Posted: 3/23/2010 3:40:29 PM EDT
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Who makes it (other than the obvious Colt's)
I am starting to lust for one and wanted to hear the pros and cons about whats out there. |
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The only M1911 repros I know of (NOT M1911A1s) are Colt WWI, Colt 1918, and the USFA. The 1918 is the WWI with the inferior finish and no change to the roll marks, which makes it less historically accurate. Given the price, it would be wisest to snatch up the discontinued WWI before a few more years pass and the price difference between the two climbs, as it invariably will. I own two WWIs and have handled all 3 models. The USFA strikes me as a pistol that's 1.25 times better than Colt (if that much) at more than 2 times the price. In short I don't feel you get what you pay for with the USFA compared to the Colt.
Want a blaster, get a currently produced 1918. Want a good collector, get a WWI. Want to spend a lot of money, get a USFA |
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Okay seriously there is nothing "inferior" about the 1918. It is internally and structurally the same gun. The finishes are different as they are supposed to represent the different bluing that Colt used over the years. Some people want an example of a Black Army, as much as some want the Carbonia. If you can tell me one discernible difference between the two that helps the Carbonia to function better, I am all ears.
I have both, and like each for their own reasons. One not more than the other. The Carbonia looks good. The black army looks different, but cool also. ETA: and before anyone says "The roll marks are inaccurate"....Some of the first new black army's left the factory with the rampant colt at the rear of the slide. This did not change until sometime during 1918. |
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Okay seriously there is nothing "inferior" about the 1918. It is internally and structurally the same gun. The finishes are different as they are supposed to represent the different bluing that Colt used over the years. Some people want an example of a Black Army, as much as some want the Carbonia. If you can tell me one discernible difference between the two that helps the Carbonia to function better, I am all ears. I have both, and like each for their own reasons. One not more than the other. The Carbonia looks good. The black army looks different, but cool also. ETA: and before anyone says "The roll marks are inaccurate"....Some of the first new black army's left the factory with the rampant colt at the rear of the slide. I'll have to disagree a bit with you as the Carbonia Bluing isn't likely to be offered again at that pricepoint. It was a PITA to do and as "old school" as one can get unless you go for fire bluing. I mean a bone a charcoal mix and heat.......how cool is that. It has a incredible depth, I would have loved to see it on a polished 1911 myself, especially in the sunlight. Even on the surface of the 1911 reissue, it had hints of blues, purples and yellows depending on the light and angle. |
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Okay seriously there is nothing "inferior" about the 1918. It is internally and structurally the same gun. The finishes are different as they are supposed to represent the different bluing that Colt used over the years. Some people want an example of a Black Army, as much as some want the Carbonia. If you can tell me one discernible difference between the two that helps the Carbonia to function better, I am all ears. I have both, and like each for their own reasons. One not more than the other. The Carbonia looks good. The black army looks different, but cool also. ETA: and before anyone says "The roll marks are inaccurate"....Some of the first new black army's left the factory with the rampant colt at the rear of the slide. I'll have to disagree a bit with you as the Carbonia Bluing isn't likely to be offered again at that pricepoint. It was a PITA to do and as "old school" as one can get unless you go for fire bluing. I mean a bone a charcoal mix and heat.......how cool is that. It has a incredible depth, I would have loved to see it on a polished 1911 myself, especially in the sunlight. Even on the surface of the 1911 reissue, it had hints of blues, purples and yellows depending on the light and angle. You are only describing cosmetic differences which have no bearing on the function of the pistol. If we are talking about resale value, then I don't speak that language, as I do not sell my guns. I agree with you that the carbonia may have a more "traditionally desirable" finish. But the black army looks pretty close to an original black army, so some of us want both. Have you seen the black army repro in person? I think they look very cool. Just different, not better or worse. |
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Okay seriously there is nothing "inferior" about the 1918. It is internally and structurally the same gun. The finishes are different as they are supposed to represent the different bluing that Colt used over the years. Some people want an example of a Black Army, as much as some want the Carbonia. If you can tell me one discernible difference between the two that helps the Carbonia to function better, I am all ears. I have both, and like each for their own reasons. One not more than the other. The Carbonia looks good. The black army looks different, but cool also. ETA: and before anyone says "The roll marks are inaccurate"....Some of the first new black army's left the factory with the rampant colt at the rear of the slide. I'll have to disagree a bit with you as the Carbonia Bluing isn't likely to be offered again at that pricepoint. It was a PITA to do and as "old school" as one can get unless you go for fire bluing. I mean a bone a charcoal mix and heat.......how cool is that. It has a incredible depth, I would have loved to see it on a polished 1911 myself, especially in the sunlight. Even on the surface of the 1911 reissue, it had hints of blues, purples and yellows depending on the light and angle. You are only describing cosmetic differences which have no bearing on the function of the pistol. If we are talking about resale value, then I don't speak that language, as I do not sell my guns. I agree with you that the carbonia may have a more "traditionally desirable" finish. But the black army looks pretty close to an original black army, so some of us want both. Have you seen the black army repro in person? I think they look very cool. Just different, not better or worse. Yes I've seen and held the Black Army, for the same price [OK, about $100 more then I paid for my 1911 reissues] I had to pass as the finish was one of the things that I really liked about the 1911 reissue and set it apart at a glance. I really want to see Colt do a original hi polish 1911 with fire blue for the 100th. I WOULD buy one, damn the cost. And yes, it's "only" cosmetic but that cosmetic difference is amazing. It's like it's not even the same gun. |
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Okay seriously there is nothing "inferior" about the 1918. It is internally and structurally the same gun. The finishes are different as they are supposed to represent the different bluing that Colt used over the years. Some people want an example of a Black Army, as much as some want the Carbonia. If you can tell me one discernible difference between the two that helps the Carbonia to function better, I am all ears. I have both, and like each for their own reasons. One not more than the other. The Carbonia looks good. The black army looks different, but cool also. ETA: and before anyone says "The roll marks are inaccurate"....Some of the first new black army's left the factory with the rampant colt at the rear of the slide. I'll have to disagree a bit with you as the Carbonia Bluing isn't likely to be offered again at that pricepoint. It was a PITA to do and as "old school" as one can get unless you go for fire bluing. I mean a bone a charcoal mix and heat.......how cool is that. It has a incredible depth, I would have loved to see it on a polished 1911 myself, especially in the sunlight. Even on the surface of the 1911 reissue, it had hints of blues, purples and yellows depending on the light and angle. You are only describing cosmetic differences which have no bearing on the function of the pistol. If we are talking about resale value, then I don't speak that language, as I do not sell my guns. I agree with you that the carbonia may have a more "traditionally desirable" finish. But the black army looks pretty close to an original black army, so some of us want both. Have you seen the black army repro in person? I think they look very cool. Just different, not better or worse. Yes I've seen and held the Black Army, for the same price [OK, about $100 more then I paid for my 1911 reissues] I had to pass as the finish was one of the things that I really liked about the 1911 reissue and set it apart at a glance. I really want to see Colt do a original hi polish 1911 with fire blue for the 100th. I WOULD buy one, damn the cost. And yes, it's "only" cosmetic but that cosmetic difference is amazing. It's like it's not even the same gun. Won't argue with you about the Carbonia finish, it is VERY nice. Just not the same as a 1918 black army which has its own history, and therefore warrants its own collectible status |
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Won't argue with you about the Carbonia finish, it is VERY nice. Just not the same as a 1918 black army which has its own history, and therefore warrants its own collectible status The black army warrants its own collectible status, as an original. It may even warrant its own collectible status as a reproduction, but any apology, which you seem to be spending a little too much time doing for the gun is unnecessary. I think everybody made the point as to why it was inferior, and none of the arguments were on function. That said, the WWI was a painstakingly executed homage to the M1911 service pistol. The 1918 on the other hand was NOT a painstaking homage to a unique little run of these wartime weapons. It was an artful dodge to make money producing a hot-selling package, while pacifying angry Colt collectors who bought a "limited run" WWI and bitched that Colt was exceeding the production numbers at which all believed the weapon would stop. A lot of thought and work went into the finish and rollmarks of the WWI. By contrast, no thought whatsoever went into the 1918's rollmarks, and minimal thought went into the finish (expending half the effort to make the 1918 finish really look like the "Black Colts" back then like they did with the WWIs). The only thing that was a perfect homage to the "Black Colts" was the half-ass execution in which both of these pistols were made (outside of function) which stands in poetic symmetry to the way in which the originals came into being. If one wanted to make a reproduction celebrating the black pistol in its own right, they would have gone with the different rollmarks with the horse in the center of the slide, where it was known to be (despite a few early examples having the same rollmarks and the early examples), and more time would have been spent capturing the finish deviation which made the Black Colt noticeably different. As an owner of two WWIs and zero 1918s, I was not upset in the least when they made the transition, and I applauded Colt's cleverness in satisfying their business aims and the wishes of their previous customers. I am also sad to hear the 1918 was discontinued, as it would have been nice to see it as a production mainstay. Nevertheless, for $950-$1200 of a man's hard-earned dollars a WWI or a 1918 can be had. One is the originally intended limited pistol with more attention to detail on the finish and will command a higher price than the other despite the two functioning identically. Pay roughly the same and get more from X than you do Y. That is the textbook example of what inferior is, even if those variables mean little to you, they very likely mean a lot to the guy looking for a WWI repro, who will have to part with more than $1,000 of his hard-earned dollars. |
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Won't argue with you about the Carbonia finish, it is VERY nice. Just not the same as a 1918 black army which has its own history, and therefore warrants its own collectible status The black army warrants its own collectible status, as an original. It may even warrant its own collectible status as a reproduction, but any apology, which you seem to be spending a little too much time doing for the gun is unnecessary. I think everybody made the point as to why it was inferior, and none of the arguments were on function. That said, the WWI was a painstakingly executed homage to the M1911 service pistol. The 1918 on the other hand was NOT a painstaking homage to a unique little run of these wartime weapons. It was an artful dodge to make money producing a hot-selling package, while pacifying angry Colt collectors who bought a "limited run" WWI and bitched that Colt was exceeding the production numbers at which all believed the weapon would stop. A lot of thought and work went into the finish and rollmarks of the WWI. By contrast, no thought whatsoever went into the 1918's rollmarks, and minimal thought went into the finish (expending half the effort to make the 1918 finish really look like the "Black Colts" back then like they did with the WWIs). The only thing that was a perfect homage to the "Black Colts" was the half-ass execution in which both of these pistols were made (outside of function) which stands in poetic symmetry to the way in which the originals came into being. If one wanted to make a reproduction celebrating the black pistol in its own right, they would have gone with the different rollmarks with the horse in the center of the slide, where it was known to be (despite a few early examples having the same rollmarks and the early examples), and more time would have been spent capturing the finish deviation which made the Black Colt noticeably different. As an owner of two WWIs and zero 1918s, I was not upset in the least when they made the transition, and I applauded Colt's cleverness in satisfying their business aims and the wishes of their previous customers. I am also sad to hear the 1918 was discontinued, as it would have been nice to see it as a production mainstay. Nevertheless, for $950-$1200 of a man's hard-earned dollars a WWI or a 1918 can be had. One is the originally intended limited pistol with more attention to detail on the finish and will command a higher price than the other despite the two functioning identically. Pay roughly the same and get more from X than you do Y. That is the textbook example of what inferior is, even if those variables mean little to you, they very likely mean a lot to the guy looking for a WWI repro, who will have to part with more than $1,000 of his hard-earned dollars. So if I offered you mine for free, you'd turn away in disgust? Didn't think so. And consider this.....there are less 01918's (limited run of 4000) then there are 01911's. (~5000) Which makes the black army version more rare. 
"But...But...the Carbonia is so much more sought after, well over $1000...blah, blah, blah....." Carbonia Blue 01911 right here on the EE for $1000 You ride my ass for "apologizing" for an "inferior" weapon? John Moses Browning ought to personally remove your 1911 card until further notice. Cool story bro. |
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So if I offered you mine for free, you'd turn away in disgust? Didn't think so. And consider this.....there are less 01918's (limited run of 4000) then there are 01911's. (~5000) Which makes the black army version more rare.
"But...But...the Carbonia is so much more sought after, well over $1000...blah, blah, blah....." Carbonia Blue 01911 right here on the EE for $1000 You ride my ass for "apologizing" for an "inferior" weapon? John Moses Browning ought to personally remove your 1911 card until further notice. Cool story bro. JMB should remove my "1911 card?" Cool story bro? What are you, 11? Inferior does not mean worthless, nor does it even mean bad. If mention that a stock Series 70 repro is an inferior weapon to a mid-level Les Baer, does that mean I'd refuse a free one? Hell, I'd actually prefer the Colts knowing they don't offer the same thing (stock) as a Baer. What kind of stupid argument is that? Let's cut the bullshit right here... If your "super rare" 1918 is as good to you than your WWI, then I take it you would have no problem making a straight trade: your WWI for someone else's 1918 in like condition. After all, resale value doesn't equate to your gruff, macho, "I shoots 'em, not collects 'em" philosophy, and surely such a hardboiled guy wouldn't be collecting each of them for the pretty colors. I am quite sure someone here would be happy to accommodate you by facilitating that on this board. So, are you willing to back that BS up make a straight trade? Feel free to PM me the link to your WTT ad in the EE. I'll be right here holding my breath. |
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So if I offered you mine for free, you'd turn away in disgust? Didn't think so. And consider this.....there are less 01918's (limited run of 4000) then there are 01911's. (~5000) Which makes the black army version more rare.
"But...But...the Carbonia is so much more sought after, well over $1000...blah, blah, blah....." Carbonia Blue 01911 right here on the EE for $1000 You ride my ass for "apologizing" for an "inferior" weapon? John Moses Browning ought to personally remove your 1911 card until further notice. Cool story bro. JMB should remove my "1911 card?" Cool story bro? What are you, 11? Inferior does not mean worthless, nor does it even mean bad. If mention that a stock Series 70 repro is an inferior weapon to a mid-level Les Baer, does that mean I'd refuse a free one? Hell, I'd actually prefer the Colts knowing they don't offer the same thing (stock) as a Baer. What kind of stupid argument is that? Let's cut the bullshit right here... If your "super rare" 1918 is as good to you than your WWI, then I take it you would have no problem making a straight trade: your WWI for someone else's 1918 in like condition. After all, resale value doesn't equate to your gruff, macho, "I shoots 'em, not collects 'em" philosophy, and surely such a hardboiled guy wouldn't be collecting each of them for the pretty colors. I am quite sure someone here would be happy to accommodate you by facilitating that on this board. So, are you willing to back that BS up make a straight trade? Feel free to PM me the link to your WTT ad in the EE. I'll be right here holding my breath. Why not throttle it back a couple clicks there. 
Already have one of both AS I ALREADY SAID, so your little venture means nothing to me. Don't need two black army repros, just one of each as they are a SET for me. I'd have more to say to your smarmy little TROLL ass, but it would probably end in a thread lock and a ban for me, so I will let others decide the fate of this thread. I concede the interwebz today to you sir, you win this battle, but I'll be back.... 
And yes, I am 11......+20 
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Quoted: You ride my ass for "apologizing" for an "inferior" weapon? John Moses Browning ought to personally remove your 1911 card until further notice. Cool story bro. Originally Posted By WindRiver78: I'd have more to say to your smarmy little TROLL ass, but it would probably end in a thread lock and a ban for me, so I will let others decide the fate of this thread. I concede the interwebz today to you sir, you win this battle, but I'll be back.... And yes, I am 11......+20 This isn't GD. |