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Hawk...excellent thread. Really have learned a lot here.
Two questions for you:
Thanks for your time on this... |
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Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
You have trees, bushes, and other plant life. It will work fine. I'd like to see how it works all year round, through the changes in color with the plant life. how about some pics with say a multicam pack or chest rig, ect, to see how/if they can work together. I'm sure not everyone wants to reinvest all sorts of money into yet another camo collection |
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Originally Posted By ivox:
Hawk...excellent thread. Really have learned a lot here. Two questions for you:
Thanks for your time on this... 1. Friend of mine and also Predator BDU 2. Yes, these are Proppers Battle Rip material and it is a 65/35 Poly Cotton material. |
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
Originally Posted By BB868:
Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
You have trees, bushes, and other plant life. It will work fine. I'd like to see how it works all year round, through the changes in color with the plant life. how about some pics with say a multicam pack or chest rig, ect, to see how/if they can work together. I'm sure not everyone wants to reinvest all sorts of money into yet another camo collection Cleared out all my Multicam gear and such a couple of years ago. I have one full set of BDU's left and I think I have one chest rig left. Let me see what I can do with it. |
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
Haven't been in this thread in years; Hawkeye, hope you're well man. We haven't kept up.
Question for you though, any idea where to find the SKD stuff other than SKD? I have a set of their BDU's and they fit me better than any other. I wanted to get a couple more pair in some solid colors for 3 Gun and they're currently sold out at SKD. |
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As far as I know, SKD is the only place to get their BDU's.
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
The A-TACS FG looks great in hand. Being in the desert it is hard to not have a preference for the AU, especially since it will only get some use up north for a little hunting. I am sure those outside the South West will be loving it since most people have the Green around.
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
Originally Posted By ivox:
Hawk...excellent thread. Really have learned a lot here. +1 This thread had been very informative and enlightening. Information and pictures posted here has shown me that the camo I was leaning toward would not have been the best choice for my area. BTW, anyone have any pictures of OD & woodland gear being worn over MARPAT style camo? |
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In that one pic, your morale patches expose you.
I'm loving some FG. That prone sunlight pic is only fucked by the brim of the hat. |
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Been wanting to try it out for some time now, just havent ever gotten around to ordering any. Only place I know of to get the real thing is from SRVV in Russia.
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: RUSMILITARY sometimes have stock, but otherwise, they are ordering it from SRVV themselves, and you still have the extra wait.Been wanting to try it out for some time now, just havent ever gotten around to ordering any. Only place I know of to get the real thing is from SRVV in Russia. |
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When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt,
run in little circles, wave your arms and shout. |
Great thread!
I have been searching for some replacement BDU pants, and this thread has helped a lot. I have been wearing a pair of tiger stripe BDU pants for many years when I go hunting. They are now faded and have a hole in the crotch. Time to retire these pants and get something new. I have had several pairs of regular hunting pants in Real-tree and Mossy-Oak, but they wear out quickly. I am torn between the A-TACS FG, and German Flecktarn pants. Is there a good place to order Flecktarn pants OP? I can only find used pants online, so maybe they are mostly unavailable in the U.S.. Also, I know it's a free country to wear whatever you like, so long as you are not faking military service, but a buddy of mine loves wearing ACU color pants around for everyday comfort. He gets all kinds of civilians coming up to him wanting to thank him for his service. I am sure that would be very annoying/bothersome for a regular joe. Not to mention I am also a civilian, and sometimes I am out hunting on a military base, I would feel poserish wearing ACU or Multicam pants around soldiers on a base. One time, even just wearing my faded Tiger stripe pants tucked into my boots for ticks, a guy thought I was military from a distance. I like the way ATACS and Flecktarn blend in, as well as they are not ACUs, Multi-Cam, or MARPAT. |
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A combination AK-57, Uzi, radar, laser, triple-barreled,double scoped, heat seeking shotgun.
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Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Great thread! I have been searching for some replacement BDU pants, and this thread has helped a lot. I have been wearing a pair of tiger stripe BDU pants for many years when I go hunting. They are now faded and have a hole in the crotch. Time to retire these pants and get something new. I have had several pairs of regular hunting pants in Real-tree and Mossy-Oak, but they wear out quickly. I am torn between the A-TACS FG, and German Flecktarn pants. Is there a good place to order Flecktarn pants OP? I can only find used pants online, so maybe they are mostly unavailable in the U.S.. Also, I know it's a free country to wear whatever you like, so long as you are not faking military service, but a buddy of mine loves wearing ACU color pants around for everyday comfort. He gets all kinds of civilians coming up to him wanting to thank him for his service. I am sure that would be very annoying/bothersome for a regular joe. Not to mention I am also a civilian, and sometimes I am out hunting on a military base, I would feel poserish wearing ACU or Multicam pants around soldiers on a base. One time, even just wearing my faded Tiger stripe pants tucked into my boots for ticks, a guy thought I was military from a distance. I like the way ATACS and Flecktarn blend in, as well as they are not ACUs, Multi-Cam, or MARPAT. I havent found any place here in the US to get new Flec pants at. Only used. |
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
I posted this in a new thread and then I remembered this one.
I need to clear up NV, NIR, IR issues with ACU patterns and materials. I understand that when buying Multicam the preferred version is the 50/50 NYCO with regards to NV, NIR and IR issues, wash with non brightening detergents, etc. I know that black under NV lights up pretty well. What are the preferred materials with other newer patterns such as desert digital (commercial, not MARPAT), or A-TACS, etc. or is it really not an issue? Is it more color based, material/dye based or both? In regards to these issues, is there much difference between Propper & Tru Spec? |
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To my knowledge, polyester blends arent NIR compliant. Only NYCO blends are. I'm not an expert on those aspects though.
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: Non-compliant NIR (Near InfraRed) Clothing and Gear : IsTo my knowledge, polyester blends arent NIR compliant. Only NYCO blends are. I'm not an expert on those aspects though. this a concern for anyone here when it comes to buying clothing, backpacks, tents, pouches etc? |
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I am torn between the A-TACS FG, and German Flecktarn pants. Is there a good place to order Flecktarn pants OP? I can only find used pants online, so maybe they are mostly unavailable in the U.S..
The only place i've found that has new Flecktarn clothing is a vendor on Amazon.com. His Fleck is new, and he has it in larger sizes. I suspect these are made for the paint ball guys, so I'm not sure of the quality or the durability. I like Fleck myself and have thought about ordering a set. |
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Originally Posted By OlKev: For those interested in such things, just received this note from the A-TACS folks:Originally Posted By Hawkeye: Non-compliant NIR (Near InfraRed) Clothing and Gear : Isthis a concern for anyone here when it comes to buying clothing, backpacks,tents, pouches etc?To my knowledge, polyester blends arent NIR compliant. Only NYCO blends are. I'm not an expert on those aspects though. A-TACS AU and A-TACS FG are NIR "compatible". A-TACS AU is NIR Compatible to Desert Marpat. You cannot claim (as some wrongfully do) "NIR compliancy" unless you have received an NIR compliancy form the US Military. The US Military will not issue compliancy if they are not purchasing your Pattern / fabric. Therefore there is nothing to comply to. A-TACS FG is NIR compatible to Multicam, because NIR specs have been issued to Multicam just as NIR specs have been issued to Desert Marpat. That make sense? The only thing to NIR, is that the ink used to print the pattern, has to fall within certain wavelengths on the spectrum. The inks used to print A-TACS AU and A-TACS FG do fall within that spectrum for Desert Marpat and Multicam but still cannot be called "NIR compliant", only compatible. |
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Well, there you go. Good info.
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
NIR technology has more to do with whether the fabric is more effective at absorbing near-infrared wavelengths rather than reflecting them. NIR-compliance does consider the wavelength of the colors but also has to do with the process of applying those colors to the fabric. At Propper, we have NIR-compliant garments made of many different fabrics (50/50 NYCO twill and ripstop, fire-resistant Defender M, 100% cotton, Nomex, Gore-Tex laminates, etc.), all of which are NIR-compliant in certain patterns. They meet military specification because these fabrics are vat-dyed, instead of being pigment-printed.
Certain vat-dyed fabrics and processes are more effective than others at NIR-compliance. That is because the dye is being absorbed by the fabric at a cellular level, instead of having a pigment being bound to the fiber. Vat-dyeing is a more expensive and time-consuming process. Pigment-printed 65/35 poly/cotton ripstop is a lower-cost fabric which is not NIR-compliant. That's why our MultiCam VS products (for example) use 65/35 Poly/Cotton as they are not used by the military. They are optimized for the visual spectrum (hence the VS) as law enforcement agencies using them don't have a need for NIR-compliance and are often limited in budgets. The military uses milspec MultiCam in our 50/50 NYCO ACUs and headwear, Defender M FR ACUs and FR Combat Shirts and Trousers. Those are NIR-compliant since they are all vat-dyed according to NIR wavelength specifications. The reason why Propper has not manufactured a "NIR-compliant" version of products in A-TACS AU or A-TACS FG is because NIR compliance is (as stated previously) a military specification. Since the military does not use either version of A-TACS, they have not determined the color wavelengths standards for either A-TACS pattern. As a result, no product in either A-TACS pattern can be considered NIR-compliant. |
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Quick question,
this type of coat/jacket http://www.predatorbdu.com/products/A-TACS-Army-Combat-Uniform-Coat-65-35-Poly-Cotton-Ripstop-Mil-Spec-F5459.html , would this be comfortable to wear in weather up to 50-60 degrees? Or are these meant for colder weather? I was thinking 'light jacket'. |
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A combination AK-57, Uzi, radar, laser, triple-barreled,double scoped, heat seeking shotgun.
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Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Quick question, this type of coat/jacket http://www.predatorbdu.com/products/A-TACS-Army-Combat-Uniform-Coat-65-35-Poly-Cotton-Ripstop-Mil-Spec-F5459.html , would this be comfortable to wear in weather up to 50-60 degrees? Or are these meant for colder weather? I was thinking 'light jacket'. Think more along the lines of ACU uniform top and you are going to be spot on. At work, especially on days we are going to be out in the field or on the range, I won't wear my ABU's (not in an AD status and I hate the Airman Burned Up uniform with every fiber of my being) and since we are working on an Army Guard base, I won't wear ACUs either and I tend to try to avoid Multi-cams because some of the students that are deploying from the RTC sometimes wear them and as an instructor, I try to stand out from them so ATACS-AU and ATACS-FG are two of my favorites although I also wear older style BDUs to include woodland, 3 and 6 color desert cammies as well. ATACS though is probably the best pattern I have found out here to blend in with the local area. Now if you are looking for an excellent jacket in ATACS, look into the SORD smock. They are NOT cheap (mine was around $250) but the workmanship and attention to detail is OUTSTANDING!!! The day you run out of pockets with this jacket is the day you are carrying WAY too much crap with you! The other thing that is great about them is that they are cut large. Comes to colder months, I have no problem wearing a fleece or even a Level-7 jacket underneath for added warmth yet still keeping that excellent ATACS pattern in the dead Wyoming grasslands. |
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Originally Posted By uniformguy:
NIR technology has more to do with whether the fabric is more effective at absorbing near-infrared wavelengths rather than reflecting them. NIR-compliance does consider the wavelength of the colors but also has to do with the process of applying those colors to the fabric. At Propper, we have NIR-compliant garments made of many different fabrics (50/50 NYCO twill and ripstop, fire-resistant Defender M, 100% cotton, Nomex, Gore-Tex laminates, etc.), all of which are NIR-compliant in certain patterns. They meet military specification because these fabrics are vat-dyed, instead of being pigment-printed. Certain vat-dyed fabrics and processes are more effective than others at NIR-compliance. That is because the dye is being absorbed by the fabric at a cellular level, instead of having a pigment being bound to the fiber. Vat-dyeing is a more expensive and time-consuming process. Pigment-printed 65/35 poly/cotton ripstop is a lower-cost fabric which is not NIR-compliant. That's why our MultiCam VS products (for example) use 65/35 Poly/Cotton as they are not used by the military. They are optimized for the visual spectrum (hence the VS) as law enforcement agencies using them don't have a need for NIR-compliance and are often limited in budgets. The military uses milspec MultiCam in our 50/50 NYCO ACUs and headwear, Defender M FR ACUs and FR Combat Shirts and Trousers. Those are NIR-compliant since they are all vat-dyed according to NIR wavelength specifications. The reason why Propper has not manufactured a "NIR-compliant" version of products in A-TACS AU or A-TACS FG is because NIR compliance is (as stated previously) a military specification. Since the military does not use either version of A-TACS, they have not determined the color wavelengths standards for either A-TACS pattern. As a result, no product in either A-TACS pattern can be considered NIR-compliant. Thanks! I was hoping you'd chime in. |
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Quick question, this type of coat/jacket http://www.predatorbdu.com/products/A-TACS-Army-Combat-Uniform-Coat-65-35-Poly-Cotton-Ripstop-Mil-Spec-F5459.html , would this be comfortable to wear in weather up to 50-60 degrees? Or are these meant for colder weather? I was thinking 'light jacket'. They are fine up to quite a bit higher than that. They are just a standard ACU style top. |
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
I'm kinda surprised the AU works that well in that environment.
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Doesnt surprise me at all. There is this significantly mistaken notion, that tans, browns, etc... are only good in arid areas.
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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Unless you have on a black belt................where the hell are you?
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Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
FBO |
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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Damn!
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Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
FBO |
Originally Posted By Gopher:
Damn! |
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I have to return some video tapes.
shikata ga nai May your first day in hell last ten thousand years, and may that one be the shortest.” |
I found you thanks to your hands. Multicam works great
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I have to return some video tapes.
shikata ga nai May your first day in hell last ten thousand years, and may that one be the shortest.” |
I received a nice box of goodies from the German Sabre De company today. Now I can be the most tacticool Limey mall ninja! I have to say, the build quality and features on these is amazing. So many damned pockets! 'Special Forces' Smock Gen 3 in Pencott Greenzone: 'Special Forces' Shirt Gen 2 Pencott Greenzone: 'Sniper Hose' Pencott Greenzone Front (1st) and back (2nd) images. The pockets are on the back of the trousers, as they are meant for shooters laying prone: |
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When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt,
run in little circles, wave your arms and shout. |
That would definitely be great camo for most of Northern Europe. You'd disappear in Sweden wearing that Pencott.
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nice, got a link for sabre de ?
how was it dealing with them ? did you have to wait to get the gear delivered ? |
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do you have any pics of it while outside?
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I have to return some video tapes.
shikata ga nai May your first day in hell last ten thousand years, and may that one be the shortest.” |
Originally Posted By ImpacTT: I'll leave the link 'cold' so as not to rustle any feathers, as they aren't an industry partner. http://www.sabre-shop.de/nice, got a link for sabre de ? how was it dealing with them ? did you have to wait to get the gear delivered ? Some things to bear in mind: The website is in German, although they say that they have a US/UK English site coming soon. They only accept PayPal or direct bank transfers (credit cards and debit cards are not trusted as much it seems). The wait for my gear was not that long at all (probably 5 days), but then Germany to the UK isn't quite the same as Germany to the USA. Originally Posted By Shawnmt6601: I haven't had the chance to make proper use of it myself, but I do have some photos that other people have posted, in similar terrain/vegetation to my area:do you have any pics of it while outside? |
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When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt,
run in little circles, wave your arms and shout. |
that looks very effective..
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Originally Posted By ImpacTT: that looks very effective.. It seems to be most effective in mossy areas, and lush grassland. I mean, while it's not going to work everywhere, even within my very green locale , but in the parts it does work, it works scarily well. It does such a good job of blurring out shapes and outlines, that I have to actually really look to see the pockets and flaps and stuff on the jacket and trousers. |
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When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt,
run in little circles, wave your arms and shout. |
Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
nice pics .thanks.
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Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT9.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT10.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT11.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT12.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT13.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT14.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT15.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT16.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT17.jpg It seems to look a lot like multicam from a distance to me could you tell if it did better then multica? |
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I have to return some video tapes.
shikata ga nai May your first day in hell last ten thousand years, and may that one be the shortest.” |
Here, yes. Better than Multicam. Its has a lot more brown in it than multicam does. Now, that does not mean that Multicam doesnt work, or doesnt work here mind you.
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Protego quod vallo.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. |
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