Posted: 2/14/2009 3:43:57 AM EDT
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I have a Ruger MK II target pistol that is great fun when it works. However for years now I have had a problem with it jamming. I have tried a variety of ammo and fixes, but nothing has done the trick. The problem is that often the gun will fail to extract a round, and the empty shell will stovepipe out of the chamber. At first I thought this was due to a worn out extractor claw, so I replaced that with a titanium one. This did not improve things. I have taken it to a shop, but they just told me to "clean it really well", which I do, and at best the gun will work flawlessly for about 20 rounds, and then start exhibiting this behavior again.
I did some searches on the problem, and found others have had it too. So I tried these mods: http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/10/mkii-magazine-tweak.html http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=538733 Basically they describe the problem as being due to the magazine, so following their instructions I dremeled down the mag lips so that they are rounded instead of pointed. Perhaps I just did not dremel enough of it, but the problem has not gone away. I am close to giving up on this gun, but I am open to suggestions as how to fix this problem. |
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My bet is that the shop is right. I've retyped this enough times, that I should make a formal sticky topic about it someday. In the front of the chamber, inside the bore, where the rifling begins, lubricants and powder residue will bond to this area. Conventional bore cleaning methods will not remove the extreme build-up in some instances. (especially with high volume shooters who use the un-plated exposed lead ammo. The wax coating on this ammo is a large part of the blame) This wax will also build up (over time) on the inside front of your magazines, which will cause mis-feeds and other odd behavior. The wax will cause the tip of the bullets to actually drag on this surface, delaying proper feeding, and mistiming the feed process. (a similar thing happens in Ruger 10/22 magazines too, requiring disassembly and rigorous scrubbing) Colder weather as we have this time of the year, will exacerbate and magnify these problems. The wax stiffens and hardens as it cools. Reports of semiauto .22 failures and misfeeds are always more common in the wintertime. Carefully rotate/spin a conventional .22 bore brush in the chamber of the pistol, both directions, with a proper solvent. Vigorously scrub it, and then clean the bore as normal. Disassemble your magazines, and use a .22 bore brush to scrub the inside face of the mags, w/ a solvent. (where the tip of the bullets will ride) Ensure that the rest of of the pistol is cleaned and lubricated properly, and that you're using a fine oil for a lubricant. (like Remoil) If this isn't the problem, I'll be very suprised. However, inspect each part for defect, damage or extreme wear. Everything mechanical fails sooner or later, but most parts are very inexspensive, and easily replaced. Hope this helps, and welcome to AR15.com.  |
| Check the extractor––it may have become worn. I've had three extractors on my Ruger Mk. IIs wear down, causing the problems you're describing. I replaced the extractor with a Volquartsen Exact Edge extractor on all three last year and I have not experienced any problem since. |
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Take a look at the ejector. It could be bent or something. It is not an easy thing to move about but you never know. If it is sitting too low it could pop the empty case upwards and not out causing a stovepipe. A little bit of dirt would exacerbate things.
My MKII does not function for long when it is less than 40 degrees out. After about 50 rounds it starts short stroking. I just pop the bolt and wipe it off and go from there. |
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Someone posted a fix (on RFC, IIRC) for what sounded a lot like your problem. It involved taking a whisker off the front edge of the mag lip. It wasn't a wholesale removal of material and didn't affect feeding. It was more like adding a slight radius to the front edge of the lips.
He tracted his problem to extracted rounds bumping the mag lip and dislodging it from the extractor before it could reach the ejector. |
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Thanks for the suggestions thus far.
As I mentioned earlier, I have already tried smoothing down the edge of the factory magazines as instructed in this link: http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/10/mkii-magazine-tweak.html Since that did not resolve the issue, I have completely disassembled the pistol and given it a complete cleaning. BTW, this page has excellent instructions and pictures and was very helpful to me: http://www.1bad69.com/ruger/internals.htm I may yet purchase another magazine for the pistol just to compare it with my other two which are nearly 10 years old and very used. In the past I have used lead ammo, but now I am exclusively using plated ammo in all my .22's so as to cut down on the lead buildup issues. The range that I go to is indoors, and climate controlled so it is never lower than ~65 degrees and never hotter than ~75 degrees in there, so weather related causes are not applicable. I appreciate all the suggestions. I will post again after I go back to the range with updates. |
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Well, I took it to the range this evening and it jammed on both of my mags.
Since both of my mags are around 10 years old now, I'm going to try buying a new mag next. If that doesn't do it then I'm out of guesses, because I spent 3 hours cleaning it on Saturday and the damn thing sparkles like it's new but it's still jamming horribly. |
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This is driving me batty. What i am thinking is that you could try to diagnose things by assemblung it without the recoil spring and placing a empty case in the chamber, closing the bolt on it and observe what happens when you hand cycle it out slowly. You should be able to tell if you are getting a good bite with the extractor etc.
When you cleaned it did you take a toothpick or the like to the extractor notch on the breech face? I am not 100% certain on this but I do not think that thereshould be too much wear in that notch from the extractor hitting inside of it. How well does the bolt hold a empty case? |
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Quoted:
I am close to giving up on this gun, but I am open to suggestions as how to fix this problem. Don't give up on your Mark II. They are fine guns. Send it to Clark Custom and have them do (at a minimum) their Reliability Package on your pistol. Make sure that you send it to them clean. I just had them replace the sights, do the Reliability Job and Trigger Job, and stipple the front strap of my Mark II. It was well worth every penny. |
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I had the exact same jam a couple of years ago. Remove the bolt and the extractor. Look at the bolt face under where the extractor covers the bolt face. I had a small amount of carbon built up there. After scraping it off I had no more jams. The carbon wouldn't allow the extractor to get a good grip on the fired case and wouldn't eject it before the next round was trying to be loaded in the chamber. The empty stuck pointed straight out to the ejection port wedged in by the next loaded round. Mine did this with old and new mags, but it wouldn't jam every single time. After cleaning it doesn't jam at all.
Be sure to also clean the notch in the chamber face where the extractor goes when the bolt is closed. If all else fails replace the extractor. A couple of things to check. Will it extract a round when you run it by hand? Does it jam on every round? Jim |
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So as instructed, I manually cycled the action one round at a time to see what happens. The jam happens nearly every time. With me manually pulling back the bolt, the round will 1) eject normally, 2) eject INTO the receiver, or 3) not eject at all. In examining the process closely, it looks as if the ejector is not pushing the round out of the extractor claw. All I can think of is that perhaps this was bent ever so slightly the wrong way, and now is not functioning correctly. Several times I was able to pull the bolt all the way back and the round would still be sitting there attached to the bolt & extractor claw, with the ejector having done nothing.
Reading through this article has been helpful: http://www.1bad69.com/ruger/stovepipe.htm But I have already rounded off the two mags that I own and the problem persists. I have ordered another magazine just to be sure, but I suspect now that the problem is due to a bent ejector. I have repeatedly examined the bolt and all internal working parts for metallic deposits and I cleaned the gun vigorously with solvents and a metal wire tooth brush on Saturday, so that can't possibly be the problem anymore. In looking down the empty receiver, I can plainly see that the ejector looks fairly worn, and I'm not sure if this is normal, but whereas the right side lines up in the line of sight with the barrel chamber, the left side (the ejector itself) seems a little warped to the left and does not line up with the barrel. It almost looks like it would miss the shell of the round entirely. I may try to take some pics of this before attempting any further action. I also may wait for the arrival of the new magazine, as I am loathe to attempt bending the ejector rod. |
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Well, I disassembled the gun, and removed the barrel. Then put the bolt back in along with a live round and then manually cycled the action while viewing it from underneath. Viewing from this direction, I could plainly see that the ejector was not engaging the round and properly ejecting it.
So, I bent it back into place a little, then tested it. Then bent it a little more, and tested again until it seemed like it would line up right. Then I put the gun back together and loaded up a 10 round mag and manually cycled the action each time. It worked 10 for 10 on the first mag. So then I loaded up the second mag and tried again. Same deal. I think I may have fixed it. I'm pinning the blame on a bent ejector rod, which was not engaging the round. I'm going to take it back to the range tomorrow night and try to run some ammo through it, then I'll report back with the results. Wish me luck. 
BTW, this is the gun that I've been talking about: http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/yavicleus/guns/P1011386.jpg I'll be thrilled if I can get it working again, because it's super-accurate, and with my red-dot scope on it, I call it my lazergun. pew pew pew! |
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Quoted: Well, I disassembled the gun, and removed the barrel. Then put the bolt back in along with a live round and then manually cycled the action while viewing it from underneath. Viewing from this direction, I could plainly see that the ejector was not engaging the round and properly ejecting it. So, I bent it back into place a little, then tested it. Then bent it a little more, and tested again until it seemed like it would line up right. Then I put the gun back together and loaded up a 10 round mag and manually cycled the action each time. It worked 10 for 10 on the first mag. So then I loaded up the second mag and tried again. Same deal. I think I may have fixed it. I'm pinning the blame on a bent ejector rod, which was not engaging the round. I'm going to take it back to the range tomorrow night and try to run some ammo through it, then I'll report back with the results. Wish me luck. Wow, I haven't ever seen a bent ejector on a Ruger MKx before. That is a first. (always assumed it would break before bending, but haven't ever tested it) I hope you found the problem. Sure sounds like you have. Good luck sent. FWIW, the ejector should be true (parallel) with the bore.  |
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Well I took it to the range tonight. It still stove pipes on nearly every round.
I just don't get it. If I manually maneuver the bolt I can cycle through the entire mag with no malfunctions, but if I actually try to use the gun, it jams. I'm just going to wait a week for when my new magazine comes in, and then I'll try again. 
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Quoted: Well I took it to the range tonight. It still stove pipes on nearly every round. I just don't get it. If I manually maneuver the bolt I can cycle through the entire mag with no malfunctions, but if I actually try to use the gun, it jams. I'm just going to wait a week for when my new magazine comes in, and then I'll try again. Keep us posted please. If it weren't for the loony FFL laws, I'd ask you mail it to me, just so I could figure it out. But you can get it fixed for free from Ruger without the FFL transfer hassles. (Hope you do that next, if it isn't the mag) Glad you're trying a new mag. I've never modified any of mine, and have too many rounds to count sent down range. |
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Quoted: Quoted: But you can get it fixed for free from Ruger without the FFL transfer hassles. (Hope you do that next, if it isn't the mag) I would be careful not to send a Mark II into Ruger and wind up with a Mark III in return.  Is that what they do now? Hope that's not true |
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Quoted:
Is that what they do now?
Hope that's not true
A close friend (my shooting mentor) sent in his stainless Mark II (KMK-512) and rec'd a Mark III version in return. I refuse to ever send my Mark II (also a KMK-512) in to Ruger. I'd rather place a place like Clark Custom to work on it. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Is that what they do now? Hope that's not trueA close friend (my shooting mentor) sent in his stainless Mark II (KMK-512) and rec'd a Mark III version in return. I refuse to ever send my Mark II (also a KMK-512) in to Ruger. I'd rather place a place like Clark Custom to work on it. That's terribly important information IMO. I'd be furious if my pistol were altered that far.  |
| So sorry to hear about the OP problems with his Mark II. I've read a few comments on the Internet about getting the Mark II instead of the Mark III but I've been very happy with my Mark III Hunter. I've had my Mark III Hunter 6 7/8" fluted stainless since Nov. 2008 and it has been functioning flawlessly. Just to make sure I would have good performance with all the different ammo I use, I installed a Volquartsen Exact Edge extractor (even though the OEM extractor didn't have any problems). Good luck to the OP and hope you get your pistol's issues taken care of. |
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Quoted: Exactly ! Ruger is a bunch of asshats when it comes to what they think is safety. The people running it now seem to be more clueless than Bill Ruger was about hi-cap mags. Quoted: Quoted: Is that what they do now? Hope that's not trueA close friend (my shooting mentor) sent in his stainless Mark II (KMK-512) and rec'd a Mark III version in return. I refuse to ever send my Mark II (also a KMK-512) in to Ruger. I'd rather place a place like Clark Custom to work on it. That's terribly important information IMO. I'd be furious if my pistol were altered that far. |
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I haven't heard about them switching a MkII for a MkIII, but I have heard of people sending in their MkIIs to have a broken part replaced, and it coming back without their match trigger, etc. Some have had those parts in a seperate bag but some were flat missing.
Ruger flat will not sell a disconnector, so the pistol has to go back to them if it breaks. There are other parts that the various distributers can't sell that make it necessary to ship to Ruger. Jim |
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Quoted:
I haven't heard about them switching a MkII for a MkIII, but I have heard of people sending in their MkIIs to have a broken part replaced, and it coming back without their match trigger, etc. Some have had those parts in a seperate bag but some were flat missing. Ruger flat will not sell a disconnector, so the pistol has to go back to them if it breaks. There are other parts that the various distributers can't sell that make it necessary to ship to Ruger. IF (big if) I were ever to send my Mark II into Ruger, it would go with notarized instructions informing them of exactly what they are authorized to repair and what they were not authorized to do, and strict instructions to return MY property to ME if they disagree with any of that. I would rather just trust to Clark Custom to repair my gun. |
| What ammo are you using, your particular pistol used a match chamber and is tighter then the typical MKII. They are VERY prone to problems with cheap ammo. At least try some Federal automatch, or some better stuff before you pull your hair out. My friend has that exact same model and it's a PITA unless you use good more pricy ammo then the usually $15 per 500 stuff. His works fine with the fed automatch, anything cheaper and it turns into a jammomatic just like yours. |
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I still think it's your extractor, and not anything else. If the extractor doesn't hold the casing in during cycling, then the casing won't hit the ejector properly, and thus will likely not be thrown clear of the action in time for the next round to be fed into the chamber, causing stovepipe-type jams (where the spent casing is jammed above the fresh round, almost always requiring the magazine to be removed and bolt locked back and sometimes even a stick to poke things out to clear it).
The Volquartsen extractors are made from good steel, while the ones from Ruger have been known to wear out and cause jamming problems. I don't know how well the titanium extractors (from Power Custom?) work, however. |
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Well, the new magazine finally came in and I took the MK II to the range tonight, and it's still jamming. Still the same old deal: it's stovepiping.
So, I'm either going to turn it over to my local gunsmith and say "fix it" or ship it off to Ruger and have them fix it. I honestly don't care if they send me a MK III in return, I just want one that works. |
| did you try trimming the baseplates like the link suggested. i did that on my 6 mags and most of my jams went away in my mk2 slabside. i still get a couple jams a brick, but that is the nature of bulk ammo form wally world. trimming the base somehow lets the mag seat at the correcy depth for better feeding. number your mags, trim one and then track the jams to try and isolate the variables |
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Before you ship it check everything again. I still think it sounds exactly like the problem I had. When you pull the bolt out remove the extractor. I had a small amount of carbon on the bolt face under the extractor. I had to scrape it off- a brush wouldn't clean it. That solved my problem, which was stove-pipe jams. The carbon was hard.
Jim |
| Just send the pistol back to Ruger and have them go over it. Include a message saying that you don't want it to be retrofitted to be a Mark III. You could also send it to Clark Custom as another member suggested and have their reliability package done. I hope you don't give up on Ruger and good luck. |
| I think you stated you swapped out the Extractor with a V extractor ? I did the same thing on a 10/22 rifle. It came with the new spring. I had nothing but jams from then on out. The issue turned out to be the new spring supplied with the Extractor. It was out of spec. It was two short . I put the factory old spring back in and it's 100% now. I checked around and the short spring being too short was a common issue with the V Exact edge extractor set. A lot of people ordered new factory springs or put there old one back in. Problem solved. Maybe this is your issue..... Sounds like it. The action and mechanics on these pistols is really simple. But I know your getting frustrated with it also... Good luck WarDawg |