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Posted: 10/6/2008 1:04:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SectorClear]
[#1]
For the layman an ACS may be the answer, but not the replacement for prompt treatment by a pro. Here comes my useless professional opinion: Asherman chest seals are worthless outside of a hospital. Even then there are better alternatives. Once you get one to stick through sweat, blood, and dirt, then you have to worry about blood clotting in the "valve". We use Hy-Fin chest seals. 100% occlusive, sticks to anything, gets stickier when wet, and are tough as nails. You have to monitor your PT for developing TPT and this is good as there is less treat and forget that gets many medics in trouble. Easy fix with the needle decomp. So I reluctantly say yes, get one for your kit, learn about what it does, and use it if you have to, just remember it's not a done deal.
We base our protocol on the MARCH acronym, Massive bleeding, Airway, Respiration, Circulation, Hypotension. The emphasis is on stopping the bleeding foremost. Why breathe for the guy if there isn't any blood to move the O2 around? Just recerted and it';s the same old "civy" stuff. We still rely on our .mil instruction for the latest and greatest. I've already over-stepped the bounds of the thread enough so my fluid replacement tantrum will have to wait. Maybe in a new thread we can hash out the differences in our approaches and why one may be better (or worse) than the other. {back to thread} I also suggest a sharpie with duct tape (good duct tape) wrapped around it. This stuff comes in handy. |
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Posted: 10/7/2008 10:10:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tweeter]
[#2]
The 3.25" is for normal dudes and gals. I packed the 5.25" because I had a fucking 6'6" Apache on my team that weighed 300 pounds and a 'terp that was built about the same (only a LOT softer). To sum it up, size matters. ETA: the LR is there to simply flush the saline lock. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 10/12/2008 7:23:03 PM EDT
[#3]
so as promised, here's the esstac med-rat.
   i dig it, but i think i would want a pouch that separates completely from the rig, like the ats pouch; or the osoe pouch. if it's not mounted on the front of your rig, good luck getting it open and/or closed easily. other than that.... Afriggin+ |
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Posted: 10/17/2008 2:53:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Dude you know they make these things call flush syringes for a Saline/Hep Locks. If you are gonna carry shit outside your scope of practice at least use economy of space
 Don't need to carry a 250ml bag of NS to flush a saline lock unless you are planning on using it for irrigation too, which I would question the utility of in an IFAK. You can't carry the whole kitchen sink so I would just shoot for simple trauma.
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Posted: 10/17/2008 10:02:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tweeter]
[#5]
I carry [2ml] flush syringes. The kit displayed is for a class I gave, the training bag is for just that: training. My scope of practice includes the use of saline locks. But thanks for your concern. ETA: Back at ya. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 10/26/2008 2:02:26 PM EDT
[#6]
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AL, USA
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Posted: 10/26/2008 4:38:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By bp_968: oh my lord..Here is the ultimate med bag (but get your sherpa to carry it for you). Medkit  |
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Posted: 10/26/2008 5:33:55 PM EDT
[#8]
I love the fact this is on a Zombie page. LOL |
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Posted: 10/27/2008 12:56:36 AM EDT
[#9]
i'd love to get an IFAK, but i've got no medical training. where would one procure such training?
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Posted: 10/27/2008 3:59:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#10]
Originally Posted By shiky: Make sure you know at least basic first aid. After that, it depends on your desire to spend $ and time. Look at your local community college and see what they have for courses or community ed. A good next step might be a First Responder course. After that, there are the certifications you commonly see - EMT of varying levels of certification up to Paramedic. RN, MD, etc. There are also some training companies that have courses with more shooting-related emphasis.i'd love to get an IFAK, but i've got no medical training. where would one procure such training? ETA: Even if you don't know how to use all of the IFAK, someone else with training may be able to use the supplies on you. |
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Posted: 10/27/2008 11:30:11 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By sleepdr:
There are also some training companies that have courses with more shooting-related emphasis. ETA: Even if you don't know how to use all of the IFAK, someone else with training may be able to use the supplies on you. +1 to all, but especially these last two. CPR/FA courses are cheap (sometimes free) and easy to find. Before you start looking at an FR/EMT course, explore the possibility of a practical medical / shooting course. Defensive Edge, Tactical Response, and LMS Defense all offer some flavor. ResQDoc (Doc Kieth Brown / Global Medical Rescue Services) is a great source for training as well, though his medical specific classes can be a bit of info overload (not a bad thing, as long as you are prepared for it). Lastly, please remember that your BOK is to be used on you. Most of the folks with training/certs will be carring extra stuff for those who don't have them. |
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Posted: 10/28/2008 2:05:02 AM EDT
[#12]
excuse my ignorance, but whats a BOK? bug out kit?
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/28/2008 7:59:13 AM EDT
[#13]
A BOK is a Blow Out Kit, which is another way of saying your first aid kit.
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Posted: 10/29/2008 5:02:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Are there any med pouches out there that come with the supplies already in them? I am looking for one right now but everything seems to be bare. It would just save alot of hassle if I could fine one that was already complete.
Any help appreciated. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 10/29/2008 5:04:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: calicojack]
[#15]
trg sells one for about $170...
and apparently so does csm gear $140 |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2008 8:17:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By Hemopneumothorax:
A BOK is a Blow Out Kit, which is another way of saying your first aid kit. thats not 100% correct. a first aid kit is just that. all the generic first aid stuff that you can get in any kit thats at K-mart, Walmart, ect. i.e. non life threating, and it should be in it's own pouch, or at least with your GP/utility stuff pouch. a Blow Out Kit is for penetrating trauma, like a gun shot, something you need to fix NOW, or you can die. this stuff should be in any of the 'clamshell' style of med pouches that open up to allow quick/fast access to your supplys. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/14/2008 7:40:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GMZ]
[#17]
This is the SO Tech Medical Aid Pouch bought from SKD. Im really impressed with the quality on this one, definately glad I put up the extra $$ for it.
It fits on either side of the Eagle/SKD rig. Has a subdued med cross on the flap. It is fairly chunky with all the stuff I have in there now, but it could be slimmed down if desired. 
Pulling the top flap (which has both velcro and a button closure) there is space for your tourny, and I have placed some shears there also. 
It clams open when you pull the tab downward and away from you. I cross the zipper pulls in an X shape over the tab when I close the top flap, personal preference. It is not hard to pull down, the zippers are quite smooth, nor will it just flop down on its own if not zipped up all the way and tab closed. 
Here is what Ive got in it right now. Most of the stuff is from my issue IFAK, with some other stuff thrown in there for good measure. It is quite roomy and I can fit quite a bit more in there if need be. Ill be adding one more israeli bandage for sure, and maybe some clotting products, but Im still not sure that kool aid is so sweet. 
There are a few things Id like changed, in my rather un-informed opinion. Id like the front tourny pouch doubled in size and divided so that I can put an israeli bandage in the front and not have to open the main pouch. Id take a reduced internal capacity for this feature. Some elastic loops would be a nice feature to organize a bit better, but Im OCD so take that with a grain of salt. Some rubber or non slip material on the pull tab (I might add this myself) I imagine if you are in a hurry or have blood/fluid on your hands it might be difficult to get a grip on it under pressure. |
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Posted: 11/18/2008 6:56:59 PM EDT
[#18]
BTTT
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Posted: 11/18/2008 11:47:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By GMZ:
This is the SO Tech Medical Aid Pouch bought from SKD. Im really impressed with the quality on this one, definately glad I put up the extra $$ for it. It fits on either side of the Eagle/SKD rig. Has a subdued med cross on the flap. It is fairly chunky with all the stuff I have in there now, but it could be slimmed down if desired. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j140/GMZ_2006/IMG_0804.jpg Pulling the top flap (which has both velcro and a button closure) there is space for your tourny, and I have placed some shears there also. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j140/GMZ_2006/IMG_0806.jpg It clams open when you pull the tab downward and away from you. I cross the zipper pulls in an X shape over the tab when I close the top flap, personal preference. It is not hard to pull down, the zippers are quite smooth, nor will it just flop down on its own if not zipped up all the way and tab closed. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j140/GMZ_2006/IMG_0808.jpg Here is what Ive got in it right now. Most of the stuff is from my issue IFAK, with some other stuff thrown in there for good measure. It is quite roomy and I can fit quite a bit more in there if need be. Ill be adding one more israeli bandage for sure, and maybe some clotting products, but Im still not sure that kool aid is so sweet. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j140/GMZ_2006/IMG_0810.jpg There are a few things Id like changed, in my rather un-informed opinion. Id like the front tourny pouch doubled in size and divided so that I can put an israeli bandage in the front and not have to open the main pouch. Id take a reduced internal capacity for this feature. Some elastic loops would be a nice feature to organize a bit better, but Im OCD so take that with a grain of salt. Some rubber or non slip material on the pull tab (I might add this myself) I imagine if you are in a hurry or have blood/fluid on your hands it might be difficult to get a grip on it under pressure. Looks good to me, not too much, not too little. |
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ME, USA
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Posted: 11/19/2008 12:28:46 AM EDT
[#20]
The Magnum in the IFAK kind of confuses me, but I guess you never can be too safe!
Good looking piece of kit, I wanted to get one in CB but SKD is out... 
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MA, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2008 8:24:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Hey- The pistol mag pouches on the front of your chest rig- That looks like 4 individual flaps instead of the standard two flaps- did you do that mod yourself?
Originally Posted By GMZ:
This is the SO Tech Medical Aid Pouch bought from SKD. Im really impressed with the quality on this one, definately glad I put up the extra $$ for it. It fits on either side of the Eagle/SKD rig. Has a subdued med cross on the flap. It is fairly chunky with all the stuff I have in there now, but it could be slimmed down if desired. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j140/GMZ_2006/IMG_0804.jpg |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2008 9:34:19 PM EDT
[#22]
I did mod the pistol mag pouches by heating up a knife on the stove and using it to split them up so no loose ends are present. Worked out good, I couldnt stand the big double flap.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2008 8:09:51 PM EDT
[#23]
I got my Tactical tailor tear off pad in today. something that i didn't know about it was that it has four snaps on it. one on each corner. it makes the pouch stick off my plate carrier a tad more than i would like, but it'll work.
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Posted: 12/13/2008 3:18:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#24]
Originally Posted By SectorClear:
Originally Posted By sleepdr:
FWIW, I'll be taking the ATLS class later this year from the newest edition of the manual. It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, they say about hemorrhage control prior to the traditional ABCDEs in the PHTLS setting. I know in the past that their doctrine has lagged a little behind lessons learned from modern combat & emphasized airway first. We base our protocol on the MARCH acronym, Massive bleeding, Airway, Respiration, Circulation, Hypotension. The emphasis is on stopping the bleeding foremost. Why breathe for the guy if there isn't any blood to move the O2 around? Just recerted and it';s the same old "civy" stuff. We still rely on our .mil instruction for the latest and greatest. I've already over-stepped the bounds of the thread enough so my fluid replacement tantrum will have to wait. Maybe in a new thread we can hash out the differences in our approaches and why one may be better (or worse) than the other. {back to thread} [hijack] Minor hijack from me here for an AAR of the ATLS class. Our group was one of the first to do ATLS from the 8th edition of the manual. There's now a good section in the book that addresses austere/hostile environments, TC3, and disaster management. Tourniquets are again considered as viable devices at the right time (something those of us in the OR who use them all the time already knew, but books always lag reality). It helped that we had a couple students & instructors familiar with the latest from Iraq. The PHTLS/TC3 discussion addressed stopping life-threatening bleeding, as well as appropriate fluid replacement including colloids & hypertonic saline. Permissive hypotension was discussed, as well as when the pressure needs to be higher (i.e. blowing off fresh clots w/ hypertension, or underperfusing the brain with hypotension). FWIW, I wasn't in any way advocating dumping fluids into actively bleeding combat casualty patients. I suspect we probably don't really have a major disagreement about fluid management. It needs to be handled carefully and judiciously, knowing when and when not to give fluids. My comments were solely directed at people who think a 22g IV is a "big hose." If that's all you can get, it's better than nothing. If the vein can take a 14g, though, then I gripe b/c that's one less site we can use for resuscitation at our definitive care site. [/hijack] If anyone's looking for a very nice BOK, check out this Maritime Assault Kit on eBay from North American Rescue Products. If I didn't already have a NARP CCRK "Medic/Leg Rig," a "Squad Kit," and a whole bunch of miscellaneous gear that still needs to get organized into a STOMP bag, I'd buy this one. Heck, I may buy it anyway. A guy can never have too much first aid stuff, right? Besides, my leg rig is a larger black pouch, and I'd like a tan one that's smaller. Now off to ask Santa.  In all seriousness, I'm highly impressed with the NARP kits. They're not cheap, but the organization and quality are excellent.
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Posted: 1/18/2009 4:59:23 PM EDT
[#25]
bump for this not to die
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Posted: 1/18/2009 6:10:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By starduks:
bump for this not to die This thread won't die. Joker has set the option to keep this thread from being archived during the quarterly site clean up. 
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USA
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Posted: 3/5/2009 6:47:56 PM EDT
[#27]
So I'm looking to put an IFAK together and have gathered this list of items to incorporate. No medical experience, just looking for some input. What do I need, what should I get rid of?
CAT Israeli Bandage 4"X4" Guaze Kerlix 4" Triangle Bandage Any other Bandages? Burn shit? Quickclot Guaze? Powder? Hyfin Chest Seal EMT Shears Gloves Some Tape? Ace Wrap? Wetnaps Aspirin Saftey Pins? Foil Blanket Also looking for a pouch to house it all on an SKD/Universal. Thinking ATS small, Eagle Med or the S.O Tech 1 page back. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2009 7:09:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: calicojack]
[#28]
Originally Posted By LPCVT:
So I'm looking to put an IFAK together and have gathered this list of items to incorporate. No medical experience, just looking for some input. What do I need, what should I get rid of? CAT x4 (one per appendage) Israeli Bandage x2 4"X4" Guaze Kerlix 4" Triangle Bandage Any other Bandages? Burn shit? your unit medic should carry it, but a small little packet wouldn't hurt Quickclot Guaze? Powder? sponge Hyfin Chest Seal get a bolin $20 from trg EMT Shears Gloves Some Tape? both cav arms and trg sell the small rolls of duct tape Ace Wrap? ditch it Wetnaps Aspirin ditch it Saftey Pins? Foil Blanket ditch it Also looking for a pouch to house it all on an SKD/Universal. Thinking ATS small, Eagle Med or the S.O Tech 1 page back.this |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2009 3:35:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Voodoo Tactical sells some nice MOLLE med pouches.
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Posted: 6/5/2009 9:21:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tommytrauma]
[#30]
Originally Posted By LPCVT:
So I'm looking to put an IFAK together and have gathered this list of items to incorporate. No medical experience, just looking for some input. What do I need, what should I get rid of? LPC, you're combining the contents of a blow out kit and a first aid kit there. You're going to find that it's a bit much to fit on second line gear, nad that it'll be a pain to access the important stuff in a hurry. I'd suggest you consider breaknig it down into a blow out kit on your second line, stocked only with the gear needed for major trauma with a focus on self aid, and a second FAK in your third line or elsewhere on your second line where it wont interfere with accessing the critical stuff. CAT Good piece of gear. I've found the SOF-T slightly more secure and easier to use, but the CAT is fine. Anyone telling you that you need 4 is going a tad overboard. Israeli Bandage Another fine piece of kit, and quite functional. The Olaes bandage is a bit more versatile, offering a pressure dressing, packing material and an occlusive dressing in one package though, and I like the periodic velcro 'stop strips' on the Olaes wrap which keep it from unwrapping if you slip while applying it. You also need to plan for at least two holes. The .mil dressings arent as nice as the Olaes, izzie, etc, but they pack flat nad the packaging is robust as hell. I like them for the second dressing in blow out kits. 4"X4" Guaze Very handy in a first aid kit, but not a good use of space in a BOK. Kerlix 4" H&H sells vacuum packed kerlex which takes up little space, and is handy for wound packing. Otherwise, kerlix is best relegated to the first aid kit. Triangle Bandage In the first aid kit if there's room. I can sling and swathe as well with vet wrap though, so a triangular bandage would be one of the first things I'd lose if space / weight concerns come up. Any other Bandages? A roll of vet wrap or coban is great in a first aid kit for splinting, sling and swathe, functioning better then an ACE wrap for wrapping an ankle, yadda yadda. You can even get it in "tactical" black, but it's nice to be able to see blood on bandages easily.] Burn shit? Nope. Unless you're using prescription silvadine, don't put stuff on anything worse then a sunburn. Quickclot Guaze? Powder? I'll try to pare my usual rant down - I'm a paramedic with 20 years of experience now. Gunshot wounds, chainsaw injuries, degloving farm injuries, yadda yadda. Haven't yet encountered a bleed that couldn't be controlled via conventional means. Until very recently, I've seen QC and the rest of the hemostatics as causing more problems then they solve. However, combat gauze and celox gauze appear to have resolved all the older issues (thrombosis, burning of viable tissue, people ignoring the basics 'cause they were busy pouring magic pixie powder onto the wound...) Using combat guaze / celox requires the care provider to either pack the wound or at least use direct pressure, with the added bonus of the impregnated hemostatic. SO, if you feel like you must carry some sort of hemostatic, go with one of those two. Don't let anyone convince you you're underequipped without it though. Hyfin Chest Seal Hyfin, Bolin, Asherman... they're all good. Cary one, and be ready to seal additional holes with a wrapper off one of your bandages nad duct tape. EMT Shears Yup. If you want to spend the money, consider supplementing theme with a Benchmade 7hook. I absolutely love mine, nad have used my shears seldom since getting the hook. Much much faster. Gloves At least two pair, sized for your hands. Some Tape? Duct tape, wrapped flat around a section of business card or whatever. Fold the running edge over so you can peel it easily, and be aware that it's one of the first things to degrade in a kit. (It turns into a blob) "Medical" tape doesn't stick to sweaty skin wirth shit. Duct tape can be used to tape dressings in place, as an occlusive itself, to tape fingers / toes together for splinting, yadda yadda. Ace Wrap? Vet wrap or coban is better for immobilization, more versatile and cheaper. Handy in the first aid kit, too bulky for a blow out kit. Wetnaps The antibacterial version, in the first aid kit. Aspirin [span style='color: blue;'] I prefer ibuprophen, along with immodium, benadryl nad whatever other OTC you expect to need in the first aid kit. Walgreens sells small ziplocks, perfect for packaging OTC meds nad they even come in a slightly larger ziplock, perfect for keeping your selection together. Write the med and dosage on each bag. Saftey Pins? [span style='color: blue;']In the FAK. Foil Blanket Ineffective, a pain to use and noisy. Also looking for a pouch to house it all on an SKD/Universal. Thinking ATS small, Eagle Med or the S.O Tech 1 page back.[/quote] |
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Posted: 6/5/2009 9:42:25 PM EDT
[#31]
i run the paraclete SOF> , matter of fact all of my pouches are paracletes.
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Posted: 7/25/2009 2:21:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
Some Tape? Duct tape, wrapped flat around a section of business card or whatever. Fold the running edge over so you can peel it easily, and be aware that it's one of the first things to degrade in a kit. (It turns into a blob) "Medical" tape doesn't stick to sweaty skin wirth shit. Duct tape can be used to tape dressings in place, as an occlusive itself, to tape fingers / toes together for splinting, yadda yadda. Sort of resurrecting a dead thread here but NARP also makes Gecko grip tape which is a really small roll of duct tape. I carry them in grenade pouches as I'm not issued grenades, fits great. Also, anybody got any pictures of the Eagle med pouch? The only pics I can find are sort of crap quality. Looks like they've got restraints for a 500ml bag of solution? |
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Posted: 7/25/2009 4:10:26 PM EDT
[#33]
I have this:
Maxpedition FIGHT Med Pouch Stocked with this: Cavalry Arms ICMK It's at 4 o'clock on my plate carrier. The upside is it holds everything and it's tear-away. The downside is....it's friggin' huge. I'll be taking it off my PC and putting it on a pack, splitting the kit into two smaller pouches, probably ESSTAC Medrats. I also own the HSGI Blowout/Bleeder pouch and it's pretty small. It'll barely hold what you need to patch a hole. It's on my SKD chest rig for now. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2009 5:07:09 PM EDT
[#34]
the esstac medrats are smaller than the bleeder pouch. i have had three, sold two, and use one for a radio pouch.
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Posted: 7/25/2009 6:17:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Originally Posted By 6Demon6Face6:
I also own the HSGI Blowout/Bleeder pouch and it's pretty small. It'll barely hold what you need to patch a hole. It's on my SKD chest rig for now. I agree they're pretty small - I think of them as roughly the same size as a triple M4 mag pouch. I have 2, each with a VOK from Tactical Response crammed in there. That's a tight fit, and you won't be cramming everything back inside quickly - that's OK; if I open that BOK, chances are that I won't be trying to put it all back in there in the field. I keep the tourniquet on top, so it can be the first item out of the pouch. They're useful for limited real estate and a minimalist blowout kit if you know how to use the stuff. I also keep a VOK in an ATS pull-out med pouch inside a Nalgene pouch. Much larger, but also easier to access. Then there's an augmented VOK in a Maxpedition FR-1 (not a bad setup), my NARP Medic Leg rig in the closet, a NARP Squad kit behind the seat in my truck, and the mega-filled STOMP bag secured at home for serious emergencies (IVs, pulse ox, BP cuff, steth, Kendrick splint, airway, meds, minor field surg kit, etc.) ...it's a sickness; another form of gear acquisition syndrome.
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MA, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2009 6:21:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By LPCVT:
So I'm looking to put an IFAK together and have gathered this list of items to incorporate. No medical experience, just looking for some input. What do I need, what should I get rid of? CAT Israeli Bandage 4"X4" Guaze Kerlix 4" Triangle Bandage Any other Bandages? Burn shit? Quickclot Guaze? Powder? Hyfin Chest Seal EMT Shears Gloves Some Tape? Ace Wrap? Wetnaps Aspirin Saftey Pins? Foil Blanket Also looking for a pouch to house it all on an SKD/Universal. Thinking ATS small, Eagle Med or the S.O Tech 1 page back. I would also recommend 2 14Ga X 3in decompression needles for your blow out kit. Especially if you are worried about penetrating chest trauma. Skiddy |
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Posted: 7/25/2009 8:42:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By Skiddy79:
Originally Posted By LPCVT:
So I'm looking to put an IFAK together and have gathered this list of items to incorporate. No medical experience, just looking for some input. What do I need, what should I get rid of? CAT Israeli Bandage 4"X4" Guaze Kerlix 4" Triangle Bandage Any other Bandages? Burn shit? Quickclot Guaze? Powder? Hyfin Chest Seal EMT Shears Gloves Some Tape? Ace Wrap? Wetnaps Aspirin Saftey Pins? Foil Blanket Also looking for a pouch to house it all on an SKD/Universal. Thinking ATS small, Eagle Med or the S.O Tech 1 page back. I would also recommend 2 14Ga X 3in decompression needles for your blow out kit. Especially if you are worried about penetrating chest trauma. Skiddy You did see the 'no medical experience' comment, right? |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 1:24:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Neat ideAS guys.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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MA, USA
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Posted: 7/30/2009 4:04:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
Originally Posted By Skiddy79:
Originally Posted By LPCVT:
So I'm looking to put an IFAK together and have gathered this list of items to incorporate. No medical experience, just looking for some input. What do I need, what should I get rid of? CAT Israeli Bandage 4"X4" Guaze Kerlix 4" Triangle Bandage Any other Bandages? Burn shit? Quickclot Guaze? Powder? Hyfin Chest Seal EMT Shears Gloves Some Tape? Ace Wrap? Wetnaps Aspirin Saftey Pins? Foil Blanket Also looking for a pouch to house it all on an SKD/Universal. Thinking ATS small, Eagle Med or the S.O Tech 1 page back. I would also recommend 2 14Ga X 3in decompression needles for your blow out kit. Especially if you are worried about penetrating chest trauma. Skiddy You did see the 'no medical experience' comment, right? I guess it depends on your intended use of the pouch. All of the guys I rolled with overseas carried gear that they weren't necessarily gonna use on themselves or others. The medics would use the individual's kit on them, augmented by the medic's buddy aid gear. With this methodology, you can have a tailored BOK for your specific situation, allergies, mission, etc. This is a very cheap piece of kit (about $2.50) that might be a life saver in actual situation, when advanced care is around but not right there. YMMV Skiddy |
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Posted: 8/1/2009 12:43:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Spyder7]
[#40]
Originally Posted By 6Demon6Face6: I have this: Maxpedition FIGHT Med Pouch Stocked with this: Cavalry Arms ICMK It's at 4 o'clock on my plate carrier. The upside is it holds everything and it's tear-away. The downside is....it's friggin' huge. I'll be taking it off my PC and putting it on a pack, splitting the kit into two smaller pouches, probably ESSTAC Medrats. I also own the HSGI Blowout/Bleeder pouch and it's pretty small. It'll barely hold what you need to patch a hole. It's on my SKD chest rig for now. I had the same plans for the FIGHT. It was way to big to fit under my arm comfortably, so I went with the ATS Blow Out Pouch. It holds all my trauma supplies comfortably. I also just ordered a Emdom BOMB, but planning on using it for a rifle parts/survival pouch (needed something close to a 5X5 pouch width being the driving factor). |
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Posted: 8/1/2009 7:31:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#41]
I'm partial to Tactical Response Gear's Ventilated Operator Kit, but I'm trained on it.
Remember, a VoK/BoK is going to be used ON you, not BY you. Having stuff there that you might not be trained on isn't a bad idea in case an EMT trained or First Responder shows up and DOES know how to. Get some good medical training, though. Either take the Red Crosses basic first aid stuff or search out a specialized class like Immediate Action Medical, since you're far more likely to need medical training than marksmanship. And to keep in line with the original topic, I prefer ATS's small med pouch. Holds the above plus a little and isn't obtrusive on your gear. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2009 7:41:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By Paulie771:
I'm partial to Tactical Response Gear's Ventilated Operator Kit, but I'm trained on it. Remember, a VoK/BoK is going to be used ON you, not BY you. Having stuff there that you might not be trained on isn't a bad idea in case an EMT trained or First Responder shows up and DOES know how to. Get some good medical training, though. Either take the Red Crosses basic first aid stuff or search out a specialized class like Immediate Action Medical, since you're far more likely to need medical training than marksmanship. And to keep in line with the original topic, I prefer ATS's small med pouch. Holds the above plus a little and isn't obtrusive on your gear. paulie, since you have the camera handy, and no one else has done it yet, can you snap up some pics of your ats pouch? |
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Posted: 8/1/2009 9:06:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paulie771]
[#43]
Mounted on my OSOE AK/M4 chest rig
Undo the fastex 
Rip the pouch off the included velcro panel 
Unzip to open the clam shell pouch 
Contents of Tactical Response Gear's VoK kit (Combat Gauze not included). I will an Asherman and some Celox eventually 
Contents left to right, top to bottom since I didn't have all labels facing up: 14 ga. catheter (for relieving tension pneumo thorax) Alcohol prep pad w/ 2 safety pins behind it (numerous uses, such asfishing out and pinning a tongue to a lip/cheek) Roll of duct tape H-bandage 2 pair of Nitrile gloves Naso pharengeal airway w/ small packet of lube QuikClot combat gauze TK-4 Tourniquet Primed Gauze (vaccum packed) |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2009 9:17:03 PM EDT
[#44]
i really need to get a different tourniquet. i've got one of the bulky as hell c.a.t.s. also need to swap my granular QC for some sponges, get a bolin, and a few other items. getting a TR VOK would be a good start. i just need to get off my ass and order one when they get some more.
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Posted: 8/1/2009 9:23:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Originally Posted By calicojack:
i really need to get a different tourniquet. i've got one of the bulky as hell c.a.t.s. also need to swap my granular QC for some sponges, get a bolin, and a few other items. getting a TR VOK would be a good start. i just need to get off my ass and order one when they get some more. What kind of tourniquet are you looking for that is less bulky than a CAT? |
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Posted: 8/1/2009 9:27:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#46]
FWIW, I've read some reports that the TK4 may not be quite as effective as the CAT. Don't take my word for it, though, since that may refer to previous generations of the Tourni-quick that had a more elasticized constricting band. Hopefully some folks with operational experience using both of them can chime in.
I carry TK4s with my VOKs, but my larger kits are liberally stocked with CATs. I can easily apply the CAT to one of my arms one-handed and actuate it effectively. Of course, I've also done the same thing with a cravat and a stick, but that's much more kludgy and low-speed. Earlier this year, I used a blood pressure cuff inflated to 300mm HG, several wraps of tape, and a plastic clamp to hold the tubing in place. That was an expedient solution that worked after a very expensive pneumatic tourni failed on a traumatically amputated limb. 
ETA: Disregard above strike-out area. I was remembering partially correctly but reviewed the Navy study from 2007. Someone please correct me if I've strayed from my lane on this. I use tourniquets in the OR, but it's pretty infrequent that I have to apply a tqt to save someone's life due to hemorrhage before the OR. TK3 had higher failure rate. TK4 failure rate is improved. Arterial occlusion appears reasonable for both the CAT and TK4. For most of our purposes, that discussion is probably a little over the top. Both varieties of tqts are listed as performing adequately, with subjective scores (i.e. user preference) favoring the TK4. That suggests choosing whichever of the two fits your needs in terms of packed size and user preference. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2009 9:38:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By calicojack:
i really need to get a different tourniquet. i've got one of the bulky as hell c.a.t.s. also need to swap my granular QC for some sponges, get a bolin, and a few other items. getting a TR VOK would be a good start. i just need to get off my ass and order one when they get some more. What kind of tourniquet are you looking for that is less bulky than a CAT? the one that paulie is running. it's avail through trg, and seems to compact a bit smaller than the cat i have. look at page three and you'll see how big the one i have is. |
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Posted: 8/1/2009 9:58:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By calicojack:
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By calicojack:
i really need to get a different tourniquet. i've got one of the bulky as hell c.a.t.s. also need to swap my granular QC for some sponges, get a bolin, and a few other items. getting a TR VOK would be a good start. i just need to get off my ass and order one when they get some more. What kind of tourniquet are you looking for that is less bulky than a CAT? the one that paulie is running. it's avail through trg, and seems to compact a bit smaller than the cat i have. look at page three and you'll see how big the one i have is. I'm familiar with the CAT. In terms of bulk, they aren't really all that bad for me, but I carry SOF-Ts which are heavier and bulkier than the CAT. I've never really been much of a believer in the Tourni-Quick. The ones I saw in use in '03 were of an earlier generation than the TK-4, so maybe the deficiencies in them have been corrected, but they sucked. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/1/2009 10:00:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By calicojack:
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By calicojack:
i really need to get a different tourniquet. i've got one of the bulky as hell c.a.t.s. also need to swap my granular QC for some sponges, get a bolin, and a few other items. getting a TR VOK would be a good start. i just need to get off my ass and order one when they get some more. What kind of tourniquet are you looking for that is less bulky than a CAT? the one that paulie is running. it's avail through trg, and seems to compact a bit smaller than the cat i have. look at page three and you'll see how big the one i have is. I'm familiar with the CAT. In terms of bulk, they aren't really all that bad for me, but I carry SOF-Ts which are heavier and bulkier than the CAT. I've never really been much of a believer in the Tourni-Quick. The ones I saw in use in '03 were of an earlier generation than the TK-4, so maybe the deficiencies in them have been corrected, but they sucked. as i'm not familiar with them, and for informational purposes.... how so? |
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Posted: 8/1/2009 10:08:11 PM EDT
[#50]
The kit I keep in my trunk is loaded down with TK4s. I keep a Cav Arms TQ on my gear within easy reach outside of this kit. As small and as affordable as TK4s are, there's no reason not to have a couple if you have the room.
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