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Posted: 7/29/2003 7:07:29 AM EDT
I bought some Winchester 100 round boxes at Walmart in 20 and 12 gauge. Neither one will work in my Remington 1100's. Not enough power to cycle the action, and they seem really light.
Anyone else have this happen to them?
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 7:59:17 AM EDT
My 1100 will cycle anything that is put into the shotgun, including 7/8 loads.

How old is your shotgun? If it's new, it may need to be worked over to clean up some of the burs. If it’s old, them you may just need to pull the shotgun down and clean the fouling out of it.

The first step is to check the barrel hood and bolt latch to make sure that there is no burs that may be binding the bolt up on unlock. Use a stone and clean the hood’s locking edge for the bolt (on the barrel) and the bolt locking edge to allow the bolt to cleanly unlock without binding.

The second thing is lightly lube the carrier guide ring and outer mag tube to allow the carrier ring to slide down the mag tube without binding.
Check the O ring at the gas piston. If it's old, replace it.
Also, when you have the carrier out of the rifle, check the receiver slots to make sure that there lubed, and do not have a bur that is binding the rails/rods as they slide in the receiver.

To pull the bolt carrier, first pull the trigger assembly out of the rifle by pressing out the two pins, the assembly will drop out. Pull the barrel off, then the O-ring and piston/seal. Then pull the bolt handle straight out, and reach inside the receiver and press in on the shell catch and the bolt and carrier will pull straight forward out to the receiver. Check/clean the parts, give them a light lube with oil of choice, and put the shotgun back together.

Note: The 1100 have two types of gas pistons. The original was a two-piece design that had the expanding seal that slide down the mag tube over the piston and forced the piston back. The latter type is the 1187 type that has the expanding seal clipped around the piston. The 1187 piston works well with the chrome lined mag tube, but leaves a little lacking on the non-chromed 1100 tube. If you have an 1187 piston, check around and find the old style 1100 piston and seal.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 8:43:41 AM EDT
Do what Dano said and your problems should be solved. More than likely it is dirty.

About the loads you bought, they are often called promotional loads. Dove season is coming, and the national average is 7 shots for each kill. A limit of 15 birds in a day can easily mean 100 shots in a single day. This is when the ammo producers make a large percentage of their annual sales.

So they put out a lot of the 100 round general purpose loads knowing they will be used on the Dove field and on clays to warm up before season opener. These loads are light and cheaper than most, but there is nothing wrong with using them. I keep a couple extra bricks around year round.

Some guns might have problems with them, but an 1100 should not. Mine never does, but one of my Berettas had issues with them when it was new. I took it apart and cleaned it and worked over all the parts too.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 9:31:46 AM EDT
The 12g. has about 1500 rounds through it, and had just been fully cleaned and FP-10 oiled. It will shoot the Fiocchi 7/8 loads, but not the Win."Superspeed" loads, or the 100 round promo boxes.
The 20g. is fairly new, with only 300 rounds through it. It also had been cleaned, FP-10 oiled, and still wouldn't cycle the promo loads.
I'll check on the burrs tonight.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 10:47:01 AM EDT
Guys it is not the gun, TV is right, it's the ammo. Of the three brands of cheap ammo that Wal-Mart sells the Federal is the best followed by the Remington Hi-Vel and the Winchester is only for pump guns. It fails to feed in both my 12 and 20 1100's. Doing what Dano523 said is a good idea anyway but the ammo sucks. It is a shame because I patterned some #8's and it has full rich patterns. The Remington is a reduced 7/8 load, shoots well but the patterns had holes in them. The best compromise is the Federal, same velocity as Winchester AA's that I shoot in competition and the patterns were even and full. I shoot every week, once or twice a week and the stuff works well. The Federal is the most expensive at $14.88 of a sleeve of four boxes. The 12 gauge comes in 8's and 7 1/2's but the 20 comes in only 7 1/2's. MIKE.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 2:47:35 PM EDT
At wallmart your hand must have gotten confused and grabbed the wrong ammo box...

You see, yesterday (and likely still today) they had both Winchester & Federal 100rd multi-purpose shells on sale for the same price of $14.88?!

My thinking is why buy inferior shells (winchester) when for the same price you can get better ammo (Federal)? Perhaps I'm biased by my liking of Federal Ammunition, but to each their own. In every gun I've ever had, Winchester ammo has jammed at least once. It's so crappy I'd rather shoot PMC over WINCHESTER. At least PMC hasn't jammed in any of my guns. Federal is a fantastic cartridge for the $. YMMV.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 8:21:50 PM EDT
Mike's right, it's the ammo. 90% of the problems my customers have with their 1100s is cheap Wal-Mart ammo. I always ask when they bring their gun in for repairs, where did you buy the ammo? When they say Wal-Mart, I pick up some 3 1/4 x 1 1/4 loads and let them test it themselves. They never believe me till I show them.

Remington says that to cycle their 1100s or 1187s, you need a minimum of 3 1/4 x 1 1/8. Most of the stuff Wal-Mart sells is 3 or 3 1/8 Drams by 1 oz of shot.

These loads will give you fits with a A-5 too.

Thanks,
Lee
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 8:46:01 PM EDT
They all work fine in my Winchester Defender.

Yes, sometimes even I can be a smart a$$!

Vulcan94
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 9:30:11 PM EDT
Yeah it is the ammo. It is getting cheaper every year. Does the stuff this year even have brass bases or is it that cheap aluminum now? Best to use in a pump or break action only.

I have only bought the Federal from Walmart, never the Winchester. Most of the 12 gauge is used for blasting practice in an 870 or fun targets in an O/U. I don't trust the 20 gauge stuff in my Beretta so I reserve it for a double barrel. Last year I was forced to use the stuff (Federal) on a last minute Dove hunt. Where else but Walmart can you buy ammo at 1am on the road?! I thought the velocity was a little off for Doves. Hit ratio was worse.

I rarely buy Winchester shotgun ammo for field use, but their premium stuff in the black box for sporting clays is top notch. I think winchester puts a lot more effort into their target ammo then their field ammo. It is the reverse for Remington.

Last year on the opener for dove season, 2 of the guys had low brass bases seperating on winchester 20 gauge ammo, and it was not the cheap stuff. They were pissed.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 4:02:13 PM EDT
One of my 100rd. cases had aluminum bases.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 7:42:17 PM EDT
Regarding Wally world ammo.

Are they low brass? Yup

Are they produced to the same standard as all other ammo?

Sorta.....

Promo has the same basic quality standards that all Federal ammo has.

Do we take more care with our "Premium" line?

You betcha... that's why it's premium.

Federal's quality standards beat SAAMI all hollow. EVEN the promo loads!

Just an aside to the dove hunting. I did an interview with a guy that hunts doves with a .410. Anything but a head shot is considered declasse`. He hand loads, but wanted us to P&V his loads.

All that said... You want a uber load for game?

Premium turkey is the ticket.

I'll shut up now.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 9:10:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedGunner:
Regarding Wally world ammo.

Are they low brass? Yup



Fedgunner, just to clarify, I was asking about the Winchester ammo. It sounds like you are talking about Federal. Last year one of the guys had some Winchester ammo that looked like it had aluminum low bases and it just did not perfom well for him.

After Dove season, I started using Federal Hi-Power 20 gauge loads with #6 shot in my 20 gauge Beretta for Rabbits and jump shooting ducks, and it was great. I have had troubble finding Federal Premium loads in 7.5 in my town. Know any good web sources for Federal ammo?
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 5:54:36 AM EDT
Zoub, I understand completely about problems with Winchester ammunition.

I have fired Winchester through all of my firearms, and for some reason Winchester ALWAYS manages to jam at least once per shooting session in my handgun, and my Ruger 10/22. Whenever I fire Federal ammunition through ANY of my guns I never have problems. I'm certain this is a result of better research, materials used, and manufacturing on Federal's part. Even with their low-end or "Promo" lines of ammunition.

Winchester always seems to be underpowered for Semi-Automatic guns in my experience. YMMV.

If I'm looking for a specific Federal Shotshell type, and I can't get it through "Other Connections" I'll search for it online. I have found that wholesalehunter.com has #7.5 in both 12 ga & 20 ga here:

www.wholesalehunter.com/product/federal/fedehome.htm

Check where it says: "Federal Ammunition - Shotshells" and you will find anything you want in the drop-down menu.

I've never ordered from them before, so I don't know about their service record, prices, or other things... You'd be going out on a limb buying online. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 7:55:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Vulcan94:
They all work fine in my Winchester Defender.


They work in my Mossberg 590 too! Hmmmm! makes you wonder about all this (Remington is the best) talk doesnt it?

Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:05:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZGunnut:
Originally Posted By Vulcan94:
They all work fine in my Winchester Defender.


They work in my Mossberg 590 too! Hmmmm! makes you wonder about all this (Remington is the best) talk doesnt it?




Apples to to oranges here. Defender and 590 are pumps. All that crap ammo goes through 870's just fine too. It is the semi-autos you have to watch. The lower cost Winchester bulk ammo at Walmart in the 100 round boxes does not cylce most semi's very well. Where as the similar Federal seems to do OK.

I have also experienced that some of the Winchester stuff seems to be more prone to swelling in changing humidity. In which case the potential exists to stick in any type of action.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 6:19:46 AM EDT
I bought a box of the cheap Federal 12ga. to try before I bought a case. You guys are right, the 1 oz. Federal 7-1/2 load works fine in the 1100. Academy Sports has them on sale for $2.49 a box. Last time I was there, they had cases of it stacked on the floor. I should have bought some 20ga. while I was at it to try, since it's the finicky of the two 1100's. Anyone have experience with the Federal 20ga. cheap shells?
Do you think the price of shells will go down again before Dove season, or should I stock up now?

Link Posted: 8/6/2003 12:21:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 12:25:22 PM EDT by Zoub]

Originally Posted By tvone:
Anyone have experience with the Federal 20ga. cheap shells? Do you think the price of shells will go down again before Dove season, or should I stock up now?



Buy now, your problem won't be price, it will be availability, IF you need them for Dove season. If not, they are usually at Walmart year round, or at least all fall and hunitng season? Why wait? Buy now.

Here is the Federal ammo I bought last year at Walmart, that I ended up liking in my Beretta 20 gauge. Multi-Purpose shell, 2 3/4", 7 1/2 shot size, 7/8 oz and 2 1/2 drams equivalent. Top velocity of 1200.

You know, this post has reminded me of two other issues I have had in the past 18 months with 12 gauge Winchester ammo. No way in hell will I ever own any of their .22lr ammo, but the shotgun stuff is dropping off too.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 2:48:50 PM EDT
TV, I buy the 20 gauge cheap Federal that Zoub is talking about for my sons all the time. It works fine in their 20 gauge 1100's. My youngest shoots skeet with me and that is his practice load. He uses AA's for competitions. MIKE.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 9:04:04 AM EDT
My experience...

Remington 1100, Federal, Winchester and Remington universal at Wal-mart, no problem.

Remington 1100 Magnum with steel shot barrel that has one medium sized gas port, shoots the remington sport load just okay (brass) but not the Fedchester with (aluminum). I think there's just not enough oomph for the one port, and the aluminum must expand tighter in the chamber to make extraction harder and I get slow cycling.

Will shoot the STS Remington even with 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 load just fine. Must like those hulls or powder or something.

M4-AK
YMMV (Your mileage may vary)
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 11:46:06 AM EDT
A little late but...

I bought a Winchester 100 round value pack--once. I noticed that a couple of the shells had the hull over the "brass" and a couple others had bad crimps and another looks like it was crushed during crimping. The first couple of rounds I noticed from failures to feed. All the others I found because I lost all trust in the Winchester ammo and had to visually inspect each shell.

Haven't had any problems with the Federal 100 round value packs though. Last weekend I went through 175 rounds through a old Remington Model 11 (A-5 clone for those wondering) without a single hitch.

This was all for 12 gauge stuff. One gentleman I spoke with stated that Winchester's shotgun loads QC has gone downhill lately. Their new AA loads are made of a two piece hull and he doesn't bother reloading them anymore.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 7:43:24 AM EDT
Last week my brother and I were shooting our new Benelli SBE's using the Wal-Mart Winchester stuff and we had several failures.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 10:15:50 AM EDT
Wally World Wnichester and Federal is all my 1100 gets fed. Never had any problems with either.

Link Posted: 9/10/2003 1:18:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-AK:
My experience...

Remington 1100, Federal, Winchester and Remington universal at Wal-mart, no problem.

Remington 1100 Magnum with steel shot barrel that has one medium sized gas port, shoots the remington sport load just okay (brass) but not the Fedchester with (aluminum). I think there's just not enough oomph for the one port, and the aluminum must expand tighter in the chamber to make extraction harder and I get slow cycling.

Will shoot the STS Remington even with 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 load just fine. Must like those hulls or powder or something.

M4-AK
YMMV (Your mileage may vary)



Just to clarify.

Federal doesn't use aluminum for the shotshell heads. If it is silver in color it is either zinc plated brass, or an alloy with steel in it. (hold a magnet to the cup)

I've never used the remington or winchester. (I'd probably be exiled to lower Slobovia if I did)
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 1:25:26 PM EDT
I never had any problem with the 3 dram Federals but they smell like crap if you ask me. Maybe its the paper basewad?
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 11:57:39 AM EDT
ECS, On this one I have to disagree, I think the Wal-Mart Federal all purpose shotshells smell delicious, especially in the morning. MIKE.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 10:25:23 AM EDT
I have a mossberg 500 and just got a box of that at wal-mart. And have had no problems at all firing anything. I would go with what someone else said and make sure every thing is cleaned well.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 3:54:01 PM EDT
Same deal here. Used the walmart Winchester loads and had failure to extract and jams galore. But the Federal stuff did just fine. For a while I was wondering about my 11-87 but I guess its just a bad lot. I have a feeling it was able to cycle Winchester loads a while back.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 8:59:37 AM EDT
I saw the same problem again with the Winchester promo loads this weekend with a M-1. Shells wouldn't eject, changed to my cheap Federals, and everything went fine.

How cheap can these shells be?
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