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Posted: 6/13/2017 10:12:04 AM EDT
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I picked up a 1921 mfg Remington model 11. Well used (as expected for these old workhorses) but the stocks were solid and the gun has a very tight feel to it. No signs of abuse.
However, while the gun will cycle correctly AFTER the trigger is pulled, I cannot cycle shells through the action by hand and the bolt will not lock back on empty UNLESS the trigger is pulled first. The shell carrier operates correctly AFTER the trigger is pulled but does not move when the bolt is cycled after the trigger resets. My first thought would be the Carrier Spring, Carrier Dog or Dog Spring but the Carrier operates very strongly each time (one time) after the trigger is pulled. I haven't torn the action completely apart yet but I was hoping this problem might sound familiar to someone before I started. I discovered the problem before I bought the gun, which is why I got it for $190 so I have some financial room for replacement parts. Worst case scenario is I can sell the unmolested barrel and sound wood (no cracks) for more than I have into the purchase. Any input or predictions before I get started? Thanks all 
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I got an old one out recently. The lube had all dried up and it wouldn't function. Maybe a real good cleaning? 
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I was hoping you would show up  Now the video.  ANIMATION = Light Twelve Auto 5 Firing Cycle Animation another  ANIMATION Browning AUTO 5 "action of the bolt on the firing pin" and one more  Browning A5 (full disassembly and operation) One more for the road  Browning A5 Maintenance Series: Disassembly |
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Glad to help. Here's a good video showing how that action works. I would thoroughly clean your gun first. Look for debris and or broken stock pieces to see if anything is locking up the action when the hammer is cocked. Your best bet is going to be to remove the stock, trigger assembly and bolt/carrier assembly. blow everything out with Non-Clorinated brake parts cleaner, scrub with a toothbrush. Then lube with Remoil and reassemble. See if that cures it. If so it was just sludged up like an old engine with Quaker State oil. If not, look at the carrier spring, carrier dog and carrier dog spring. Also check trigger assembly function. Now the video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-ggIXWLvuw
another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-vkzAPIQwA
and one more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5hPYzEj5Mg
One more for the road https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nECbrcCxp2k |
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Oh yeah, that's the good stuff. Thanks! Quoted:
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Glad to help. Here's a good video showing how that action works. I would thoroughly clean your gun first. Look for debris and or broken stock pieces to see if anything is locking up the action when the hammer is cocked. Your best bet is going to be to remove the stock, trigger assembly and bolt/carrier assembly. blow everything out with Non-Clorinated brake parts cleaner, scrub with a toothbrush. Then lube with Remoil and reassemble. See if that cures it. If so it was just sludged up like an old engine with Quaker State oil. If not, look at the carrier spring, carrier dog and carrier dog spring. Also check trigger assembly function. Now the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-ggIXWLvuw
another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-vkzAPIQwA
and one more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5hPYzEj5Mg
One more for the road https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nECbrcCxp2k |
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Does anyone know if the Browning A5 action spring PLUG is a drop in replacement for the original wooden Remington model 11 PLUG? I have the whole gun in pieces and while there doesn't seem to be a problem with the original action spring and wooden plug, this would be a good time to replace both these almost 100 year old parts.
BTW- As soon as I got into the action I think I found the problem described in my original post. The carrier spring had one leg UNDER the carrier instead of resting on top (as looking into the upside-down receiver). This orientation is wrong and was forcing the front of carrier into the "up" position. However, I can't figure out how the carrier worked at all when the hammer was down  (which it did). I inspected all the parts as I cleaned them and compared them with illustrations in my parts diagram. Nothing looks broken or missing. The action itself was caked in dried oil. It wasn't gummy, it was rock solid. It took a few days soak in kerosene, scrubbing and then hosing it down with carburettor cleaner to get that stuff off. What it revealed were internal parts that looked brand new with very few wear spots or rounded edges. The bolt face and firing pin hole and extractor hook look perfect. Like a lot of working man's guns, this model 11 was likely carried a lot lot but shot very little. Nobody during the Depression or the homefront of WWII had time or money to waste shooting things that you couldn't eat or weren't trying to eat you!
Anyway, for shooting purposes, I am replacing the action spring (and action spring plug) recoil spring and magazine spring just as a preventive measure. Thanks for any and all input
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Yes it will. Quoted:
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I think that plug will drop right in.... |
Well, got it back together but I am still having the same problem. The shell Carrier remains in the "up" position. I removed the trigger group and discovered the same condition as before. The Carrier Spring was compressed so far back the the leg no longer sits properly on the Carrier and now applies spring pressure in the wrong direction.
ETA- As I play with it, it seems like Carrier is being allowed to move too far "up" and the Carrier Spring leg is then moving off where it is supposed to be. |
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I sorted it out!
It seems the leg of the Carrier Spring that rides on the Carrier itself was a little too short. So much so that when the front of the Carrier was lifted into the extreme "up" position, the spring leg slid off the back and got under it enough to apply force in the opposite direction. I compared the spring to another original Rem.11 and a Browning replacement and the spring leg was about 1/32" too short. Not enough to really notice unless it was causing a problem. The spring did not look broken but that leg may have worn down sliding against the Carrier over time. It may have been an out of spec spring to begin with. The gun is old but the spring looked much newer. It did not have the same patina as the rest of the internal parts and it did not match the finish of the Carrier Spring in the other model 11 I examined. It had what seemed like a semi-gloss painted finish. It may have been a sub-standard replacement spring from years ago that either wasn't dimensioned correctly or wore down from bad heat treatment. I used a Wolff manufactured Browning Auto5 replacement spring I had in my spare parts box. I had to cut out the notch for the receiver stud. A Dremel with a shaping stone worked nicely but that spring steel took a bit of patience to grind to shape. That was good though because it allowed me to get an exact fit without removing material too fast and risking ruining the part. I periodically dunked it water to keep it from getting too hot. It was never more than warm to the touch while working it but I didn't want to take any chances. I buffed the cut edge with a rubber wheel to polish it and remove any burs. I touched it up with some cold blue just because I am OCD that way. Nobody will ever see it but now it looks like a factory part. So, with the action working as it should, I reinstalled the buttstock. I applied a thin layer of Acra-Glass where the receiver and tangs meet the wood. There was a slight shrinkage gap about the thickness of two pieces of copy paper. The Acra-Glass filled that in nicely. It looks good and will help prevent future cracks from developing. I only need to reinstall the front end. I have a replacement mag tube spring, recoil spring and friction piece spring to finish the refresh of this classic gun. |
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Yes it will. Quoted:
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I think that plug will drop right in.... |
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