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Posted: 2/5/2006 3:16:33 PM EDT
I'm going to get some new camo and a new armor carrier in the next couple of weeks and I can't decide on which to get. I really like the looks of the ACU but I think that the Multicam probably blends in with more types of terrain than the ACU, plus the ACU is much more reasonably priced. Any opinions?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:33:02 PM EDT
The multicam be 'spensive.

The ACU stuff will be far more available. I just got the new Blackhawk catalog and most of their molle gear (which I like) is now available in ACU...but they did mark up the price of the ACU stuff 10-20% over the other colors
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:57:10 PM EDT
OD green BDUs.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:32:22 PM EDT
I give the Army five years to figure out that the ACU patern sucks and they start looking for something new. I like the ACU uniform, just not the pattern. Multi-Cam is a better pattern and a better (and tougher) uniform. It may be more expensive but you get what you pay for and everyone is jumping on the ACU pattern (because it's Army issue now), making it cheaper. If you want a good color for your gear that you dont want to change every few years to keep up with the "cool kids", get it in OD or Coyote Brown. If you dont mind keeping up with the cool kids, get the ACU and you will realize you really don't blend into much, hopefully the Army will figure that out soon too.


SGT Matthew Magwire
3-172 INFANTRY (MOUNTAIN)
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:59:09 PM EDT
I don't care about being like the "cool kids", I just want the best camo. I want it for just casual wear and and SHTF type of situations. I want something that's going to blend in well in urban as well as rural settings. I think that the multicam is the better pattern of the two without a doubt and you're right you get what you pay for. As far a being better made is that across the board between the two? I want stuff that's going to hold up long term.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:58:04 PM EDT

IMHO Multicam is the best thing going. My new rig has a combo of multicam, OD and coyote pouches. As for BDU, I really like the MARPAT or some faded out woodlands. Multicam too much $$$ for me.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:44:43 PM EDT
Multicam is the most versatile camo on the market today. I am currently an industrial designer (product design) and first read about MC in an issue of ID, a design publication, a couple years ago. It was a cover story and the article about Crye Associates and their work with the military was fascinating. They talked about how they developed the camo over a 4 year span, using various imaging and studying how the mind works and reads colors, substances, surfaces, outlines, etc. It really is the best stuff around. The reason it didn't get chosen is that the final decision-makers for the army were unaware of its existance (which may or may not have been intentional as the in-house army designers wouldn't have wanted to be shown up by a group of 9 kids).

Anyway, as it is plainly visible, the ACU pattern doesn't blend in with anything except a gravel parking lot. Many people claim that it is superior to MC simply because it was adopted by the Army. However, anybody who has actually served in the military knows that not every decision they make is the right one. There seems to be a lot theory put behind the design of both patterns. However, MC actually produces results. By the way, I've seen some pictures of the ACU stuff from Blackhawk. They somehow screwed it up and everything that is supposed to gray turned out almost white.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:32:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:53:03 AM EDT
multicam or if not C.B.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:58:47 AM EDT
OD and some Coyote mixed in makes seems to break it up real good


I wouldn't mind getting some Multicam, but it is way too spendy for me
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:54:44 AM EDT
I never thought about a solid color such as OD or CB, any suggestions on a good mfg. of one color BDU's? Price is the only thing that keeps me from getting Multicam, any idea why it is so expensive?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:54:09 AM EDT
like it was stated above if your in a urban enviroment id say go with the new army pattern. if your in a arid region id go with a solid coyote BDUs and if in a green enviroment OD BDUs.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:31:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 1:34:20 PM EDT by DVCAPI]

Originally Posted By HillBillySniper:
if your in a arid region id go with a solid coyote BDUs and if in a green enviroment OD BDUs.



If you're in a green enviroment and wearing CB bdu's get some grass stains on them to break up the pattern.

If you're in a arid region and wearing OD bdu's smear some dirt/ mud on them to break up the pattern.

Instant camo from either.

What ever happened to using local vegation to augment your camo?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:14:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DVCAPI:

Originally Posted By HillBillySniper:
if your in a arid region id go with a solid coyote BDUs and if in a green enviroment OD BDUs.



If you're in a green enviroment and wearing CB bdu's get some grass stains on them to break up the pattern.

If you're in a arid region and wearing OD bdu's smear some dirt/ mud on them to break up the pattern.

Instant camo from either.

What ever happened to using local vegation to augment your camo?



That's for sniper wannabes...

Honestly I think it comes from that fact that after spending a few hundred dollars on gear and camo that last thought that goes through the mind is how can I get this covered in dirt and grass stains.

One thing you can do is get a bottle of chlorophyll and use a paint brush to "detail" your BDUs. Let it dry, either a lot or a little depending on how dark you want the marks, and then wash it a few times in just water. Some of the chlorophyll will bleed out and tint the BDUs a more natural green and the marks that stay are just the shade of green as real grass.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:33:08 PM EDT
ha my old man was telling me when he was in force recon the first thing they did was roll on the ground to blend in better.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:59:03 PM EDT
MilitaryMorons.com has a good comparison on their website of multicam, ACU and Woodland Camo. Look under Sitemap-Camouflage and you will see it. I was quite impressed by how well the MC blends into many backgrounds and you can clearly see where the ACU in most backgrounds does not. For my money my next purchase is going to be MC.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:19:19 PM EDT
The biggest expense with MC are the uniforms. Web gear can be had for comprable if not same price as other colors/patterns. Hopefully Proper or someone else will come out with less expensive versions.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:41:02 PM EDT
Although the MC pants/jackets are pricey, the ones made by good companies are bomb-proof. Crye has most of their stuff back in stock now...
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:48:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 6:53:08 PM EDT by 19-kilo]
BHI ACU products look like shit. The pixalation is off and the colors I have seen look like crap.
As for MC. Here are a couple of bits of my new kit.
The assault bag is a Kifaru Maruader
The chest rig is a Boar from Stu at Esstac, both in MC.

^^^CLICK TO ENLARGE^^^

Oh, as far as a single color goes? Black was 3 years ago, CB was last year...this year its Khaki! Original 1939 issue colors are back, it is all the rage.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:25:37 PM EDT
no camo is gonna look good every were. thats why i have a set of desert and woodland MARPAT. for desert its way better then MC and in woodland its waaaaayyyy better then MC.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:45:54 PM EDT
I am wondering how this camo would work for hunting clothes? Maybe someone like Cabela's or Red Head could make some clothing and outer wear in MC. Not that I've found camo to be necessary when hunting, but how can I be one of the cool guys in the gas station opening morning unless I am in a cool new camoflage?


96Ag
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:12:01 PM EDT
How will a Multicam vest with multicam gear look with other uniforms? Will it contrast with MARPAT or ACU? How well will it blend in with them?

I'm having a hard time deciding whether I should by a vest/carrier in MC or Khaki
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:55:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DVCAPI:
If you're in a green enviroment and wearing CB bdu's


Where might one find Coyote BDU's? Not just tan... but the darker Coyote color.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:04:22 PM EDT
i dont know...... you might just be better going the route of desert MARPAT.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:46:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gamma762:

Originally Posted By DVCAPI:
If you're in a green enviroment and wearing CB bdu's


Where might one find Coyote BDU's? Not just tan... but the darker Coyote color.



My 1884 brown US cav field uniforms are about the same color as CB. Look here for M1884 Enlisted Stable / Fatigue Blouse 1884 US Army uniforms Its funny that what's old is new again. We're going back to a color we used 120 years ago. I know a seamstress in LV, Nv that will custom make me anything i want for a good price. She custom made a wool vest and trousers for me last year for under a $100.00. And my wife said they fit better than any custom fit suit I've bought.

What good are the leg pockets on BDU's when you're wearing sub-loads on both legs? And the jacket pockets are covered by chest rigs or plate carriers. You might as well get something custom with pockets located where you can use them with your LBE.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:06:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 11:06:48 PM EDT by Scollins]
My brand-spanking-new Tactical Tailor custom IBA in MC and some pouches....



Damn digital camera makes nylon gear look really funky....
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 2:05:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 2:22:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Scollins:



Is that picture with or without armor?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:37:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

Originally Posted By Scollins:
home.comcast.net/~scott.collins4/TT_MC_IBA.jpg



Is that picture with or without armor?



The vest was modified to fit my Safariland IIIA panels, and has front and rear plates (as pictured.)
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:45:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gamma762:

Originally Posted By DVCAPI:
If you're in a green enviroment and wearing CB bdu's


Where might one find Coyote BDU's? Not just tan... but the darker Coyote color.



Ahhh...CB, the Holy Grail of feild uniforms.

Alas, like the Most Holy Grail, they exist only in myth...
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:49:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clasky:

Anyway, as it is plainly visible, the ACU pattern doesn't blend in with anything except a gravel parking lot.



really...

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:45:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:

Originally Posted By clasky:

Anyway, as it is plainly visible, the ACU pattern doesn't blend in with anything except a gravel parking lot.



really...

i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/AyeGuy/acu19.jpg



With the soldier that close to the camera, I'd say yes, it does not blend very well. Now if the picture was taken from a greater distance, we might get a better idea of the effectiveness of the ACU pattern.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:33:39 PM EDT
When I studied cover, concealment, and camo one point they made was how distinctive the human shape was and the need to break up your outline. But not just the human shape but your gear too. The shape of your helmet and other standard gear could be picked out even if the color blended in with your background.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:33:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 4:34:14 AM EDT by clasky]

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:

Originally Posted By clasky:

Anyway, as it is plainly visible, the ACU pattern doesn't blend in with anything except a gravel parking lot.



really...

i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/AyeGuy/acu19.jpg




Yes; really. There is just way too much gray in that uniform. Gray is not a natural color in nature. Unnatural colors are what the human eye is trained to recognize. Even from a distance, this guy would still look like a blob of dark gray. This is also one of the main downfalls of the woodland camo because black is not a reaccuring color in nature either. The best camo for desert so far is the marpat. The only thing he has camoflaged is his foot.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:03:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:25:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clasky:

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:

Originally Posted By clasky:

Anyway, as it is plainly visible, the ACU pattern doesn't blend in with anything except a gravel parking lot.



really...

i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/AyeGuy/acu19.jpg




Yes; really. There is just way too much gray in that uniform. Gray is not a natural color in nature.



Who cares what one finds in nature? Modern wars are fought in a concrete jungle where there are lots and lots of muted shades of grays, tans, and greens. If we ever get deployed to the congo we might be in trouble, but until then this unifrom pattern will do just fine for the American soldier.

Stephen
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:46:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clasky:

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:

Originally Posted By clasky:

Anyway, as it is plainly visible, the ACU pattern doesn't blend in with anything except a gravel parking lot.



really...

i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/AyeGuy/acu19.jpg




Yes; really. There is just way too much gray in that uniform. Gray is not a natural color in nature. Unnatural colors are what the human eye is trained to recognize. Even from a distance, this guy would still look like a blob of dark gray. This is also one of the main downfalls of the woodland camo because black is not a reaccuring color in nature either. The best camo for desert so far is the marpat. The only thing he has camoflaged is his foot.



I'll skip posting pictures of wolves and panthers because I don't feel like finding some.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:40:33 AM EDT
hahahahaha touche
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:54:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 1:00:12 PM EDT by clasky]

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

Originally Posted By clasky:

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:

Originally Posted By clasky:

Anyway, as it is plainly visible, the ACU pattern doesn't blend in with anything except a gravel parking lot.



really...

i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/AyeGuy/acu19.jpg




Yes; really. There is just way too much gray in that uniform. Gray is not a natural color in nature. Unnatural colors are what the human eye is trained to recognize. Even from a distance, this guy would still look like a blob of dark gray. This is also one of the main downfalls of the woodland camo because black is not a reaccuring color in nature either. The best camo for desert so far is the marpat. The only thing he has camoflaged is his foot.



I'll skip posting pictures of wolves and panthers because I don't feel like finding some.




I think you're missing my point. Look at the environment; no grey or black. To your point; ACU will work great if our troops are dancing with wolves and uniforms with black in them will be fine for when they stand in front of panthers... As for the picture posted above, he would still be better off wearing the 3-color DCU's IMO. As an overall camo, MC wins. By the way, I did say that the ACU works well on gravel which makes up a lot of the urban battlefield.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:35:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clasky:

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

Originally Posted By clasky:

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:

Originally Posted By clasky:

Anyway, as it is plainly visible, the ACU pattern doesn't blend in with anything except a gravel parking lot.



really...

i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/AyeGuy/acu19.jpg




Yes; really. There is just way too much gray in that uniform. Gray is not a natural color in nature. Unnatural colors are what the human eye is trained to recognize. Even from a distance, this guy would still look like a blob of dark gray. This is also one of the main downfalls of the woodland camo because black is not a reaccuring color in nature either. The best camo for desert so far is the marpat. The only thing he has camoflaged is his foot.



I'll skip posting pictures of wolves and panthers because I don't feel like finding some.




I think you're missing my point. Look at the environment; no grey or black. To your point; ACU will work great if our troops are dancing with wolves and uniforms with black in them will be fine for when they stand in front of panthers... As for the picture posted above, he would still be better off wearing the 3-color DCU's IMO. As an overall camo, MC wins. By the way, I did say that the ACU works well on gravel which makes up a lot of the urban battlefield.



Tree bark:

Looks pretty gray to me.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:52:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 7:53:22 PM EDT by AyeGuy]
Evidently not all of you realize the colors of the ACU were changed.

Here is the old:



Oh yes very grey.


And here is the new:



I see no grey. There is green, tan, and grey-green.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:00:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 8:43:20 PM EDT by Gamma762]

Originally Posted By DVCAPI:
When I studied cover, concealment, and camo one point they made was how distinctive the human shape was and the need to break up your outline.


And my biggest complaint with ACU is the pattern size is just too small to be effective at breaking up the outline. Not even considering the color issue, the pattern isn't effective at the distances it needs to be.




i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/AyeGuy/acu19.jpg


off topic but he has a carbine stock on that M4.. interesting.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:20:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gamma762:

Originally Posted By DVCAPI:
When I studied cover, concealment, and camo one point they made was how distinctive the human shape was and the need to break up your outline.


And my biggest complaint with ACU is the pattern size is just too small to be effective at breaking up the outline. Not even considering the color issue, the pattern isn't effective at the distances it needs to be.



You're not getting my point, it doesn't matter the size of the pattern at a distance. The straight line of your arms, legs, and torso stand out at a distance. One thing they taught was to tie strips of cloth around your legs etc to break up the shape. The same reason you use vegation in the slits and the camo band of your helmet so it doesn't look like a helmet. The same for your rifle and other gear, someone trained in what to look for can still spot it even if its painted to blend in.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:12:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 8:12:40 AM EDT by SUPERSPORT]
You mean UCP! Universal Camo Pattern.

Why does everyone keep calling it ACU? Army Combat Uniform. That is the pattern of the clothing not the color.

Why are you comparing Multicam, a camo design to ACU, a clothing design?

Its like someone asking 'Multicam or BDU?'

ETA: So many acronyms I confused myself.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 7:22:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 7:50:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By keller:
The biggest expense with MC are the uniforms. Web gear can be had for comprable if not same price as other colors/patterns. Hopefully Proper or someone else will come out with less expensive versions.




Yup. At quite a few place, the Multicam is the same price as every other color. The other place, it's usually only a couple dollars more. Finding a place that has MC stuff instock however....
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 8:16:17 PM EDT
With Multicam you have an effective camo pattern. With ACU you stick out like a sore thumb and you're a hi vis target.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 1:52:38 PM EDT
Yes, the Miraculous Multicam. The Eighth, Ninth, and perhaps Tenth Wonder of the World.

They would post more pics but its so hard to see its not worth the effort.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:26:43 PM EDT
You know, I see alot of people saying "there's no grey or green in the desert, so ACU/UCP/whatever doesn't work!"
Then somebody posts a picture of an animal or landscape or something that is grey or green or black, and go "there, it proves ACU/UCP/whateveritscalled works just fine!"

To date, in all the news photo's I have seen, every soldier wearing it is plainly visible. Tan walls, sandy landscapes, light tan rubble, whatever. They obviously stick out. OBVIOUSLY. Yeah I'm not in Iraq right now to see how effective it is, but I see it everyday in pictures and video in the media. And the soldiers stick out to an insane degree.

Seeing is believing, and i really think ACU ONLY fills the void for the "uniform that works for any environment... barely." If the 81st airborne or whoever needs to get somewhere in X number of hours, then yeah, pack their bags with ACU waiting at the airfield. Then, ASA-F-P, get them region-specific uniforms.

But I am not in charge of these things
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:43:11 PM EDT
After much thought and deliberation I decided to go the ACU route, I fully agree that multicam is probably the most versatile camo pattern on the market. It blends with many different types of enviroments well, it's a very well thought out pattern. That being said for my needs I don't feel that it would be the best choice, I'm mainly interested in camo at this point for an emergency type situation (i.e. some type of attack/natural disaster) where I might need to get out of the metro area in which I'm stuck for the time being. What better way than to blend in with the troops that are already here if some type of "martial law" for lack of a better word situation arises. I'm sure not all will agree with my line of thought on this, but it's something that I've given alot of thought to. My other problem with the multicam is the ever present complaint, PRICE! It's excellent well made gear but damn $90/100 for just a pair of pants or a jacket come on, I know you get what you pay for but are they that much better than regular military BDU's?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 9:05:03 PM EDT
Regarding the greener issue-

I don't know if it is so much that its a different color, or has more green in it. Seeing as how that the Army has already started to issue the ACU to troops, to change the color now wouldn't very smart. (Then having to re-issue to troops with the "old" color)

I would think they look as different as they do simply because one photo is taken outside in Natural light and the other is taken indoors under artifical light.
Since I do most of the product imaging for OPS, I have seen first hand that the same thing can look totally different indoors with artifical light vs. outdoors with natural light, and even then direct sunlight and shaded light are different as well.
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