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Posted: 3/27/2006 12:01:03 AM EDT
Any suggestions? Looking for a less than lethal alternative to supplement my carry weapon. Also, applicable laws, if anyone has knowledge of them, would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:08:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jackt308:
Any suggestions? Looking for a less than lethal alternative to supplement my carry weapon. Also, applicable laws, if anyone has knowledge of them, would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.



Anything 10% OC in a stream. I don't think there are any restrictions on carry here in VA (altho I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) but it's illegal as hell in DC.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:45:53 AM EDT
Fox Labs: 6oz Tear Gas Grenade

Its not actually a "grenade" per se, but if you throw it on a hard surface it locks and continually discharges. Haven't used it yet, but do have it, so I don't know how well it works. Supposed to be highly rated. Just don't accidently drop it in your house, others better put the M17A2 on
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:49:26 AM EDT
Fox Labs seems to the usual suspect when this topic comes up.

www.selfdefenseproducts.com/sprays.htm


www.foxlabs.com/FoxLabs.html
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 7:18:07 AM EDT
I would go with something in the cone to fog range. The more vaporized the spray is, the easier it is inhaled. Also I advice a bunch of training units, same make, size, pattern as the carry spray.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 7:32:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrKasab:
I would go with something in the cone to fog range. The more vaporized the spray is, the easier it is inhaled. Also I advice a bunch of training units, same make, size, pattern as the carry spray.




Until it blows back into your own face.

Go with FOX LABS hands down, the Scoville Heat rating is 5.3 million, you can't touch that. Go with a stream not a cone. Do you want to reach out 15-20 feet or only 5-10 feet?

Fox Labs Pepper Spray in a stream.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 7:41:47 AM EDT
+1 on Fox
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:00:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:

Originally Posted By MrKasab:
I would go with something in the cone to fog range. The more vaporized the spray is, the easier it is inhaled. Also I advice a bunch of training units, same make, size, pattern as the carry spray.




Until it blows back into your own face.

Go with FOX LABS hands down, the Scoville Heat rating is 5.3 million, you can't touch that. Go with a stream not a cone. Do you want to reach out 15-20 feet or only 5-10 feet?

Fox Labs Pepper Spray in a stream.




Definite agreement here.

I recommend buying a couple of the inert units to practice with. Especially with the stream. The stream is much narrower than the fog but does have much greater range. That way you can know what kind of distance and dispersion rates you can expect. It's cheap insurance.

And get some of the Sudecon wipes too.

The effect of OC spray is different than CS spray. OC spray doesn't need to be inhaled for good effectiveness. That's why it generally works faster than CS spray.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:57:41 PM EDT
If the Scoville Heat rating is 5.3 million it is by far powerful. Thats 5 times as strong as Quaker Steak and Lube's Atomic Wings, I would be crying like a baby if I got hit in the Face with that....
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:26:59 PM EDT
Sabre Red is pretty good.

But Fox Labs makes some pretty hot stuff (5 mil SHU)

Stream is best, foam sucks (can be wiped off and flung back on you), cone doesn't have the range.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:45:40 PM EDT
Have you considered the foam? Cant remember who makes it.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:06:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Delta068:
If the Scoville Heat rating is 5.3 million it is by far powerful. Thats 5 times as strong as Quaker Steak and Lube's Atomic Wings, I would be crying like a baby if I got hit in the Face with that....



oh how i miss the lube.

stream is the best. fog can blow back at you, foam can be thrown back at you. if you do choose to carry it, have someone spray you with it. better to know the feeling, its a shock. much worse than cs, in a diff way. you got about 15 seconds to get done whatever you gotta do, after that your eyes arent opening for very long and with extreme pain. it will work on dogs too.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:57:03 PM EDT
If you're going aerosol then fox labs is the one I've always heard was the best.

There's always www.jetprotector.com/
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:21:54 PM EDT
Another Vote for FOX
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:45:53 PM EDT
Freeze +P aka "Liquid Hate".
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:29:05 AM EDT
Get something with at least 2million SHU and 5%-10% OC. The higher the percentage, the more actual pepper in there, and thus longer to decontaminate (ie get the crap off you). Obviously the higher the SHU rating, the hotter, but truthfully, after being sprayed by both 2M and 5.3M, I couldn't tell the difference - it's all misery after a certain point.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:53:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 4:54:01 AM EDT by wildearp]
Taser.

I also put a bit of extracted Habanero in my first hollow point.

Seriously, consider a Taser. (pepper spray has been associated with deaths too)
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:43:36 AM EDT
I dunno about the different brands, but I don't really see that much of a diff between 3 or 5 million Scoville Units. 5% of the population isn't going to react to the spray, period. The other 95% isn't going to go down any quicker or harder at 5 million than at 2 or 3. Any 10% OC will make it so you can't see, can't breathe, and feel like someone threw a pan of hot bacon grease in your face. Mission accomplished.

I'll also restate my preference for the stream and second the rec for training units. There are a couple different methods of employment. I prefer trying to hit COM with the stream to index it on the body and then going to the face. Other people like to try to make a big "X" with the stream with the center being on the face. Try and see what works best for you.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:20:31 AM EDT
ever try to hit some moving object while you are moving with a stream oc????
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:34:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cato:
ever try to hit some moving object while you are moving with a stream oc????



Yep. It's more difficult to use accurately than a fogger, but it's much more forgiving of blowback/moving into the area you've sprayed/confined places. It's a tradeoff, but I think it's worth it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:25:43 AM EDT
I had cause to use my Fox 5.3 about 2 years ago. And was less then impressed. The nozzle broke and failed to discharge in a fog pattern. I ended up getting more on me then the DB (dirt bag-ette) did. The spray had no immediate effect on her at all. At first I chalked it up to Fox being junk. But I came to realize that she was completely 2-20. Anyway to make along story short I now carry Body Guard brand fogger.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:12:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cato:
ever try to hit some moving object while you are moving with a stream oc????



Yes I have, and yes I have sprayed people with it. OC, regardless of pattern, is not a precision weapon. OC starts vaporizing almost immediately after it comes out the nozzle, so cross contamination is a fact of life. A week ago, I sprayed a woman from about three feet away, got her square in the face, and people within five feet of either side were still hacking and yacking from the splatter and vapor. Heck, I was hacking and yacking. It's going to happen.

The point that I (along with METT-T) am trying to make is that one way to reduce that cross-contamination is to go with a stream patter, or at least a very heavy cone like what FoxLabs uses. The finer the spray gets, ie with foggers, the significantly higher the chance of people who you don't necessarily want to get sprayed, getting sprayed.

Whenever I carry OC, I always have a Sudecon wipe in my back pocket. It takes up the same space as a McDonald's napkin, and makes your life much much easier if or when you get OC on yourself.


Woot! 1000th post!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:40:28 PM EDT
every time I have used OC (duty) it has had the desired effect, however I always got some on me too.
with stream you need to worry about "hydraulic needle effect" if used as super close range it may damage the eyes due to the pressure it is under.

But then again, if you do something that makes me spray you expect no sympathy from me.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:44:33 PM EDT


Anything 10% OC in a stream. I don't think there are any restrictions on carry here in VA (altho I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) but it's illegal as hell in DC.



that's why i steer clear of dc...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:30:35 PM EDT


Anything 10% OC in a stream. I don't think there are any restrictions on carry here in VA (altho I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) but it's illegal as hell in DC.


Since when? I've always been told that OC was the one thing you could have in the district.
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