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Posted: 1/28/2006 2:51:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 2:53:28 PM EDT by scottryan]
I am looking to get a vest that can hold plates. I don't know which one to get. Eagle CIRAS, HSGI, Callahan, etc. I am confused. Some hole soft armour as well. Some of my requirements are:

1. I must be able to move and run.
2. I can't be hot.
3. It must fit over clothing in the cold winter, but must not be too big in the hot summer.
4. I'm 6' and weight 210 lbs
5. No Blackhawk made in Vietnam crap.
6. Something for the collapse of society, SHTF, extened usage
7. I need to look like an operator and be tactical.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:11:09 PM EDT
I recently bought a Weesatch for myslef and a Tactical Tailor plate carrier for the wife. I too wanted a SHTF way to carry mags, gear, etc. I bought from www.optactical.com. There is a threadhere on the Wasatch/Weesatch and the pic threadis very cool for ideas. Some have said SKD tactical is good, but they have suspended ops for awhile.

I like both of these items and did a lot of research. Regardless, it is better than 782 gear from my USMC days.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:20:29 PM EDT
You can't go wrong with HSGI gear.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:39:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 6:41:07 PM EDT by Freakzilla]
I have had the wasatch, good if you want to save money on pouches

look at the TAG carrier, very comfortable, tons of pals space!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:02:55 PM EDT
Could you guys give me links to this stuff. I'm not really familiar with all the names and abbreviations.


thanks

Scott
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:14:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 10:17:11 PM EDT by exocet]
I like the eagle with cummerbund
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:17:55 PM EDT
I've got a Woosatch. Completely customizeable for your load. I've got mine setup with SDS M4 pouches and a Tactical tailor double .308 pouch for when I need my M1A.

Now I just need to scrape up some cash for a plate for the rear. (It requires two plates, other wise it tends to pull down the front/lift up the back)
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:54:03 AM EDT
I don't use plates in mine. I just use my Woosatch as a load bearing system and I find that my hydration system helps balance the load front to back. When I get out of water I'm sure that will change until the refill! Though I'm sure I could bare it!

I replaced all of my load bearing equipment with the Woosatch and I won't look back.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:51:29 AM EDT
Another route you may consider is the ESSTAC BOAR/ Bush BOAR series. ESSTAC Has put togther a unique system that allows you to have the chest rig, a NEW X-Type Padded harness and the Plate Carrier attaches to the system or can be worn by itself. The plate carrier and X-harness are set to go into full production very soon. Stuart has stepped up his processes and we will soon be seeing full production models available from Gwentac (brassburn) and SKD.
Ill have pics up very soon.
chuck
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:08:14 AM EDT
www.skd.com

They have both Eagle and HGSI carriers.

www.eagleindustries.com
www.tacticaltailor.com

You said you wanted something that wasn't hot.... in a plate carrier you're SOL unless you wear a cooling vest underneath :)

Seriously read the Weesatch/Wasatch thread. You'll learn alot about one of the best carriers out there.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with, especially for the wife. Very curious to get a womans take on how some of this gear fits and works for them.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:24:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:24:26 AM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By DenverShooter:
www.skd.com

They have both Eagle and HGSI carriers.

www.eagleindustries.com
www.tacticaltailor.com

You said you wanted something that wasn't hot.... in a plate carrier you're SOL unless you wear a cooling vest underneath :)

Seriously read the Weesatch/Wasatch thread. You'll learn alot about one of the best carriers out there.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with, especially for the wife. Very curious to get a womans take on how some of this gear fits and works for them.



I read the Weesatch/Wasatch thread. I can't figure out what was going on. Could someone give a breif explination of the differences between the Weesatch/Wasatch/Woosatch?

Scott
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 10:25:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
I read the Weesatch/Wasatch thread. I can't figure out what was going on. Could someone give a breif explination of the differences between the Weesatch/Wasatch/Woosatch?

Scott



Wasatch has more mag pouches built in, Weesatch has less mag pouches than the Wa so it fits better on smaller people or those not wearing soft ammor under it, Woosatch is the same without the built in pouches for those who want to add their own instead of using the built in ones.

I bought a Wasatch so I could carry 1 M14 mag per pouch or 2 AR mags per pouch and not have to change carriers or the pouches on my carrier.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 12:18:17 PM EDT
So it sounds like the Wasatch is better for normal sized people and would be better to wear with heavy winter clothing.

Can the Wasatch use soft armour inside of it like the Eagle CIRAS?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 12:34:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
So it sounds like the Wasatch is better for normal sized people and would be better to wear with heavy winter clothing.

Can the Wasatch use soft armour inside of it like the Eagle CIRAS?



The "satch seires carries your "plates" and you wear your soft ammor in a seperate carrier, either something like the new military ones or the "undercover" LEO style.

The Wasatch is a large plate carrier, I'm 6'3" 240 and with just a Tshirt its a little big on me. But with a vest under it or a winter coat it would be fine. Be sure and get the extra sholder strap pads if you buy one.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:19:09 PM EDT
So the Eagle CIRAS is the only one that can also hole soft armour?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:32:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
So the Eagle CIRAS is the only one that can also hole soft armour?



TAG Spartan carries the interceptor soft armor inserts, as does the "BCS I" carrier from
beezcombatsystems.com
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:35:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
So the Eagle CIRAS is the only one that can also hole soft armour?



No,I'm using Diamond back Tactical level IIIa soft armor inserts behind Ceradyne level III++ multi-hit plates in my Wa. It works great.

Good luck with #2 not getting hot.... With any plate carrier loaded with plates if your running and moving your going to heat up.

BTW Another +1 for SKD.

Hope that helps,
JWL
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:39:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fongman:

Originally Posted By scottryan:
So the Eagle CIRAS is the only one that can also hole soft armour?



No,I'm using Diamond back Tactical level IIIa soft armor inserts behind Ceradyne level III++ multi-hit plates in my Wa. It works great.

Good luck with #2 not getting hot.... With any plate carrier loaded with plates if your running and moving your going to heat up.

BTW Another +1 for SKD.

Hope that helps,
JWL



So is the soft armor seperate from the Wasatch then?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:42:41 PM EDT
What is this setup these guys are using?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=266060&page=4
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:52:02 PM EDT
HSG has a new unit coming out soon that will carry the USGI soft ammor I forgot about reading that on their forum.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:09:23 PM EDT
Buy them all and sell off the ones thats dont do it for you

EGG
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:23:48 AM EDT
so guys let me get this straight....with the weesatch can you load soft armor and your plates with this carrier? or is it plates only with a seperate soft armor vest under it?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:15:35 AM EDT
Just to clarify ( I think)- Fongman is talking about fitting ~10"x12" pads of soft armor directly behind his plates _inside_ the Wasatch. This is done for plates that need soft armor behind them to work properly. When you think about "normal" body armor, you're thinking about soft armor that covers you from the clavicle to the belly button and covers your sides as well... much larger than a 10"x12" area. This normal body armor will _not_ fit inside a wasatch. You wear the Wasatch (or whatever plate carrier) over the armor. The picture linked in the "what are these guys wearing" post above is a good visual of what we're talking about. Those guys are wearing a brown-ish Eagle industries plate carrier over the lighter tan soft body armor underneath (which you can also see because they're wearing that over their clothing).

The setup described by Fongman lets you use hard armor plates that require soft armor behind them without having to suit up in a whole vest underneath your Wasatch.. Everything is contained in the Wasatch- hard plate and soft armor together..the downside is that you don't have any protection on your sides etc.

Is that helpful or did I just confuse everything?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:27:55 AM EDT
lemme also throw in 2cents on choice- don't bother with the eagle CIRAS or the TAG spartan or the HSGI interceptor carrier unless you already have the armor in hand. Getting ahold of the proper sized soft armor insert will be a real pain in the ass. You could buy the paraclete RAV w/ soft armor insert from paraclete but you would have to be $rich$ to do this (plus the plate pocket isn't very tolerant of various plate shapes and thicknesses). My humble suggestion would be to just buy whatever concealable level IIIa vest works for you and is comfortable enough that you don't mind wearing it. If you anticipate needing 12+ magazines on your chest, just get the wasatch. Fewer magazines than that? then buy the Eagle Industries plate carrier or plate carrier with cummerbund to hold your plate over that. Add pouches as desired. YMMV
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:49:59 AM EDT
I'm in a similar position to scottyran so this is a helpful thread. This is the also second thread I've seen lately that recommends the TAG Spartan---anyone know where to get more info on these, and who stocks them? A Google search turned up nothing--I can't even find a TAG website...

Thanks.

Will
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:44:58 AM EDT
I really like the Wasatch. And if you’re not too skinny, you can still get it to fit without armor. It is a nice design.

Personally, I don’t have plates right now and want something simpler. If you decide to go the Wasatch route, I’ve got one for sale in the EE.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:47:17 PM EDT
The eagle plate carrier w/ cb willalso take soft armor inserts behind the plates.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:20:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ahab:
Just to clarify ( I think)- Fongman is talking about fitting ~10"x12" pads of soft armor directly behind his plates _inside_ the Wasatch. This is done for plates that need soft armor behind them to work properly. When you think about "normal" body armor, you're thinking about soft armor that covers you from the clavicle to the belly button and covers your sides as well... much larger than a 10"x12" area. This normal body armor will _not_ fit inside a wasatch. You wear the Wasatch (or whatever plate carrier) over the armor. The picture linked in the "what are these guys wearing" post above is a good visual of what we're talking about. Those guys are wearing a brown-ish Eagle industries plate carrier over the lighter tan soft body armor underneath (which you can also see because they're wearing that over their clothing).

The setup described by Fongman lets you use hard armor plates that require soft armor behind them without having to suit up in a whole vest underneath your Wasatch.. Everything is contained in the Wasatch- hard plate and soft armor together..the downside is that you don't have any protection on your sides etc.

Is that helpful or did I just confuse everything?



Sorry for the slow response. I was at a training class all weekend. Ahab described the setup perfectly. There is no soft armor on the sides. It's still a sweet setup without it becoming so heavy that the lack of mobility and speed become a liability. If your looking for a static rig or SHTF setup I think this type of armor works fine. If your doing DA (Direct Action) work then something like the CIRAS should be considered. IMHO.
JWL
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:43:16 AM EDT
.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:48:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WillMunny:
I'm in a similar position to scottyran so this is a helpful thread. This is the also second thread I've seen lately that recommends the TAG Spartan---anyone know where to get more info on these, and who stocks them? A Google search turned up nothing--I can't even find a TAG website...




Google "Tactical Applications Group" and email them. I don't think they have it on their website.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:44:40 PM EDT
I've noticed a trend in guys getting Armor. Everyone wants to get a Plate carrier, then it turns into a plate carrier with hard plates and then soft plates. The whole point of the plate carrier is to give you a platform to mount pouches and to hold hard rifle plates. Adding soft armor really cuts into mobility/agility and cranks up the heat ratio as well. And if you don't train in it, when you do wear a rig like that for extended periods of time in warm weather....well...it's gonna be an eye opener.

The Wee/Waa/Woosatch was designed around the issue interceptor vest so you had a out side shell to hold plates and pouches and give you a little bgetter mobility as you seperated the plates for the soft armor of the vest. wearing the rig with out the Interceptor...the wearer is usally swimming in the vest.

Now for the LEO types who wear level 2A/3A soft armor, the plate carrier concept works well. They already wear Pistol ammo rated protection on the job, and popping the trunk and donning the PC gets them rated to level lV rifle ICW (In conjuction With) along with ammo for their patrol carbine.

My view (for what it's worth) is a PC with plates only is a Risk vs reward thing. I like the mobility of my Callahan with just plates.Sure the added pistol protection may be nice, but getting hit with a rifle cartridge negates and soft armor protection. And having the soft armor decreases my agility/mobility, adds weight and helps to increase the heat index when it's hot out.

just something to think about when getting a PC with the intent of putting both soft and hard armor. And only a few PC's are designed with the ability to add soft armor to the interior . I see a trend to bulletproof everyone in the Military from head to toe and the civilian sector is following suit. Were getting away with it in Iraq because the loads are light as convoy and Humvees carry the load. if the next conflict is back in a mountainous country with a hot climate where you carry 80lb+ combat loads... well, can you say turtle on your back.

For me the Risk of running just plates is less and the reward of better mobility and weight along with better heat index qualities is worht it...YMMV
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:51:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 2:53:28 PM EDT by Freakzilla]

Originally Posted By DamonL:

Originally Posted By WillMunny:
I'm in a similar position to scottyran so this is a helpful thread. This is the also second thread I've seen lately that recommends the TAG Spartan---anyone know where to get more info on these, and who stocks them? A Google search turned up nothing--I can't even find a TAG website...




Google "Tactical Applications Group" and email them. I don't think they have it on their website.



There are a couple different "TAG"s, the one that makes the modular plate carrier is Tactical Assault Gear

www.store.tacticalassaultgear.com/moplca.html
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 11:45:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 11:45:58 AM EDT by DamonL]
The TAG Spartan is made by the Tactical Applications Group. Its different than the Tactical Assault Gear plate carrier.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:49:28 PM EDT
Tactical Applications Gear - This TAG produces the Spartan.

I would not consider it in the same category as a plate carrier however. It is a replacement for the Interceptor OTV, and uses the Interceptor soft armor and SAPIs.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:03:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 9:08:52 AM EDT by James4]
Hi,

Wasatch = X-Large Plate Carrier with Cummerbund + pouches in the fold between carrier and cummerbund
Weesatch = Large Plate Carrier with Cummerbund + pouches in the fold between carrier and cummerbund
Woosatch-A = X-Large Plate Carrier with Cummerbund + no pouches between carrier and cummerbund
Woosatch-E = Large Plate Carrier with Cummerbund + no pouches between carrier and cummerbund

If going HSGI (a good choice), I would buy the Woosatch-E (weesatch-sized without pouches) because this carrier is cut very large. The bottom of the carrier should be above your navel so you can bend at the waist to kneel, sit in a car, or the like. Too long in the front and you may chip your tooth on the top of the plate (seriously!). If you need the sag-inducing pouches between the carrier and cummerbund then you are carrying too much stuff.

Both the Eagle Plate Carrier and the Wa/Wee/Woosatch have rather large gaps around the armpit that cannot be filled with soft armor like the CIRAS could fill. The CIRAS is $350 more than the EAG PC-W/C and Wa/We/Woo. And that is before buying armor and plate inserts!

I have a question for you. Do you want to wear your mag pouches to the john? To lunch during an all-day training session? If not, please consider keeping your soft/hard armor and your load bearing equipment separate.

Concealed soft armor (the vest converts)
Semi-concealed hard armor
LBE with no armor
LBE with soft armor
LBE with hard armor

...all with a quick snap/zip/unsnap/unzip.

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