Armory Sponsor
Posted: 2/10/2011 10:55:02 PM EDT
|
So got out to the range today for a few minutes with a couple shotguns to see what their patterns look like. Did not turn out as I thought it would have.
Load: Federal reduced recoil Law Enforcement 00-Buck with Flight Control Wad Distance: measured 75-feet (25-yards) 
Shotgun No. 1: Remington 870 Super Mag 23-inch barrel MOD Rem Choke factory rifle sights, but only has the front blade in, no rear notch. POA was different with each shot, but the pattern size is there. 
Shotgun No. 2: Remington 870 Police with a 18.5-inch CYL bore barrel and bead sight 
Now, why is it that the CYL bore gun is shooting a much tighter group than the MOD choked gun? |
|
Without being able to examine the two barrels, I would be inclined to guess there maybe be some minor defects in the 23" barrel. Is it any older/been shot more? I'm not too familiar with the particular load you were using, which in itself could be affecting the patterns. The 18.5" barrel could also be overbored, thus possibly producing more choke than the other.
On a related note, I have an old Mossberg 500 that had a fixed full choke in it. I patterned it, reamed it open to an IM and honed the bore. This then produced a tighter, more consistent pattern, both with 1oz (IIRC) #8 at 40 yards. |
|
Quoted:
Without being able to examine the two barrels, I would be inclined to guess there maybe be some minor defects in the 23" barrel. Is it any older/been shot more? I'm not too familiar with the particular load you were using, which in itself could be affecting the patterns. The 18.5" barrel could also be overbored, thus possibly producing more choke than the other. On a related note, I have an old Mossberg 500 that had a fixed full choke in it. I patterned it, reamed it open to an IM and honed the bore. This then produced a tighter, more consistent pattern, both with 1oz (IIRC) #8 at 40 yards. Federal LE buckshot has the Flight Control wad. Squeezing it through a choke moves the shot around causing instability while the wad flies down range with the shot in it. |
|
Quoted:
Without being able to examine the two barrels, I would be inclined to guess there maybe be some minor defects in the 23" barrel. Is it any older/been shot more? I'm not too familiar with the particular load you were using, which in itself could be affecting the patterns. The 18.5" barrel could also be overbored, thus possibly producing more choke than the other. On a related note, I have an old Mossberg 500 that had a fixed full choke in it. I patterned it, reamed it open to an IM and honed the bore. This then produced a tighter, more consistent pattern, both with 1oz (IIRC) #8 at 40 yards. I cannot prove this except with my own experience, polishing the bore will tighten up your groups. I use a brass brush wrapped in 0000 (four aught) steel wool. I then soak this with MAAS polish, (like Flitz polish) and use a battery drill to polish the entire bore and chamber. I keep the "polish head" moving back and forth and change the direction a couple of times. When I get done, it looks like chrome. Clean and lube to get the polish out and try it. For me the results are tighter, more uniform groups. This is a near free, little time, no real change fix. I have done this on two barrels, one a Police magnum (Police turn in) IMP CYL barrel and the other is a Express Magnum VR cut down and threaded for Rem Choke barrel with a MOD tube in. (Guncat did the work). Loads are Remington Value Pack 00 Buck and Federal LE 00 Flight Control Wonder round.... I cannot really see a difference in the two loads after the polish. My five shoot groups all stay in the silhouette out to 25 yards. Rem Value pack slugs and Fed LE Wonder Slugs are both POI out to 25 yards (have not shot further yet.) I personally think the polishing removes rough spots and build up that disturb or grab the shot column in flight. If there are imperfections, then honing and polishing may be in order... I also polish the mag and extension tubes, especially after I drilled the dimples on my Express Magnum. I got the idea from JD McGuire at AI&P Tactical who is a Remington Armorer and has tremendous experience building fighting scatterguns. Enjoy and please post the results. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Without being able to examine the two barrels, I would be inclined to guess there maybe be some minor defects in the 23" barrel. Is it any older/been shot more? I'm not too familiar with the particular load you were using, which in itself could be affecting the patterns. The 18.5" barrel could also be overbored, thus possibly producing more choke than the other. On a related note, I have an old Mossberg 500 that had a fixed full choke in it. I patterned it, reamed it open to an IM and honed the bore. This then produced a tighter, more consistent pattern, both with 1oz (IIRC) #8 at 40 yards. Federal LE buckshot has the Flight Control wad. Squeezing it through a choke moves the shot around causing instability while the wad flies down range with the shot in it. This makes the most sense. Take the choke out of the 23" and try it again. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Without being able to examine the two barrels, I would be inclined to guess there maybe be some minor defects in the 23" barrel. Is it any older/been shot more? I'm not too familiar with the particular load you were using, which in itself could be affecting the patterns. The 18.5" barrel could also be overbored, thus possibly producing more choke than the other. On a related note, I have an old Mossberg 500 that had a fixed full choke in it. I patterned it, reamed it open to an IM and honed the bore. This then produced a tighter, more consistent pattern, both with 1oz (IIRC) #8 at 40 yards. Federal LE buckshot has the Flight Control wad. Squeezing it through a choke moves the shot around causing instability while the wad flies down range with the shot in it. Does all the Federal LE ammo have the flitecontrol wad? |
|
From the Defensive Shotgun Ammo sticky note right above your post:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=275185 "Federal Flite Control 00 Buck: Federal Premium Shot shell ammo w/ Flite Control wad makes the best patterns when shot out of cylinder bore barrel. The proprietary Flite Control Wad is really unlike anything else. People report ca 10" patterns @ 30 yards w/ 18" Cylinder bore barrels. This is a great alternative to an expensive up front investment in an expensive tactical choked barrel. They make Low & regular recoil loads in LE packaged ammo & regular loads in commercial ammo. Commercial ammo w/ the "PFC" prefix on the part number is Premium Flite Control ammo. The "Precision Buckshot" features unique wad that actually retains the shot the entire time in flight until it hits something. That one seems less safe in terms of barrier penetration but would be the ultimate in a tight pattern! Federal's "partner company" Speer also has a Lawman offereing w/ the Flite Control Wad." Out of my 11-87 Police I get 6" groups at 25 yards with this load. After 5 rounds it looks like a 6" fist punched through the center of the target. The most amazing buckshot I have ever seen! |
|
Will this load over-penetrate and go through my apartment wall into my neighbor's residence? Or will I be better off using bird shot? 
The flight control wads in the choke are more than likely affecting your patterning. These new wads are nice in keeping with a tighter pattern for more sistance, but fowl hunters have quickly learned that you need specific chokes that don't interfere with wads. As someone else said, pull the choke and see what kind of results you get. Or look into some "hunting" chokes for the gun. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Without being able to examine the two barrels, I would be inclined to guess there maybe be some minor defects in the 23" barrel. Is it any older/been shot more? I'm not too familiar with the particular load you were using, which in itself could be affecting the patterns. The 18.5" barrel could also be overbored, thus possibly producing more choke than the other. On a related note, I have an old Mossberg 500 that had a fixed full choke in it. I patterned it, reamed it open to an IM and honed the bore. This then produced a tighter, more consistent pattern, both with 1oz (IIRC) #8 at 40 yards. Federal LE buckshot has the Flight Control wad. Squeezing it through a choke moves the shot around causing instability while the wad flies down range with the shot in it. Interesting, like I said I'm not too familiar with the LE buckshot or any specialty loads for the most part. Thanks |
|
Quoted:
Now, why is it that the CYL bore gun is shooting a much tighter group than the MOD choked gun? Because FC ammo was intended to be fired in police shotguns which are typically CYL bore. Its well known that MOD chokes or tighter degrade the performance of the FC wad. |
Armory Sponsor