If you become a certified EMT, that comes with a lot of legal requirements as well. Doing something that doesnt comply with local standing orders can get you hemmed up pretty bad. Keep in mind that TCCC changes pretty regularly so you ONE course isnt the end of training for the rest of your life. Of course if youre on a budget you could just meet up with this guy. http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2014/01/15/8e/b2/doomsday_prepper.jpg What a joke that schmuck is. Based on what suggestions you've all given me, I'll look to do the following: -Take Red Cross's first aid course for the basics - Check with my local Fire Department to see if they have any courses going, and/or take red cross's Emergency Medical Responder course - look for a TCCC course - Pick up an IFAK, because there is a good possibility that somebody would need to use it on me, and they may know how to use the contents better than I do. Sounds like a good plan. As far as an IFAK, start getting supplies that you can use now. You may not have been "trained" in it, but anyone can apply direct pressure. Pick up some 4x4's, Israeli bandage, and some gauze. Hell, get a TQ too. If possible, get a second one to use as a trainer. Doesn't take much skill to apply direct pressure with 4x4's or place a TQ. With a trainer, you can practice applying it on yourself. Just don't us a trainer as a frontline TQ, the nylon will stretch out and not be effective. Plenty of youtube videos about application and TQ setup/loading. |
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Sounds like a good plan. As far as an IFAK, start getting supplies that you can use now. You may not have been "trained" in it, but anyone can apply direct pressure. Pick up some 4x4's, Israeli bandage, and some gauze. Hell, get a TQ too. If possible, get a second one to use as a trainer. Doesn't take much skill to apply direct pressure with 4x4's or place a TQ. With a trainer, you can practice applying it on yourself. Just don't us a trainer as a frontline TQ, the nylon will stretch out and not be effective. Plenty of youtube videos about application and TQ setup/loading. Been watching through some of Tactical Medical Solutions' videos for preliminary information, just so I have some base knowledge. Even if I have no practice or further knowledge than a youtube video, at least it's something for the "oh shit, you're bleeding like a motherfucker!" instance. I figure that this ought to do for just a baseline here-and-now thing until I get some actual knowledge and training. Just enough to pack a wound and wrap it to apply pressure. I wouldn't be remotely comfortable past that, and honestly wouldn't be excited about having to do so based on knowledge gained from fucking youtube 
Better than nothing though, I guess is my point. |
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Quoted: Been watching through some of Tactical Medical Solutions' videos for preliminary information, just so I have some base knowledge. Even if I have no practice or further knowledge than a youtube video, at least it's something for the "oh shit, you're bleeding like a motherfucker!" instance. I figure that this ought to do for just a baseline here-and-now thing until I get some actual knowledge and training. Just enough to pack a wound and wrap it to apply pressure. I wouldn't be remotely comfortable past that, and honestly wouldn't be excited about having to do so based on knowledge gained from fucking youtube Better than nothing though, I guess is my point. Quoted: Quoted: Sounds like a good plan. As far as an IFAK, start getting supplies that you can use now. You may not have been "trained" in it, but anyone can apply direct pressure. Pick up some 4x4's, Israeli bandage, and some gauze. Hell, get a TQ too. If possible, get a second one to use as a trainer. Doesn't take much skill to apply direct pressure with 4x4's or place a TQ. With a trainer, you can practice applying it on yourself. Just don't us a trainer as a frontline TQ, the nylon will stretch out and not be effective. Plenty of youtube videos about application and TQ setup/loading. Been watching through some of Tactical Medical Solutions' videos for preliminary information, just so I have some base knowledge. Even if I have no practice or further knowledge than a youtube video, at least it's something for the "oh shit, you're bleeding like a motherfucker!" instance. I figure that this ought to do for just a baseline here-and-now thing until I get some actual knowledge and training. Just enough to pack a wound and wrap it to apply pressure. I wouldn't be remotely comfortable past that, and honestly wouldn't be excited about having to do so based on knowledge gained from fucking youtube Better than nothing though, I guess is my point. |
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It doesn't matter. Your brain goes to shit the first time you see something drastic like that. Quoted:
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Sounds like a good plan. As far as an IFAK, start getting supplies that you can use now. You may not have been "trained" in it, but anyone can apply direct pressure. Pick up some 4x4's, Israeli bandage, and some gauze. Hell, get a TQ too. If possible, get a second one to use as a trainer. Doesn't take much skill to apply direct pressure with 4x4's or place a TQ. With a trainer, you can practice applying it on yourself. Just don't us a trainer as a frontline TQ, the nylon will stretch out and not be effective. Plenty of youtube videos about application and TQ setup/loading. Been watching through some of Tactical Medical Solutions' videos for preliminary information, just so I have some base knowledge. Even if I have no practice or further knowledge than a youtube video, at least it's something for the "oh shit, you're bleeding like a motherfucker!" instance. I figure that this ought to do for just a baseline here-and-now thing until I get some actual knowledge and training. Just enough to pack a wound and wrap it to apply pressure. I wouldn't be remotely comfortable past that, and honestly wouldn't be excited about having to do so based on knowledge gained from fucking youtube
Better than nothing though, I guess is my point. That is the truth, first couple trauma calls at the start of my career I was basically useless for the the first 30 seconds after seeing my patient. Good news, you get past that and just get to work. |
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Apply pressure and call in support to get the patient to the hospital RFN is basically what you need to know to start. Between that and cpr you can save a lot of lives.
Dicking around with battlefield medicine instead of calling for immediate transport will kill a lot of people. A decent EMT course will teach you the above along with important aspects like neck stabilization and limb splinting. This will save a lot of quality of life. |
| I keep seeing a lot of folks bring up EMT training and as a source for training its good but being a certified EMT comes with a long list of legal obligations and requirements. Every EMT also falls under a medical director. As an EMT you are essentially practicing medicine under their license. That's fine If your day job is an EMT, but without it you are exposing yourself to all kinds of legal trouble. |
| Stick to your bare essentials and you'll be fine no matter what level of training you have. Bleeding control and rescue breathing/CPR can be done by anyone. Don't go around darting peoples chests, starting IVs, and tubing people and you'll be ok, leave those for when EMS makes the scene. |
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Apply pressure and call in support to get the patient to the hospital RFN is basically what you need to know to start. Between that and cpr you can save a lot of lives. Dicking around with battlefield medicine instead of calling for immediate transport will kill a lot of people. A decent EMT course will teach you the above along with important aspects like neck stabilization and limb splinting. This will save a lot of quality of life. very much this! a lot of guys in the field want to dick around with the patient in the field. your job should be nothing more than stabilization to get the patient to transport as quickly as possible. the longer you dick around on the ground the higher the chance of complications. in a critical event rapid advanced care is key to survival and successful recovery. |
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I keep seeing a lot of folks bring up EMT training and as a source for training its good but being a certified EMT comes with a long list of legal obligations and requirements. Every EMT also falls under a medical director. As an EMT you are essentially practicing medicine under their license. That's fine If your day job is an EMT, but without it you are exposing yourself to all kinds of legal trouble. Absolutely no offense to EMS personnel, but someone licensed as an EMT-B has a very narrow scope of how they can intervene. I would venture to say that almost everything they're privilged to do would fall under the Good Samaritan Law. Attempting anything more advanced than what an EMT-B is able to do under their license would certainly be dangerous territory if doing so as someone not in healthcare. |
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Absolutely no offense to EMS personnel, but someone licensed as an EMT-B has a very narrow scope of how they can intervene. I would venture to say that almost everything they're privilged to do would fall under the Good Samaritan Law. Attempting anything more advanced than what an EMT-B is able to do under their license would certainly be dangerous territory if doing so as someone not in healthcare. Quoted:
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I keep seeing a lot of folks bring up EMT training and as a source for training its good but being a certified EMT comes with a long list of legal obligations and requirements. Every EMT also falls under a medical director. As an EMT you are essentially practicing medicine under their license. That's fine If your day job is an EMT, but without it you are exposing yourself to all kinds of legal trouble. Absolutely no offense to EMS personnel, but someone licensed as an EMT-B has a very narrow scope of how they can intervene. I would venture to say that almost everything they're privilged to do would fall under the Good Samaritan Law. Attempting anything more advanced than what an EMT-B is able to do under their license would certainly be dangerous territory if doing so as someone not in healthcare. true but most of these guys won't be working ems they also won't be working under a medical physicians oversight so advanced care will be off the table anyway. they won't have drug access and very limited IV access if at all, even if trained. basic emt gives you more advanced skills for basic EMERGENCY trauma/medical care. things that can actually make a difference until advanced transport arrives. Having the skill set to properly diagnose and pass information on to advanced providers IS a good skill. we all know popping in an oral or nasal airway isn't rocket science but it's also not something the average CPR schmuck knows how to do. A lot of guys dismiss basic EMT's as useless. I don't, i have seen that training save a lot of lives prior to my arrival as a medic. The first guy on the scene really does set the tone for the entire survival of a critical incident. don't act or fuck up and you have dramatically altered the downstream care for that patient. knowing what to do, and in many cases what NOT to do is huge. EMT teaches a lot more than just patient care. many classes teach scene management, safety and limited crowd management skills as well. while those skills may not be part of the cert a good instructor will cover them. |
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I keep seeing a lot of folks bring up EMT training and as a source for training its good but being a certified EMT comes with a long list of legal obligations and requirements. Every EMT also falls under a medical director. As an EMT you are essentially practicing medicine under their license. That's fine If your day job is an EMT, but without it you are exposing yourself to all kinds of legal trouble. No, the EMT is practicing under his/her own license. Nothing the EMT does will have any affect on the medical director's license. There is a scope of practice established for the EMT and the EMT is educated to practice under that scope of practice. If he/she deviates beyond that, it is on him/her and no one else. |
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true but most of these guys won't be working ems they also won't be working under a medical physicians oversight so advanced care will be off the table anyway. they won't have drug access and very limited IV access if at all, even if trained. basic emt gives you more advanced skills for basic EMERGENCY trauma/medical care. things that can actually make a difference until advanced transport arrives. Having the skill set to properly diagnose and pass information on to advanced providers IS a good skill. we all know popping in an oral or nasal airway isn't rocket science but it's also not something the average CPR schmuck knows how to do. A lot of guys dismiss basic EMT's as useless. I don't, i have seen that training save a lot of lives prior to my arrival as a medic. The first guy on the scene really does set the tone for the entire survival of a critical incident. don't act or fuck up and you have dramatically altered the downstream care for that patient. knowing what to do, and in many cases what NOT to do is huge. EMT teaches a lot more than just patient care. many classes teach scene management, safety and limited crowd management skills as well. while those skills may not be part of the cert a good instructor will cover them. Quoted:
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I keep seeing a lot of folks bring up EMT training and as a source for training its good but being a certified EMT comes with a long list of legal obligations and requirements. Every EMT also falls under a medical director. As an EMT you are essentially practicing medicine under their license. That's fine If your day job is an EMT, but without it you are exposing yourself to all kinds of legal trouble. Absolutely no offense to EMS personnel, but someone licensed as an EMT-B has a very narrow scope of how they can intervene. I would venture to say that almost everything they're privilged to do would fall under the Good Samaritan Law. Attempting anything more advanced than what an EMT-B is able to do under their license would certainly be dangerous territory if doing so as someone not in healthcare. true but most of these guys won't be working ems they also won't be working under a medical physicians oversight so advanced care will be off the table anyway. they won't have drug access and very limited IV access if at all, even if trained. basic emt gives you more advanced skills for basic EMERGENCY trauma/medical care. things that can actually make a difference until advanced transport arrives. Having the skill set to properly diagnose and pass information on to advanced providers IS a good skill. we all know popping in an oral or nasal airway isn't rocket science but it's also not something the average CPR schmuck knows how to do. A lot of guys dismiss basic EMT's as useless. I don't, i have seen that training save a lot of lives prior to my arrival as a medic. The first guy on the scene really does set the tone for the entire survival of a critical incident. don't act or fuck up and you have dramatically altered the downstream care for that patient. knowing what to do, and in many cases what NOT to do is huge. EMT teaches a lot more than just patient care. many classes teach scene management, safety and limited crowd management skills as well. while those skills may not be part of the cert a good instructor will cover them. I believe we're on the same page here. I'm saying that it's better to have formal training on your equipment than not. If fear of losing your license or further legal action arises, then you should questions whether what you're doing is right or not. I'm mainly speaking about the person who has IV supplies and decompression needles in a bag of his car and decides to attempt to utilize them when he stumbles upon the scene of an accident. Sorry, "A" for effort, but you my friend, are in deep trouble. As far as being a responsible citizen is concerned, stick to the basics, and as the above poster pointed out, aid by informing those trained in healthcare and crisis management as to what they are walking into. Don't try to be a cowboy. FWIW, I was also a pre-hospital worker: EMT-B then PHRN. I've unfortunately moved away from outside hospital work. Much appreciation for what they do. It often goes unrecognized. |
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No, the EMT is practicing under his/her own license. Nothing the EMT does will have any affect on the medical director's license. There is a scope of practice established for the EMT and the EMT is educated to practice under that scope of practice. If he/she deviates beyond that, it is on him/her and no one else. Quoted:
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I keep seeing a lot of folks bring up EMT training and as a source for training its good but being a certified EMT comes with a long list of legal obligations and requirements. Every EMT also falls under a medical director. As an EMT you are essentially practicing medicine under their license. That's fine If your day job is an EMT, but without it you are exposing yourself to all kinds of legal trouble. No, the EMT is practicing under his/her own license. Nothing the EMT does will have any affect on the medical director's license. There is a scope of practice established for the EMT and the EMT is educated to practice under that scope of practice. If he/she deviates beyond that, it is on him/her and no one else. How do you figure? You have regulation at national/state/local levels as to what you can and can't do. Many vary widely based on that regulation and that assumes that you are actually working as an EMT. |
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Absolutely no offense to EMS personnel, but someone licensed as an EMT-B has a very narrow scope of how they can intervene. I would venture to say that almost everything they're privilged to do would fall under the Good Samaritan Law. Attempting anything more advanced than what an EMT-B is able to do under their license would certainly be dangerous territory if doing so as someone not in healthcare. Quoted:
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I keep seeing a lot of folks bring up EMT training and as a source for training its good but being a certified EMT comes with a long list of legal obligations and requirements. Every EMT also falls under a medical director. As an EMT you are essentially practicing medicine under their license. That's fine If your day job is an EMT, but without it you are exposing yourself to all kinds of legal trouble. Absolutely no offense to EMS personnel, but someone licensed as an EMT-B has a very narrow scope of how they can intervene. I would venture to say that almost everything they're privilged to do would fall under the Good Samaritan Law. Attempting anything more advanced than what an EMT-B is able to do under their license would certainly be dangerous territory if doing so as someone not in healthcare. I'd say that's generally a safe assumption but state regs can vary greatly. Here's my fear; we start recommending emt-b training and Joe neckbeard buys a ems manual and calls it good or gets the ems training but doesn't take the job and gain that first hand experience from other experienced EMS personel. Those two people are very dangerous to whomever they come across in the future. Even "trained professional" EMTs fuck up on occasion, now imagine our over educated laymen. I'd like to think that some basic training in stop the bleeding or stabilize the neck is where a they'd draw the line but frankly I don't believe they all would. |
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Hey, OP...
In the Great State of Texas, we have a company called Lone Star Medics who provide very good, real-world tactical medical training. I am sure California has something similar. Oh...they sure do....click on this! Edited to add: My reply to your post wasn't intended to come off as smart-assed in anyway, even though it may have sounded like it. |
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You need to decide whether you want to learn TCCC or EMT. CPR is not something used in TCCC but I see lots of people here recommending it.
TCCC may not always be what is best for the person either. You may have to move someone with a spinal injury resulting in them being paralyzed. This probably wouldn't be a good move CONUS unless the vehicle was on fire, and jaws of life can easily peel apart normal vehicles. |
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I'd say that's generally a safe assumption but state regs can vary greatly. Here's my fear; we start recommending emt-b training and Joe neckbeard buys a ems manual and calls it good or gets the ems training but doesn't take the job and gain that first hand experience from other experienced EMS personel. Those two people are very dangerous to whomever they come across in the future. Even "trained professional" EMTs fuck up on occasion, now imagine our over educated laymen. I'd like to think that some basic training in stop the bleeding or stabilize the neck is where a they'd draw the line but frankly I don't believe they all would. Quoted:
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I keep seeing a lot of folks bring up EMT training and as a source for training its good but being a certified EMT comes with a long list of legal obligations and requirements. Every EMT also falls under a medical director. As an EMT you are essentially practicing medicine under their license. That's fine If your day job is an EMT, but without it you are exposing yourself to all kinds of legal trouble. Absolutely no offense to EMS personnel, but someone licensed as an EMT-B has a very narrow scope of how they can intervene. I would venture to say that almost everything they're privilged to do would fall under the Good Samaritan Law. Attempting anything more advanced than what an EMT-B is able to do under their license would certainly be dangerous territory if doing so as someone not in healthcare. I'd say that's generally a safe assumption but state regs can vary greatly. Here's my fear; we start recommending emt-b training and Joe neckbeard buys a ems manual and calls it good or gets the ems training but doesn't take the job and gain that first hand experience from other experienced EMS personel. Those two people are very dangerous to whomever they come across in the future. Even "trained professional" EMTs fuck up on occasion, now imagine our over educated laymen. I'd like to think that some basic training in stop the bleeding or stabilize the neck is where a they'd draw the line but frankly I don't believe they all would. those inclined to that already do and have. i have never encountered anyone like that, but i have come across more than a few prior military that have been a HUGE asset at wreck scenes. none of these guys had anymore than basic mil first aid training. honestly even the guy that wants to be a "hero" but only reads the manual can be an asset if you understand how to manage them on a scene. in my area it's typically 2 volunteer firemen with first responder training if i am lucky and an ambulance 30-45 min away. i will take anyone that can follow instructions and is willing to help most days. |
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You need to decide whether you want to learn TCCC or EMT. CPR is not something used in TCCC but I see lots of people here recommending it. TCCC may not always be what is best for the person either. You may have to move someone with a spinal injury resulting in them being paralyzed. This probably wouldn't be a good move CONUS unless the vehicle was on fire, and jaws of life can easily peel apart normal vehicles. even then you better be able to clearly articulate you were in genuine fear of life and limb before you move them. Also consider there are limits to "good samaritan laws" being formally trained "can" be a liability for you. i had good friend years ago that was a damn good paramedic stop to assist at a wreck he saw happen. driver was paralysed and even though he did nothing wrong he ended up losing everything when he got sued by the drunken asshole. he was off duty and was not protected under his department. the wrong jury will fuck you in a heartbeat. they don't understand emergency response or medical issues. i will stop and assist now, but i won't do ANY patient care unless loss of life is real possibility. i will observe and assist until responders arrive. |
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I have been a Paramedic for 17 years and have been on my TEMS team for the City of Pittsburgh. I used a lot of my training and applied it to the tactical arena and get out of the mode of "scene safety". Tac med soltions, its tactical, and NA rescue. Lots of info on youtube if you search those three.
http://www.itstactical.com/topics/medcom/ http://www.narescue.com/ http://www.tacmedsolutions.com/ sorry that the links were not hot. Wouldn't let me. |
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I have been a Paramedic for 17 years and have been on my TEMS team for the City of Pittsburgh. I used a lot of my training and applied it to the tactical arena and get out of the mode of "scene safety". Tac med soltions, its tactical, and NA rescue. Lots of info on youtube if you search those three. http://www.itstactical.com/topics/medcom/ http://www.narescue.com/ http://www.tacmedsolutions.com/ sorry that the links were not hot. Wouldn't let me. I've got tac med solutions bookmarked for research and information, have yet to read any of ITS Tactical's articles, and this is the first I've heard of NA Rescue so I'll take a look at it too |
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Take into consideration that an IFAK may not necessarily be used BY the individual wearing/carrying it, but is just as likely to be used ON that individual by someone else who already happens to have the appropriate training. Don't delay strapping on an IFAK for lack of training on the use of its contents. Very few of the folks toting one of those is a combat/tactical medic. That's exactly what it's for. It's not there to use on someone else. |
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I've got tac med solutions bookmarked for research and information, have yet to read any of ITS Tactical's articles, and this is the first I've heard of NA Rescue so I'll take a look at it too Quoted:
Quoted:
I have been a Paramedic for 17 years and have been on my TEMS team for the City of Pittsburgh. I used a lot of my training and applied it to the tactical arena and get out of the mode of "scene safety". Tac med soltions, its tactical, and NA rescue. Lots of info on youtube if you search those three. http://www.itstactical.com/topics/medcom/ http://www.narescue.com/ http://www.tacmedsolutions.com/ sorry that the links were not hot. Wouldn't let me. I've got tac med solutions bookmarked for research and information, have yet to read any of ITS Tactical's articles, and this is the first I've heard of NA Rescue so I'll take a look at it too ITS is a good bunch with some great info. but i have to say there is a BIG difference in tac medicine and regular medicine in the field. safety is important. there is a huge difference in stabilizing a pt under fire vs a routine call. you won't get yourself in trouble tossing a swat team member over your shoulder and moving them.... granny and her broken hip might be a problem  . looking out for that down power line or chemical spill at a wreck is very important.
also consider that 99.999999% of your situations will be of a much more boring nature. routine basic trauma or sick calls. unless your mil or LE your much more likely to end up working a seizure or fall than you are a major trauma event. learning the basics will cover the major stuff too. While a lot of medics dismiss Basic EMT, one crucial thing you will learn is how to triage and diagnose issues that need immediate advanced care beyond your skill set <at least you should>. An EMT isn't there to be a hero or a wannabe trauma surgeon in the field. Your a first responder. immediate first aid and stabilization for advanced care. Paramedics are great and i don't ever regret going through that level of training. but in 99% of cases, if you don't have the specialized equipment and drug access handy your back to the basics of plug leaks, pump blood, move air. you might be able to better diagnose but treatment goes back to the basics. There is also another side of formal training we tend to overlook. and that is simply experience from your EMS rotation. While you won't get much, what i consider the most important is simply confidence building in your skills and learning to manage and control YOUR reactions to an event. Many people vapor lock and get tunnel vision when shit goes sideways. Education is great but doesn't do you much good if you can't apply it. Putting yourself into those situations in semi controlled circumstance works. I have seen students that literately turned into a puddle of drool on the first call become effective medics after a little exposure to bad things. JMHO |
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